LCD Acquiring Talent in a Dungeon

Discussion in 'Latest Chapter Discussion' started by Zhen, Mar 11, 2017.

  1. mrttao

    mrttao Well-Known Member

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    it is a good question and I too wonder. it is worthy to experiment on this.

    In floor 5 he discovered there is a hunger and thirst mechanic, so there is that limit at least. if there are other limits they have not been discovered yet
     
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  2. Vincent1873

    Vincent1873 Well-Known Member

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    I guess their health will probably start falling once it bottoms out or something.
     
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  3. mrttao

    mrttao Well-Known Member

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    Probably, it is a good question you asked, and I am also curious. it is definitely worthwhile to experiment with this
     
  4. Vincent1873

    Vincent1873 Well-Known Member

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    Seems like an easy work around though. Eat a full meal before you go to sleep(which I'm assuming he didn't if he's that hungry after 2-3 hours), and pack a bit to eat in one of your bags. I'd have probably gone with some granola bars or something myself rather than stew but I guess she was trying to show off or something. Also wouldn't stew increase thirst?
     
  5. Radon Stone

    Radon Stone Well-Known Member

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    The relative safety isn't something that's known. Some magic text claims your safe? No reason to trust anything 100% in that place so early on. That's a rather aggressive stance to take, people aren't stupid because they don't rationalize things at the same speed. I don't exactly see how the MC is inconsistent anyways. At each end of the floors he was very exhausted and wanted to get the hell out. He could be far more comfortable as well to think out his next steps in a place he feels safer. Now he has a place to take a moment and he is grinding up some talents.
     
  6. Radon Stone

    Radon Stone Well-Known Member

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    Your own thinking and your expectations for him to think like you do is the argument. Level of comfort and desire to train things at different times are unique to the MC. Because you choose to do something doesn't obligate anyone to figure it out as fast as you do or have a set way of doing it.
     
  7. Radon Stone

    Radon Stone Well-Known Member

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    The strength of the sword is hardly the point I'm making. Its its usefulness when compared to the Ravenous fist tech is. He can arguably kill better with a full force punch with that tech, which he does later on, than trying to behead someone or impale them when they too are enhancing themselves when you have crap sword handling. And level 1 or 2 with the sword is doubtful enough to overshadow the fist tech.
     
  8. Vincent1873

    Vincent1873 Well-Known Member

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    I can see the argument behind not thinking of grinding when your hand has been cut off. However if you are the type of person who grinds after losing a hand then you're probably not the sort of person to care about being exhausted after finishing a floor.

    For me being stupid would come into play after you go home, think about the dungeon, come back, and do nothing. They have an entire day to plan out talents to grind in the dungeon. If you don't have a plan at that point then you're stupid.

    He only kill someone after punching them in the head or throat. Any hit with a sword will put them down. Even one or two levels gives you knowledge about basic attacks. Which one is more effective will probably depend on the situation. It doesn't excuse him not trying to use the sword at all or not using the sword when it's clearly more appropriate for the situation he's in.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
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  9. Radon Stone

    Radon Stone Well-Known Member

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    I more see that as a writers flaw than the actual character. Comes across as an outlier. I get the point that it's better to go in with a plan to grind a few things and test but I can assume he has far more than grinding skills in his head. We as readers can easily make that decision but for him this is reality changing before his very eyes. Somethings in his head won't be functioning as clearly without a little time passing.
     
  10. mrttao

    mrttao Well-Known Member

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    No, that is your strawman.
    And my argument is that the MC is inconsistent on those

    The MC has first articulated verbally his desire to grind, after articulating the desire to grind he demonstrated it by, when bleeding to death, decided to withhold treatment from himself. Stopping to "think things through" and deciding he should grind PAIN RESISTANCE by smashing his bleeding chopped off stub against a wall until his HP is very low and then go down. Then he suddenly forgets about the whole grinding thing... until suddenly some 10 chapters later he suddenly remembers it again and starts grinding like he explicitly stated he would do.
    This is called "inconsistent character"

    You have realized that you are completely and utterly incapable of disproving the factual argument above. So you are take the completely unrelated fact that "mrttao would choose to grind", and you use it as the basis of a strawman where you argue that I am projecting, thus dismissing the entire argument I made about inconsistent character via an ad hominem attack (you shouldn't listen to mrttao's theory of character inconsistency because he is projecting).

    In short, you are arguing in bad faith and I am done wasting my time on you
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
  11. Radon Stone

    Radon Stone Well-Known Member

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    I guess I missed that point. His actions during the "bloody stump" punching is an outlier since it's so far off from how he behaves after that. Could chalk that up to the writer. My disagreement with you comes from the view that someone is mentally retarded if they aren't figuring out the way to go is by constantly grinding.
     
  12. Radon Stone

    Radon Stone Well-Known Member

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    Why would it force them down? They aren't normal humans anymore and you can't tell what kind of talents others are grinding. Anyone could have higher pain tolerance or stabbing resistance or some tech for disarmament. And I'm not excusing him ignoring the sword. I'm saying the sword is a lesser force compared to his other resources at this time.
     
  13. heroeric

    heroeric Well-Known Member

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    The only skills that he has that he could grind after mapping out the entire floor and killing all of the enemies is pain resistance and limit break. For pain resistance since the level is so high it requires a lot of experience to level it up and he would also have to do more damage to himself since he is already used to the pain so it would be hard to level up.

    Also when he finished the 2nd floor he had finished a hard fight so he was probably low on health so it wouldn't be a good idea to grind pain resistance or limit break.

    On the third floor he should also have been pretty damaged at the time and ended up planning to try the medicine he found then go to the next floor. One of the medicines ended up healing him but him not grinding could be explained that due to already having planned to go to the next floor after trying the medicines so he might have gone to the next floor without thinking about it.

    On the fourth floor he was suffering from bleeding damage so it would be a good idea to go to the next floor so that he could be healed
     
  14. mrttao

    mrttao Well-Known Member

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    1. There are many more skills he could grind. Starting in level 5 he starts grinding english, linguistics, math, and so on. One the 1st floor he started grinding map making.
    Not to mention practical things like fighting related skills.

    2. You know what else is hard? punching your bleeding stump against the wall repeatedly to grind pain. He has also been meticulously mapping every single inch of every single level for that mapping XP. So the MC is both extremely hardcore about his grinding and extremely meticulous. Which is very much in character for him to injure himself for pain resistance XP or to grind limit break. Especially considering limit break is his big trump card
     
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  15. Vincent1873

    Vincent1873 Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe "stabbing resistance" is a talent. I believe that they probably have a Durability stat and increasing that several times would lead to them being more resistant. Maybe a technique like the healing factor but a talent? What you seem to be forgetting is that they are more or less still normal humans. Other than the completely hax skills like regeneration their stats at this point are only around the level of very talented people in reality. Pain tolerance doesn't stop you from being injured. We've seen nothing of the sort as far as disarming people is concerned. Might as well say they might have a talent to make people's arms fall off. We know that people can survive one of his punches. We don't know that they can survive a hit from the sword. Other than the regenerating girl.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
  16. SleepyFox

    SleepyFox Well-Known Member

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    He couldn't bring books or anything else from the real world before floor 5 though, so there was limits on what he could do. On the sword vs fist argument, I imagine he's a lot more confident in his fists than his swordplay. The fist technique he got isn't as simple as punching, it's the equivalent of him training in it for years, a master boxer beats a sword noob any day.

    What he's done is already very impressive, can you imagine the amount of stress you would feel in that kind of situation? One day you're worrying about school and your social life, the next you're exploring a dungeon filled with monsters and 'comrades' that want to kill you. It isn't a game, the pain he feels is real, you make it sound like him grinding pain resistance is as easy as pressing a button but it's not, the higher his pain tolerance level, the more pain he has to experience in order to level it up.

    In order to get the punching talent he had to fight several enemies, thus in order to get a swordsmanship talent he would have to fight several enemies with a sword. Considering he's fighting for survival and any wrong move could result in him being kicked out, it's no wonder he chooses to use his fists. Against the big giant guy, it was an extreme situation, maybe it would have been better to use the sword but under the circumstances can you honestly say you could keep calm and think what the best way to deal with it would be? Until then, he had solved all his problems with his fists, it's not unrealistic for him to attack with his fists at that point. Moreover, as soon as realised it was useless, he switched to the bottles of poison.

    The only problem I have is that he hasn't cut himself, then used his shirt or something to bandage the wound. Sure he might not have thought of it, but it seems obvious considering the number of times he's almost bled out.
     
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  17. Vincent1873

    Vincent1873 Well-Known Member

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    Debatable. If you took the best boxer in the world right now and put him in a fight against Random Joe with a sword then it's debatable who would win. Let alone someone who actually does know how to use a sword.
    12. He gained the talent after killing 12 enemies. If all he needs to do is defeat 12 mobs to get the talent then that's incredibly easy.
    I believe his stats are helping to keep calm. If you're still panicking on the forth floor then perhaps you should give up.
     
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  18. SleepyFox

    SleepyFox Well-Known Member

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    I am wholeheartedly confident that if you give me a sword, I would stand no chance against the best boxer in the world. Like, this isn't even an argument.
    It's only a talent though? All it does is increase 2 or 3 stats by 0.1 or maybe even less. It doesn't help him use the sword.
    There's a difference between fighting a small, skinny goblin thing and a massive goliath mutant that can tear off your limbs and swallow them whole :/
     
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  19. GamingIce

    GamingIce 『Holder of the Ring of Promise』『RPG Nerd』

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    You guys are still on this?

    Has anyone even considered that boxing wouldn't be good against a sword because it was made purely for fighting other boxers? It relies more on small pivots and blocks which would do no good against a guy swinging a sword...

    Look for someone who's trained to disarm people, because reach can mean a lot in a fight.
     
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  20. Vincent1873

    Vincent1873 Well-Known Member

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    This is assuming that the average joe is in decent shape and not ridiculously fat or something. It comes down entirely to the first swing. If you hit the boxer then you win. If you miss then you lose.
    Helping you use the sword is exactly what it does. It's literally a talent. Gaining the talent makes you talented in using the sword.
    Well, I would have thought of it. I'd have been training with the sword specifically for situations where I didn't want to or dare to box things. So it would be the exact situation I was training the sword for.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017