Discussion A Comment on the Prisoner's Dilemma

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Dragon God, Apr 9, 2017.

?

What will you do?

  1. Defect

  2. Cooperate

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Dragon God

    Dragon God {King of Peasants} {Tanya's Husbando}

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,862
    Likes Received:
    621
    Reading List:
    Link
    I posted this on /r/lesswrong, but they don't seem interested in replying so here it goes. God I'm going to hate myself for doing this; I really should be reading shouldn't I?

    Please don't reply to this thread if you meet one of the following:
    1. Needed Google to understand the thread title.
    2. Needed Google to understand the OP.
    3. Don't meet the Minimum Online Courtesy for Debate (MOCD).
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
  2. veen

    veen Active Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    9
    Reading List:
    Link
    wth is this?
     
    Silver Snake likes this.
  3. Mufarasu

    Mufarasu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,598
    Likes Received:
    1,850
    Reading List:
    Link
    Is this political? This seems political.

    Also, you know this is a novel website right?
     
    Silver Snake likes this.
  4. Aebriol

    Aebriol Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    94
    Reading List:
    Link
    You realize you got it wrong?

    It is supposed to be:
    S > P > T > R

    Best reward: neither defect.
    Second best: you defect, the other don't.
    Third best: both defect.
    Worst: you don't defect, the other defect.
     
    AMissingLinguist likes this.
  5. KTL

    KTL Down horrendous

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2016
    Messages:
    995
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Reading List:
    Link
    You can't tell me what to frikkin do.
     
  6. DocB

    DocB "I see you, little mouse! Run along"

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2015
    Messages:
    3,573
    Likes Received:
    8,110
    Reading List:
    Link
    Best reward is one defect- at least individually
    while thinking individually, yes i agreed in defect always even when when you know the other person answer it always improve your situation
    nevertheless this is under the assumption of no other variables scnerario, as soon as i know the other and if i feel reponsible for them then other possibilities appear as taking the complete fault etc, but that isn't the point of the OP
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2017
    Dragon God likes this.
  7. jw287962

    jw287962 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2015
    Messages:
    416
    Likes Received:
    187
    Reading List:
    Link
    Guys it's P>R>S>T... don't you know the alphabet?
     
    qwertzuiop and Astaroth like this.
  8. Ko

    Ko "The Corrupted Queen"

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2017
    Messages:
    1,310
    Likes Received:
    11,970
    Reading List:
    Link
    *quietly leaves*
     
    qwertzuiop, Lazriser and Suoh95 like this.
  9. drewjn

    drewjn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    712
    Likes Received:
    599
    Reading List:
    Link
    @Dragon God A quick question first, did you come across this because you played the Nonary games / Zero escape series?

    If you really want to bring this idea up, the most important factors have and always have been the group, the individuals within and the social factors involved. So, you need to clarify that a bit better as the only clues to that was your 'choice' referencing that you have only one other person with the same choice. You gave your own viewpoints and modus operandi, but you left the 'opponent' as a completely unknown entity. In addition, the punishment/threat is an extremely important issue to know as the more dangerous or threatening one would also decrease or increase your probability to bet on the other person. (minor edits were made for better clarification)

    So your question is unclear as you provided little background information, and the purpose of your question is also unclear as should we say that you are wrong, tell you that you are alright for being selfish (but in a Darwinian fashion), or have a philosophical debate with you about the choices (which is awkward as you missed the initial requirements of the prisoners' dilemma, the setting).
     
  10. Aebriol

    Aebriol Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    94
    Reading List:
    Link
    Woops, my mistake.

    Yeah, people always defect (as they should). It is in their best interest, even though cooperation would be better if they could coordinate.
     
  11. MangoGuy

    MangoGuy Rambling Mango

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    7,625
    Likes Received:
    8,697
    Reading List:
    Link
    I think I can see why there were no replies in that other place you posted this...
     
    Alixiron, Lazriser and Mufarasu like this.
  12. DarwenGwein

    DarwenGwein Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2016
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    177
    Reading List:
    Link
    I mean, why even call it the prisoner's dilemma if you aren't going to put the original hypothetical scenario? You know, "a year locked away if neither of you cooperate, but if you confess, you go free while they get 25 years. Of course, if I get confessions from both of you, you both get 10 years."
    Anyone involved in my criminal syndicate will be taught about this situation and instructed to not comply with officers and incriminate their peers, as it leads to the lowest total cost against the pair, even if each individually had a better option in confessing.
     
    drewjn and Astaroth like this.
  13. chencking

    chencking [Daolord Grammar Nazi]

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    6,075
    Likes Received:
    4,160
    Reading List:
    Link
    You have too many non-descriptive ill-defined variables for anyone to read through that post. Also, R > T > P > S (your variables not mine). That's the basics of the dilemma. Get that wrong and you're not even answering the right question
     
  14. pelaacr

    pelaacr Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Reading List:
    Link
    It's an economic problem.... if the prisoner have at least a minimum of contact before the decision they should cooperate, becauste it maximizes the total benefit...but (specially) because of delayed compensation usually they defect... the first one that betrays the other gets the big prize...
     
  15. AMissingLinguist

    AMissingLinguist [Not Here][Blank Sect][Nuffian #N]

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,297
    Likes Received:
    6,383
    Reading List:
    Link
    Huh, I guess I'm the loser. I was the only one to choose cooperate. Welp, hand me a death sentence.
     
  16. Solracmar

    Solracmar Zzzzzzz

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2016
    Messages:
    890
    Likes Received:
    384
    Reading List:
    Link
    I sort understand why they didn't care for your thread. ....
    What you want with it?
    If you can't even explain that how to debate?
    You want to talk about logic?
    If so you need to put your premise better...
    I hope that since you posted here it has something to do with a novel. If so you need to put the name chapter and etc so we can coment if not.......
     
  17. pelaacr

    pelaacr Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Reading List:
    Link
    The biggest total gain should be they both cooperate, the biggest unilateral gain shoud be one defects the other not, and the worst both of them defect...
     
  18. Suoh95

    Suoh95 King

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2015
    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    230
    Reading List:
    Link
    (y) Avi
     
    Ko likes this.
  19. Ko

    Ko "The Corrupted Queen"

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2017
    Messages:
    1,310
    Likes Received:
    11,970
    Reading List:
    Link
    Thank you *wink* You can always come and admire me.
     
    Suoh95 likes this.
  20. Dragon God

    Dragon God {King of Peasants} {Tanya's Husbando}

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,862
    Likes Received:
    621
    Reading List:
    Link
    T > R > P > S

    That's the correct relationship of the payoffs. Don't know how I screwed that up.

    You guys both got it wrong.

    If R had the highest payoff, it wouldn't be a dilemma; cooperation would be the obvious, instant and immediate choice by any two rational agents.

    T has the highest payoff; that's what makes it a dilemma.