Cleaning up tags on NU V2.0

Discussion in 'Novel Updates Site Discussion' started by marine1corps, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. Alixiron

    Alixiron Demon King

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    Non-human protagonist
     
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  2. Kemm

    Kemm Custom title

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    The issue lies in the specifity of the term. "Netorare" is the passive form of "netori", which means "to woo someone else's wife/girlfriend", so it would be by definition "to have your wife/girlfriend wooed from you", and as a genre both usually play in the form of "blackmail rape", as mentioned. I opened it to include "inverse" forms and added the "often, but not always" because the other ways they can play are plain rape, trickery and guilttrip or exploit of maternal/paternal instincts. The active role of the stealing part and the gradual change from disliking/reluctance to total acceptance/infatuation of the stolen part is what differentiates this pair from "adultery".

    If I have to reword it to have it look "less detailed", it would be something like:

    Netorare: the protagonist or a love interest of the protagonist enters forcibly into a physical relationship with a third party and comes to like it over time, thus either cheating or breaking the original coupling. If the protagonist is the one doing the seducing, use "Netori" instead. If there's no evolution from unwillingness to infatuation, use "Adultery" instead.
     
  3. MangoGuy

    MangoGuy Rambling Mango

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    Aye. this sounds better!! Good work there!! @runsing this looks good right?

    That is a valid point. Currently, it has been put on the hold-for-now list. There are some deliberations going on about how to merge the tags regarding monsters, or how to separate them.
    Also, i would like to know your opinion regarding monster vs. fantasy creature. Which sounds better for which one?
    For example, currently we have tags for dwarf,goblins, elves and what not which can be called monsters or fantasy creatures. Which are monsters and which are fantasy creatures? Or is there a better way to classify them?

    could you please write a definition for netori on similar setting as the definition of netorare? And also, if you can, one for netrase. I myself know very little about these tags, so..Hope you can find the time to do it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2017
  4. LaDyViL

    LaDyViL New Member Staff Member

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    @Kemm

    Netorare: If there's no evolution from unwillingness to infatuation, use "Adultery" instead.

    I don't understand this part. Afaik, netorare doesn't involve emotional changes from hating it to liking it. That falls under netori, isn't it?
     
  5. Alixiron

    Alixiron Demon King

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    Monsters are those creatures which attack humans without any provocation.
    Fantasy Creatures are those creatures/races which are widely known to be an integral part of a fantasy world i.e. pretty much all fantasy novels have them for example elves,dwarves etc
     
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  6. MangoGuy

    MangoGuy Rambling Mango

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    I see. So werewolves and the ilk come under monsters, and not fantasy creatures? Cu in a way they do. I am guessing you are inclining more towards monsters are violent & dunb while fantasy creatures are more intelligent?
     
  7. Blitz

    Blitz ⛈️ awakened from the reverie❄️

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    Theres also magic beasts
    Beasts
    Mythical beasts

    Actually we've been discussing for a while on how to sort these
     
  8. Kemm

    Kemm Custom title

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    Since all tags come from the same verb, the base structure may be kept.

    Netori: the protagonist forces into a physical relationship a love interest who is already into a relationship with a third party, and the love interest comes to like it over time, thus either cheating or breaking with their original partner. If the protagonist is the one having their partner seduced, use "Netorare" instead. If there's no evolution from unwillingness to infatuation, use "Adultery" instead.

    Netorase: the protagonist or a love interest of the protagonist encourages their partner to cheat on him, either by asking their partner or by having someone else seduce or rape their partner. The intention behind it may range anywhere from a fetish to childmaking when there's some issue in that regard for the couple. If the one left out is not supportive, use "Netorare" if the cheating part is unwilling at the start but comes to like the situation or "Adultery" when not.

    In short, the base "netori" is the protagonist commiting forced adultery while at the same time gradually seducing their adulterous partner, the passive "netorare" is having that done to them while causative "netorase" is plotting and achieving self-netorare. If you want to rephrase "netorase", the extent of its scope is the following:

    • the partner may or may not know about the plot.
      • if they know, they may or may not be supportive of it, and may or may not come to like it.
    • different from the other two, it's not neccessary for the "stolen one" to start liking their situation.
    • the one being "stolen from" may be encouraging their partner (e.g. asking them to cheat), encouraging the third party (e.g. hiring someone to rape their partner) or encouraging both.
    • a story can start as netorare but develop into netorase after the one being cheated finds out if they realize they like it and start either participating as a mastermind or creating situations that facilitate the cheating.
    ... or in short, it's like swapping partners, but the one asking for the swapping chooses their right (or left) hand as their new partner.
     
  9. Alixiron

    Alixiron Demon King

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    Yes
     
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  10. MangoGuy

    MangoGuy Rambling Mango

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    I see. Opinion noted. Now we just have to wait....there are bunch of tags that are based around monsters and beasts and stuff, and the mods are furiously fighting debating over it. We will have to wait and see.
     
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  11. Kemm

    Kemm Custom title

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    Like I said, "netori" is active: the protagonist is the one that "steals" partners. "Netorare" is exactle the same as "netori", but seen from the other side. There are three parts in a netori/netorare situation: the cheater, the cheated and the one cheating with. If seen from the POV of the one cheating with, the active form of the verb is used, and thus it's "netori", while if seen from the POV of any of the other two the passive form is used, thus "netorare". The same things that apply for one apply from the other.

    More in detail: "netori" is the "noun form" (just to call it something, since it's in fact a verb tense that indicates "finished action") of the verb 寝取る (netoru), which means "to steal another's spouse or lover" and it's composed from 寝 (to sleep) and 取る (to take); "netorare" is the "noun form" (again the same) of the passive form of the same verb (japanese verbs form passives by attaching "-are(ru)", and thus it means "having one's spouse or lover stolen". The same way you turn from passive to active by exchanging subject and object, you change from "netori" to "netorare" by changing the POV, being otherwise the exact same thing.
     
  12. Ddraig

    Ddraig Frostfire Dragon|Retired lurker|FFF|Loved by RNG

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    Monster : beasts that lack intelligence OR may or may not be intelligent lifeforms that do things which are essentially opposite to human morals (Werewolves and Golems would be considered monsters if they do not have a well-defined tribe (like orcs) or are boss_monsters or mindless killing machines)
    Mythical beast : beasts who are extremely rare or form the core of the myths/lore of the story OR are extremely powerful fantasy creatures that have human or above intellect
    Beasts : Beasts that have nothing to do with magic or a fantasy world
    Magic beasts : (fantasy creatures) beasts who can use magic
    Fantasy creatures : Creatures that can only be found in a fantasy world and may or may not possess magical powers, may or may not be killing machines (I feel this is the broadest tag that can include many other tags)

    Most of these tags overlap with each other and can be ambiguous. I think another way to classify this tags is to use them as per what the story defines these lifeforms as. (Eg - Pokémon would be considered fantasy creatures(I don't think this needs to be explained why) as well as monsters (they are pocket monsters afterall))

    A suggestion - Maybe arrange tags in a hierarchy?
     
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  13. Blitz

    Blitz ⛈️ awakened from the reverie❄️

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    I feel like we can merge beasts and magic beasts so we'll have 3 major categories.
    Fantasy creatures
    Monsters
    Magic beasts(temp name)
    According to the defs @Alixiron gave.
     
  14. Ddraig

    Ddraig Frostfire Dragon|Retired lurker|FFF|Loved by RNG

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    Then one more tag will be needed as
    Fantasy creatures(change this to fantasy races) would include intelligent and/or humanoid races
    Monsters would include unintelligent (is that a word?) lifeforms and extremely skewed morals kind of creatures
    Magic beasts(temp) would include magical/mythical creatures (Change magic beasts to something else)
    Normal beasts(temp) the normal beasts like dogs, cats, horses etc without any supernatural powers
     
  15. Alixiron

    Alixiron Demon King

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    Also Reincarnated as a Monster tag
     
  16. Alixiron

    Alixiron Demon King

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    What are the differences between beastkin, animal characteristics and demi-human ? The three of them seem to be indicating the same thing
    Beastkin - Beastkin are creatures that are half human half beast, an example would be things like Cat girl, bunny girls.
    Animal characteristics - This tag is to be used when there are characters in the story that aren't fully human, instead are part human part animal. One example would be Cat girls.
    Demi-human - Individuals who are part animal, part human.
     
  17. LaDyViL

    LaDyViL New Member Staff Member

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    Don't take the definifions as definite. All defs are opened for public edits until it's been locked.

    The same thing with tags, they are created by the readers, sometime without checking for existing tags.

    iirc, beastkin are meant to describe the race, be it protag or his significant companions ie Shield bro. Animal characteristics on the other hand are used when the setting does not involve a fantasy world with the race.

    Need better def for those.
     
  18. Kemm

    Kemm Custom title

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    Actually, demi-human are non-human humanoid intelligent races, like beastfolk, elves, dwarves, halflings... as well as their half-human crossbreeds (and crossbreeds between them).
     
  19. MangoGuy

    MangoGuy Rambling Mango

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    Make the def of appearance changes gender neutral. Actually, is this tag to be used for the ugly-beauty kind of changes, or for some other kind of appearance changes?
     
  20. LaDyViL

    LaDyViL New Member Staff Member

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    Appearance Changes Tag is to be used when the main protagonist experiences drastic appearance changes compared to how he was at the start of the story.

    Changed he to s/he. Some questions though, Is this change permanent?