Beta and Alpha tags

I was just saying because tags we have now have a pretty clear meaning when you see them but alpha and beta seem pretty subjective and if it has to do with character traits we probably already have tags to describe them that are more easily understood.

 

Then what happens when that mc changes? When the mc changes from beta to alpha, what do you do then? Some novels will indeed have some mcs acting like cowards in the beginning but when character growth kicks in they will change and even then people will still argue whether that person can truly be considered an alpha or not

 

We put a lot of work cleaning up those tag

 

That's is no alpha or beta.
It's called: Conflict Resolution Strategy
Basically, by the degree of assertiveness (concern for self) and empathy (concern for others), there are 5 style:

1. Avoidance conflict style - ignore the bullying, act as if it never happen (none assertiveness, none empathy)
2. Yielding conflict style - accept the bully demand (low assertiveness, high empathy)
3. Conciliation conflict style - compromise with the bully (mid assertiveness, mid empathy)
4. Cooperation conflict style - find a way so the bully stop bullying by open negotiation or other methods (high assertiveness, high empathy)
5. Competitive conflict style - Beat the Bully - AMERICAN STYLE! (high assertiveness, low empathy)

Usually, Asian culture demands the children to do Strategy number 1, 2, or 3.
While the Western usually tell the children to do Strategy number 5.
Strategy number 4 was usually obtained from education or training.

 

Haaa... last time I'll explain this to you and I'll make it simple and clear. Extremely simple

You can define what an alpha female MC is. Yet can't define an alpha male, beta male, and beta female. You understand one but refuse to acknowledge your own views and apply to an opposite gender.

All of this is irrelevant when highlighting the fact that the person in question(you) has a flawed view. Again, you state clear definition to one section and state that the other three can't be defined.

But instead of trying to lead a horse to water and trying to make it drink I'll get back on topic. I suggest instead of "alpha" and "beta" tags we use the vndb tag definition as a basis and move from there

https://vndb.org/g524 What most would call a beta
https://vndb.org/g692 What most would call an alpha

 

People here are worried about some kind of tag wars, when I'm worrying that it'll open a can of worms most people wouldn't like to touch because of these kind of terms.

Not disagreeing with you there, mind. It is definitely better than beta and alpha. It's just that you don't tend to see, for example, characters that act like scooby doo, and most want a tag to really show off which MC is more proactive and which is more reactive, I think, and the cowardly tag in particular can give the wrong idea. or maybe they just want to see which mc beds more women, after all.

Using Alpha and Bete to determine this is a really bad idea, though.

 

This is the problem in itself. I have not seen a single novel that the MC stayed a "pussy" for the majority of the story. If you can give an example that would fit the definition, you are more than welcome to give one.

 

I think we need to make a tag:
Sexual MC and Celibate MC.
And solve the problem of horny teenagers who wanted to see if their MC banged some poor sob or not.

 

I acknowledge it as an extreme, not as something we as a community to define in novels. Work down till it's something we can agree upon.

I'll find a decent example and come back to you later

 

I think it's a bad idea, it makes me think of the yaoi omegaverse series'.

 

How would you describe the mc of Your and My Asylum in that case?
He was bullied but didn't go to the gym instead deceived a plan to fight back and end broking the mind of the ringleader of the bullying but he don't really show any aspect of an alfa to me

 

Or we go by what literally every mod that posted in the thread said, and don't use the tag at all! \(^^)/

Tags need to be understandable at a glance, the definition is there just to clear confusions.

Instead of being extremely rude to others for no reason, perhaps it would be better to try and actually do something meaningful? Like thinking of how the tags would apply on the context of NU? Instead of trying to think of how they apply on the context of Visual Novels, which is completely different?

Both problems are kinda similar tbh... >.>

I think Adult Genre and the R-18/Rape tags are plenty for that though...

 

Alright.

Is it the fact that jap mcs don't "bed" the women you want this tag? Or the fact they are too nice to everyone including some antagonists?

 

http://www.novelupdates.com/stag/cowardly-protagonist/
http://www.novelupdates.com/stag/dense-protagonist/

http://www.novelupdates.com/stag/harem-seeking-protagonist/

 

If its too nice to everyone including enemies is already included in naive protagonist, right?

 

Rude? May I give you an example of rudeness?
"Don't F****ING cut off my lines especially the crucial line as shown below:"
this was in bold and in red. Instead of adding your two pennies, maybe you should of let it end??? I'm pretty sure we both non-verbally(textually) agreed to do so.
Edit: well shit she responded...

No. NOT AT ALL. I want that to be clear.
If it was as simple as that it could be cleaned by having a stricter age rating system

 

Alright I will wait for your example then.

 

For a beta, allowing others to bully you is not a phase, it tends to be everywhere in a novel. For example, they'll often accept unnecessary and undeserved abuse.
In The Legend of Randidly Ghosthound there was a character who exclusively negged the MC. That was literally the entire character for many chapters. She would show up and start insulting him and undermining his authority at any given chance. Despite the fact that this girl was showing absolutely no respect for the MC, he just took the abuse without complaint. Clearly beta behavior. Now, that's not to say alphas don't tolerate any criticism or insults. You can insult an alpha all you want, but you must respect them.
That phase of the story passed, yet later in the story you see it manifest over an over again. A notable example was when his trainer/master/whatever lashed out at him and broke his bones. It was entirely undeserved and the master even acknowledged it was undeserved in a later PoV monologue. How did the MC respond? He accepted it. So, you see, the "bullying" phase never ends for a beta.

Fair enough.

You'd probably need a separate tag for that.

We're talking about a more general way of life, while this is more specific to conflict itself. I understand Alpha and Beta are not exactly scientific terms, but I'm using them as placeholders for a more generalized concept of whether or not a person demands respect(and/or works towards a future where they will be respected) or passively accepts disrespect.

 

Uh.
Alpha protagonist and Beta protagonist?
I'm really up for it, cause after like, what, 2 novels? You'll know what each mean.