Cleaning up tags on NU V2.0

Discussion in 'Novel Updates Site Discussion' started by marine1corps, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. Action

    Action Joseph DeCamp - Farewell

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    For non-social protagonists, there is the loner tag, which is defined as:
    This tag is to be added if the protagonist of a series is referred to as a loner by the author. Here, loner refers to someone who is generally not social. Note that this is not the same as Anti-Social Protagonist tag.

    So if antisocial were to be redefined as "someone who is generally not social", I think it'd be redundant and create superfluous overlap with the loner tag.

    If the antisocial protagonist definition is wrong, then I'd suggest just merging it with the loner tag. If it's right, then I suggest renaming it to sociopath protagonist to avoid confusion.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017 at 1:21 AM
  2. brasca123

    brasca123 『Hell's Trainee Manager』

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    Oh... This one missed my radar, I hadn't seen the Loner Protagonist tag...

    Hmmm... Somehow, there is something itching on me about it though... As if Loner Protagonist and Anti-social were kept separate on purpose... I'm unsure if it's just a feeling of if it was an actual discussion though...

    For now, I think it should be indeed merged, but wait for a mod's take on it.
     
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  3. MangoGuy

    MangoGuy Rambling Mango

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    The tags were meant to be different. The def is off. RL got to me before I could get a chance to do it. Please suggest a def.
     
  4. LaDyViL

    LaDyViL 「Bleeding Blob」 Staff Member

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    *poke @MangoGuy and @brasca123 to search past convo of it....coughnvm lemme just summon them all @runsing @marine1corps @BlancFrost @Lord Blitz @NZPIEFACE @null *

    I think I remember past posts about it but ughh the thoughts of having to search that many posts is...

    I don't agree with the definition.

    Anti-social Protagonist: This tag is to be used when the Protagonist of the story (whether male or female) exhibits the traits of the Antisocial personality disorder.

    That's just repeating the tag in its definition. It needs a tighter and more precise definition.

    Somehow I feel like Loner and Anti-social Protagonist covers the same thing...:hmm:
     
  5. null

    null Procrastinator Extraordinarie

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    According to dictionary, anti-social branch into 2 = sociopath (or Antisocial personality disorder) and unsociable loner.
    For example , what in Mushoroku Alice is sociopath and in EER is unsociable loner.

    There is 2 option = merge them into anti social protagonist tag and rewrite definition to include both or make sociopath tag and keep loner tag.
     
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  6. null

    null Procrastinator Extraordinarie

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    Light / mild sexual content tag wont fit that novel.

    gang bang scene and mc enemy gave sex drug to an actress and mc

    Tagging this novel is tricky , you must finish the novel to put correct tag but that would make the tag full of spoiler.
    This is harem story as you can see in the genre , I'm going to remove affair because of that.
    Having relationship with another person on your harem technically doesnt count as affair , adultery nor cheating :notlikeblob:
     
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  7. MangoGuy

    MangoGuy Rambling Mango

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    The affair tag refers more to the harem member rather than the guy(typically). And it is different from the harem as it gives us more idea about the harem member.
     
  8. Lord Blitz

    Lord Blitz Fluffy Lightning

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    Also Its an affair if its willingly I think and not forced. Not sure
     
  9. Molen

    Molen New Member

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    after alot of going back and forth in tag list... i demand a way to search a tag!
    just kidding

    these are some tags that i think need some work:

    swordsman : Where the Main character uses a sword to fight. AND possess skills in swordsmanship
    swordswoman : A woman who wields a sword as their main weapon.
    those two need to be combined somehow, a sword user maybe?
    if there is a swordmanship tag, why there is not spearmanship, axemanship, etc tags? it is weird

    wizard : The main character (or their main partner) is skilled in magic or has magical powers. "Wizard" may also refer to an occupation centered around magic. Wizards are usually male and may also be called sorcerers or magicians. The use of magic and/or presence of wizards should be a major plot element in the story.
    witches : The main character (or their main partner) is skilled in magic or has magical powers. "Witch" may also refer to an occupation centered around magic. Witches are usually female and may also be called a sorceress or magician. The use of magic and/or presence of witches should be a major plot element in the story.

    these two tags are just like swordsman/swordswoman tags, it needs to be combined. if we use these "magic related job name" as a tag name, at some point there will be sorcerer, druid, warlock, shaman, etc that will have similar description (skilled in magic or has magical power). it needs to be combined somehow. and why only the mc or main partner listed there? why not use the "The main character themselves don't necessarily need to have this ability for the tag to work." from psyhcic power tag description instead

    Strong To Stronger
    this tag is a bit weird... need to be reworded

    spiritual power : A type of energy that is used to do supernatural feats, depending what novel it from. Like magic/mana or qi/ki.
    magic : Tag is to be used ONLY if the protagonist of the series can use Magic (definition may vary based on novel). If the series has multiple protagonists, only use this tag if having Magic is a prominent feature of one of them.

    these two tags definition are a bit... weird? it is as if one of them is a duplicate of the other.
    magic can do supernatural things, it can be considered spiritual power. but does magic have anything to do with spirit? if i am not wrong, spirit use spiritual power or something, spiritual power does contain spirit word in it.
    at somepoint there are supernatural power too.

    there are futuristic setting and europian ambience. both explaining about the setting. so why does one of the tag use "ambience" instead of setting?
    i think we have to define what a "setting" is. is setting mean the place? atmosphere/ambience? time line?

    ancient china : This tag is used to explain the setting of the story. It indicates that the story takes place in an authentic Ancient Chinese environment, meaning that actual ancient figures and kingdoms are involved.
    so this tag is a setting tag
    ancient time : Indicates that the story takes place in ancient times, but NOT in China. It can be used even if the place is fictional.
    but this is not a setting tag (doesnt contain setting word in it). it means that this tag description need to be reworded. and doesnt this tag a bit too... wide? not specific(well it specify to NOT in china)? because we have ancient china, there will be ancient greeks, ancient europe, ancient america, ancient japan, ancient bla bla bla. too many ancient thingy here. and ancient time or ancient setting? we really have to define what a "setting" is.

    fanaticsm : This tag is used if characters involved in the novel have a belief or behavior involving uncritical zeal or with an obsessive enthusiasm towards the protagonist.
    loyal subordinates : Where the protagonist has underlings that have a strong sense faith/devotion to the protagonist.
    those two tags are too similar.


    and the way NU name a tag as a plural (p) or singular (s) is a bit weird:
    angels : p
    fairies : p
    family : s (cousin tag should be merged with family, if not does that means cousin is not a family member?)
    programmer : s
    something-something characters : p
    firearms : p
    familiars : p
    etc

    if some personification tag (i think thats the name, something about a person/item) are written plural, why does some of them is singular?
    maybe it can be fixed with (s) in the description or something similar. and some of the tag use race and the other doesnt. fairy race(tag: fairies) but not angel race(tag: angels). the way the description is written need to follow the same standard. just look at these race description:

    demi-human : Individuals who are part animal, part human.
    fairies : Tag is to be used when protagonist or characters that play a major role throughout the story is of fairy race.
    dragons : Serpentine entities that usually possess immense power. Traits vary greatly depending on folklore but all share the trait of being long-lived.
    dwarfs : fantasy race that are characterised as short and muscular. genrally depicted as good at forging and crafting.
    angels : This tag is to be used only when the series contains a set of characters/a single character who is termed an Angel. This should be according to the traditional definition of an angel. To be used only if the author uses the term Angel.
    elves : This tag is to be used if the Elven race exist within the story and an Elve is either the protagonist or either one of his companions/friends/Lovers
    some of them describe the race but the other describe that "it can only be used if the mc met (specific race or something) or a major plot happen"
    beast kin... i think this tag is part of demi human tag. because in most novel, beast kin have "humanoid" form

    charismatic protagonist and charming protagonist...
    a charismatic protagonist can charm people using their charisma(or use their charisma to charm people), right? those two tag should be merged

    death : used when the lose of life plays a big role in the story or the protagonist change in mindset.
    um... i think those description is a bit...
    if i am not wrong there is tragedy tag or something, right? this description should be included in tragedy tag instead, because death means... death, you know? "people die if they are killed"

    there are clan building, kingdom building, and sect building... those three are too similar in nature. i wont be surprised if there is empire building tag...

    there are cute daughter tag, but why there is no cure imouto tag?? i demand that tag now!

    *imouto*

    i think we have to made a connected tag system/child system/tiered/whatever the name is, where the "child tag" must reference the "parrent tag". for example sword tag, it will have several "child tag" : sworduser/swordsman/swordswoman/whatever the name is, and swordmanship. and these "child tag" could have another "child tag". and these "child tag" wont be visible in the main tag page, you must "expand" the tag to see it. but it will be visible in the novel tag section

    the number of (something-something) protagonist tag is too damn high!!!
    calm, loner, clever, cold, aggresive, etc...

    btw why cant i click the genre button thingy in the search result? i thought that we can search a genre by clicking it from the search result page...
    and why cant i see the novel tags from the search result? am i missing something?
    maybe because of my adblock or something

    edit :
    and the Related Series thing... this "tag" need to be reworked. in immortal mortal novel, the related series has "chinese novel" tags. they does have the same author though...
    if i am not wrong, there are these tags : same franchise, same author, same universe. same franchise and same author has the same meaning... about same universe, does prequel/sequel count too? it does happen in the same universe, but different timeline...
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017 at 6:08 PM
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  10. MangoGuy

    MangoGuy Rambling Mango

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    Phew...give me some time. You raises some good points. Need to process..i hate it when I don't have my laptop!!

    Charismatic is more from a battle point of view, while charming is not. Think of army vs civilian terms used which might mean the same.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2017 at 6:27 PM
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  11. Molen

    Molen New Member

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    how do i use quote function again???

    "Charismatic is more from a battle point of view, while charming is not. Think of army vs civilian terms used which might mean the same."

    in everyone else is a returnee there are character that use charm in battle. so i assume that some novel with incubus/succubus protagonist will do the same... so technically charming can be used in battle.
    but generally, i think you are right
     
  12. MangoGuy

    MangoGuy Rambling Mango

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    That is different. If related series is listed as Chinese novel, it's a scam. Same franchise and same author are different. An author can make multiple franchises. Prequel and sequel indicate the related series is a bit closely related, while same universe indicates a more distant similarity. Btw, does same author really exist? @runsing

    Maybe it is an exception. Can it come under the seduction tag? Wait...there exist separate tags for succubus and incubus...no need for more depth.

    An ambitious idea. That is how things used to be, leading to 1.7k tags. No. Not happening. At least, not until Tony gives us an upgrade.

    The description is a bit off. The death here is of the protagonist. OR, in case of a LONG series it might be a lover. Tragedy is supposed to be toward the end. Actually, I think we have a tragic protagonist/past tag...I am getting absentminded?!!

    They are similar tags in different types of novels. Think of army vs navy vs air Force terms which might seem to be the same.

    Damn it!! I need to get to editing the tags...fanatism is not only for the protagonist!! And by loyal, we aren't talking about yandere level. You should be able to understand the difference between the two tags by their names...

    I personally feel that it is very less, when you think about the 3k+ series listed on NU. That just shows that a lot of author go for a troupe...and the tag list the troupe.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2017 at 6:46 PM
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  13. runsing

    runsing status : bleeding, health -10/s Novel Updates Staff

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    charming in character =/= charm spell (magic)

    'insert language here' novel indicates printed novel. i actually brought it up with tony very recently, but he wants to keep it for now. (theres also possibility my point is unable to reach him)

    as for same author, you can reach it by clicking on author's name

    i'm, sorry, i'm quite lost of your 2nd question
     
  14. MangoGuy

    MangoGuy Rambling Mango

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    Because European ambience tag is used not strictly for a setting. For a setting, personally, whatever setting is there must be thorough. Ancient China and ancient times are the examples. We know the place, the society, the times and stuff. But for European ambience, we don't necessarily know the place nor the time. It is 'just european'. Idek who made this tag. The thing is, no novel has a perfect European setting. There is only an ambience with added stuff. Not the same for China and future.

    I was saying that there is no need for seduction tag when succubus and incubus are involved. No need for the depth. It is given.

    Are you sure you want to be the one who makes that tag?? Either way...there is no need. We can just combine siblings and cute story tag..stuff like that.

    I have nothing to say about this. Someone changed the original def of spiritual power. Not gonna defend that person. Just know that they are different. Welcoming tag def suggestions.

    Need suggestions. While awkward and all, it is to the point and clear imo.
    Fair point. The tags started out to be different, but the usage is not proper.
    @runsing I think we can call wizard+witch tag as Magic user, if it doesn't yet exist.

    This is above me. It is in the mod level editing plate. Wait till a mod responds.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2017 at 6:54 PM
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  15. Lord Blitz

    Lord Blitz Fluffy Lightning

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    .for the setting and ambience once like @MangoGuy said
    also the reason we have a tag specific to ancient china is because of the sheer amount of historical novel in the site that take place in a similar setting.

    .For stronger to stronger. Its a temp choice. its gets the point across but it might need a better name and def.

    .fanaticism def is wrong it needs to be changed. any suggestions? :)
     
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  16. MangoGuy

    MangoGuy Rambling Mango

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    Lol. There is a reason why some are plural and some are singular. Simple answer: protocol. In depth: it is to generalize the tags, and group them together.

    ...I don't know how you missed this, but for SOME people...swords woman could be a fetish. Tags related to fetishes are not handled by the general public.

    I think I have answered most of your questions. We are always open to suggestions and discussions. Tq for the efforts. Hope I was clear enough.
    To the mods, before banning me for double posting, consider the pains of scrolling on a phone. Just merge the comments if you like..but currently, each comment can be individually referenced in future.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2017 at 7:02 PM
  17. Lord Blitz

    Lord Blitz Fluffy Lightning

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    .for death from the looks of it there are some series that ate tagged inappropriately and we could change some of them into death of loved ones. plus many of them describe second chance or reincarnation novel which is kinda redundant. maybe remove?

    .for the building ones there different but we could join sect and clan building into a tag like sect/clan building

    .actually i suggest change cute daughter into cute children for gender neutralization.

    .For the protagonist one you should have seen the number of female and male lead tags before @brasca123 went with the neutralization:blobxd:

    I actually wrote more but I accidentally deleted it.:blobpensive: Well @MangoGuy and @runsing already answered pretty much all of it.
     
  18. LaDyViL

    LaDyViL 「Bleeding Blob」 Staff Member

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    @MangoGuy I'm still senile enough to not ban someone who confront that humongous wall of text with multiple posts. Your posts have been merged, you just didn't realize it yet. -ninja mod-

    :blobpeek: you should have known by now, I stalk all threads and posts telating to tags.

    My replies will come much later, probably. Sleeping desu.

    There, there (つಥ⌣ಥ)つ⊂(ಥ﹏ಥ⊂)
     
  19. brasca123

    brasca123 『Hell's Trainee Manager』

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    Hmmmm... Just giving my view on a few points, the rest should've already been answered.

    Witches and Wizards are different, witches have a very specific connotation that is usually quite pejorative, so I think it's best separate.

    For the Plura or Singular thing... In general, it should be on plural if it's not talking about the Protagonist... Not all tags are following this standard though.

    For some of the definitions, like "Demi-human", are simply bad definitions that need to be editted. Tag defs should talk about the tag and its usage on NU... I don't work much on definitions, but I can assure you that the def of Demi-Human is not the kind that is wanted.
     
  20. MangoGuy

    MangoGuy Rambling Mango

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    ...rule 34: don't touch the fetishes.