Question [CN] Third person, yes or no?

Discussion in 'Translator's Corner' started by readerz, Jul 25, 2017.

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  1. readerz

    readerz Madam Jin

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    I'm currently MTL'ing and I have a question. Is there any consensus on whether to keep the dialogue in third person or not? I mean, in the project I am working on there are five characters who are refer to themselves in third person. It's okay in Chinese but I feel that it's really weird in English. I mean, who talks like that! I'm worried the readers will think everyone is evil like Doctor Doom!

    I mean like:

    "This disciple understands." -> "I understand."
    "What this person likes he can take?" -> "I can take what I like?"
    "If you want something, tell the teacher and as long as he has it, he can give it to you." -> "If you want something, just tell me and as long as I have it I will give it to you."

    It's killing me, lol, I sometimes actually wonder if they are talking about themselves or an actual third person who isn't in the scene.
     
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  2. Beer_Kitty

    Beer_Kitty Just a very very drunk kitty that likes beer

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    Its kind of a type of speech. There's a few of those on anime's.

    Its somewhat irritating but theres speaking patterns like that. But most of them are playing childish so i dont think old guys should be doing that.
     
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  3. readerz

    readerz Madam Jin

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    One of the speakers is like 100 years old...
     
  4. Beer_Kitty

    Beer_Kitty Just a very very drunk kitty that likes beer

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    A bit creepy but i think i also remember some chinese martial art movies where the teacher always talks on 3rd person. Not sure but the Confusious(forgot spelling) guy also talks a bit like that.

    But in JP mostly its Loli's using 3rd POVs
     
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  5. LaDyViL

    LaDyViL New Member Staff Member

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    From the translations I've read, I guess for JP it's a cutesy thing while for CN it's an etiquette thing?

    Since directly using the terms I and You can be considered bad manners depending on the relationship or social positions of the person involved. Guess it won't make much sense in English where I is I, You is You etc

    However, I don't think people will call you out on it even if the phrasing sounds weird, as long as the meaning get across. But there could be people who would suggest for a better phrasing.
     
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  6. DarwenGwein

    DarwenGwein Well-Known Member

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    I think it's fine to leave it in 3rd person for those speaking from a lower social position (the "this disciple" and such). English speakers wouldn't have any problem with a butler saying "your humble servant awaits your command" after all.

    Otherwise, changing out to 1st person should probably be the norm. The biggest exception I can think of right now would be characters attempting to pump up their own worth, so the "this king" or "this emperor" may be fine, for example.
     
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  7. nuubman

    nuubman Russia greatest love machine !

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    Make it in 3 person!!! It sounds cool and also it's pretty useful to readers so they know wich character it's talking
    Ps: and u are killing the charm of some characters if you take away their way of talking
     
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  8. Someguy666

    Someguy666 MILF Sect Leader

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    Third person is ultra formal archaic speech often found in period settings when authors go really deep into immersive world building, if translating I suggest using footnotes and bracket the original words along with pinyin for greater clarity.

    Informal modern speech only comes in from Meat-Wine Monks.
     
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  9. GuldTasken

    GuldTasken Well-Known Member

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    As someone previously mentioned. I recall RWX discussing something on this topic about Seniority within China. Short story of it, there was a fight whom was the Elder Brother in a Martial group.

    So, when they speak about being a Disciple, they try to show their humble position and inferiority for their Senior(The teacher). So it is all about respect.

    While you can probably translate a few sentences like you have showcased. Just remember to include a few phrases in your translation where "This disciple understands." etcetera, to remind the readers that this person is showing his humble respect to someone he considers a superior/senior.
     
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  10. readerz

    readerz Madam Jin

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    Dang, so from what I gather from everyone's input, the third person is actually the norm in archaic setting and translating it that way is also normal. Wow, this is kinda hard to do. :cry:
     
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  11. Dino Translation

    Dino Translation Active Member

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    I also think putting it in 3rd person is better, as making it 1st person is the same as removing its nuance.
    But I suggest some modification on the phrasing instead:

    "This disciple understands." -> "Your disciple understands."
    "What this person likes he can take?" -> "What this one likes, this one can take?"
    "If you want something, tell the teacher and as long as he has it, he can give it to you." -> "If you need something, just tell your teacher here, as long as I have it, I will give it to you."

    As far as I know, the 3rd person in Chinese is different from what you may think, coming from English. Basically, those are honorifics, titles, when you referred to yourself rather than 3rd person. It's a different story when you refer to yourself with your name though.
     
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  12. readerz

    readerz Madam Jin

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    Ah, so it's like that. :LOL: This type of third person thing is really rare in English. Thank you very much for your suggestions. I will do that next chapter. This is already done and I want to move on.

    One character does also refer to himself by his name. :ROFLMAO: It's pretty weird syntax, honestly I get confused a lot.
     
  13. Dino Translation

    Dino Translation Active Member

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    Glad I could help. If it's still confusing, you should stop thinking of it as 3rd person. Instead:
    • They address themself according to their relationships and/or standings with the other party. Not a change in POV. Which is why I recommend translating it as "your <something>" instead. For example, you probably won't see anyone calling themself teacher when talking to those who are not their students.
    • This, I'm not sure, but I think calling yourself by your name is a humble/polite way of speaking.
     
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  14. readerz

    readerz Madam Jin

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    But what about when someone says "your mom!"?! No, sorry I'm just kidding about that.

    Thank you. I think I can translate it better next time.
     
  15. Dino Translation

    Dino Translation Active Member

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    Ah, that, it's a little different. If I'm not wrong, the word "your" itself here has derogatory meaning even without "mom".
    Something with a similar use case in English would be … "Bitch!". I think.
     
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  16. Jarrow

    Jarrow Well-Known Member

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    Use the third person. It's a genuine part of the speech pattern that both conveys meaning (status, attitude, etc) AND is actually translatable. Given all the other parts of the job where CN != EN without major rewriting - or just being hopeless - it's actually a valuable part of the dialog.

    Also: as a near-monolingual with virtually no talent for languages, thanks for translating. : )
     
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  17. Incarneous

    Incarneous ☕ [Transcendent Eternality] [Alexfilia's Dad]

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    I'd like to see the third person. When I translate I try to carry it across unless the meaning it lost or it's too awkward, try your best.
     
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  18. readerz

    readerz Madam Jin

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    Okay, so the latest chapters are still in third person, hahahahaha:

    “Your disciple would like to ask, since that teacher sent the sword, does Shizun know him well?”
    “Where is master taking his disciple?”
    “Your disciple will remember.”
    “Your subordinate understands and goes to make arrangements.
     
  19. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

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    I know that it's more flavorful and more correct to use third person and the proper politeness terms, but unless you're a veteran translator, I think it's better to change all of that to "I" or "me". Reading is supposed to be a relatively smooth process and doing it makes it hard to parse what exactly is going on.
     
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  20. readerz

    readerz Madam Jin

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    I know, it's very hard when you're newbie. :cry: