Do yu think once a translator starts a work they are the only allowed or whether other can interfere

I think you fail to understand how much work is involved in actually working together with someone. Let's say they did collaborate:
How would they divvy up the chapters? You do one, I do one? That works well enough unless one of them has a real life issue all of a sudden and doesn't get in touch. Assigning chapters has the same issue. Working on a shared file brings the issue of donations with it. Add into the mix different translation choices in terms of names and stuff and the work just gets messier and becomes a less enjoyable read. If you don't literally work together then a bunch of problems pop up you can end up wasting time as you both translate the same chapter. So while I am not someone who whole-heartedly approves of donations and sponsored chapters I am completely behind Thyaeria not wanting to share the project and totally opposed to hope or whoever forcing the issue. If they wanted to do it for themselves that's one thing, but releasing it publicly at this point was for self serving reasons.

Edit: Slime isn't the best choice as an example as they have had issues with their teams.

What I want is a solid reading experience even if the story is utter **** and loose collabs and chapters on different sites do not offer that. Imagine there is an amazing battle scene going on and you click next chapter and start reading and then BAM! There it is ripping you completely out the story Read More (at such and such's blog). Granted it's ultimately a minor inconvenience but it's the difference between being able to lose yourself in a story and not being able to.

 

I believe what hope did is fine skipping to 200. The only thing she needed to do is ask from Thyraei which I'm assuming she didn't in the first place. As I've mentioned, there are boat loads of chapters to translate. It's not a JP novel where there are only 300 chapters or so.

It's not the leechers who has the say on that part though. It's the donors/sponsors since it's a service to them. Translators could ask the donors if they want to skip the already translated chapters or translate the already translated chapters because quality is bad.

That's the only issue that I kinda agree with, but can also be compromised with communication between two translation groups. I know some people have glossary or something that they encode on their systranet when they read MTLs. It could also be applied in here.

EDIT: Some people read the novel for the first time as they translate. So, this issue could also be rectified by just reading the already translated novels.

That's why there's a need to have a substantial gap between the collaboration. Not just a chapter gap so translators could adjust accordingly.

 

...

It isn't that simple though. Without communication between the two groups one person could nearly finish the chapter only to have the other post it first. So then there are two complete chapters both people did the work, but because communication wasn't good enough instead of finishing a sponsored chapter Thyearia has now wasted who knows how much time doing the same work. So the issue isn't just something that is up to the donors.

I get that you don't think it's bad and I am trying to be relatively nice, but you clearly don't quite get it. Do you know one way or the other what time zone the people in question are in? Do you have any idea how easy or difficult it would be for one or both of them to actually have the type of communication needed to stop them from tripping over each other. Do you know about their lives enough to make that judgement? Do you know about any of the translators lives enough to make that judgement? You are essentially saying that they should complicate their process, make it more of a hassle and just hope and pray that the other party is both reliable and dedicated enough for it to be worth the effort.

What collaboration? Thyaeria and the new person aren't working together. Thyaeria is continuing to translate and the new one picked it up farther along because they wanted to and didn't care what Thyaeria wanted or that it could be detrimental to Thyaeria's motivation to continue translating it.

Ultimately my biggest issue with the whole thing is that apparently the new one asked if Thyaeria wanted to collaborate, was told no and then went ahead and did it anyway. It shows a substantial lack of respect. Why bother asking if you actually don't care one way or the other. Thyaeria didn't want to work with someone else, and this decision is meaningless in both the new persons and your eyes because ... ? You are saying Thyaeria should compromise and what the new person has done is reasonable but the fact is there are likely to be issues and translation differences unless someone ignores the other or the two work together. And apparently you and hope (or whoever the hell it is) feel that forcing this situation is a perfectly reasonable and acceptable thing to do.

Edit tldr: As far as I can tell you are saying someone (henceforth Party A) can force someone else (henceforth Party B) to work together with them. Not only disregarding Party B's opinion or desires but also requiring Party B to devote extra time and effort to coordinate with Party A and maintain the products quality while receiving no benefits for having done so. To which my response is only: <sarcasm>Yep, that sounds reasonable </sarcasm>

 

We're probably not on the same boat. I'm already over with the other person. I'm talking about the collaboration aspect not with hope but for other projects. Read my first comment on your first quote.

that's why I mentioned a substantial gap is needed so they could ask the donors in advance on the already translated chapters. Again, I don't care about hope. I'm talking about collaboration project.

again, substantial gap. The other translation group has already translated a substantial amount of chapters then the other translation group can skip those translated project and read them so they could adjust their terminologies accordingly. For example, a group already translated 200-300. The other has only translated up to 175. The translator who did 175 can communicate in advance what glossaries they used so the other translator could adjust accordingly when they translate above chapter 300. They could also read the chapters instead and use the terminologies that the other translator used.

Again, I don't care about hope. Yes, it shows substantial lack of respect I don't deny that but she's free to do it anyways. I didn't say Thyaeria should compromise, I just didn't like the fact that he didn't accept a collaboration. Nah, don't put any words into my mouth. I didn't say it's respectable, reasonable. Look at my first post on this thread.

 

Okay I'll admit things get blurry there for me. For the most part my reaction is based on you saying

I took that to mean you see no issue with what hope did, that it's a reasonable acceptable thing to do. Not that you simply don't think anyone should be able to stop her.

Still there are no translations that have been worked on by multiple translators that aren't team efforts that happen largely behind the scenes that I read or would recommend. If I need to change sites or use novel updates or another similar site to get to the next chapter you have contributed to making the reading experience or the story worse. Collaboration, if it's going to happen at all in any form should be largely invisible to the readers. If it's not then you really aren't collaborating. Your translating the same work separately, which will cause problems and shouldn't be done, ever. Substantial gap or not.

As to your view on when people should feel free to translate, I don't like it. I imagine you are using it situationly. As in: in the case of translators and translations only, but I don't think like that because people aren't that simple. We learn behaviours. You are saying that in this situation it's okay to disregard someone's answer and opinion whether it's valid or not just as long as you ask first. However, this is a logic that is completely unacceptable in at least some other situations. The better solution is ask and accept the response if it's reasonable. For example, if Thyaeria's response was "No I don't want you cutting into my profits." that's not a good reason to reject a collaboration because as you said it's not Thyaeria's work and him profiting from it is already questionable. However, there are several good or at least valid reasons to reject a collaboration that I have already touched on that there is no reason to take issue with. Basic respect. Ask first, respect/accept the answer.

 

I'll throw my 2 cents into this.. war I guess..?
- One - Translators each have their own tastes on how they translate things
- Two - Even if more then one person translates a series If a person really loved the series and was doing it for other people to enjoy they wouldn't drop it because someone is translating a series.
- Three - It's like a MTL taking a translators work and the translator getting angry at idiots who want to read fiction.
- Four - Even if they both take donations it doesn't mean ones right and ones wrong, they both have different styles and speed, If you don't like one don't read it.
- Five - This site will post every single alternate translation as we are neutral its up to the people to chose to visit the site on a release. (.. @Tony can delete this if its not true -cough-)
- Six - It's silly for leechers to get up in arms about this due to the fact that you arn't working on translating the novel so if someone wants to put effort into something you have literately no right to judge someone who does.
^ To add on "Well if they want to contribute why not do another novel!" Well they have a choice on novels as someone who's adding on to the community, if the first person who started to translate it doesn't want to work together, why do they have to stop?

Anyways this is pretty silly, if you really want to have a solid say on a topic like this you can either A. Learn the language and start to translate or B. Read both translations and see whats different and point of the differences.

Remember each translator does it differently as a language will never perfectly translate into your native language.
Anyways first and last post in this thread. Since its getting silly.

 

I was just simply replying to the comment you made about how chapters gets divided on collaboration. That's why I said what hope did is ok lol. Yeah, that made a huge misunderstanding.

yeah, I agree with you on that, collaboration should have been made behind the scenes.

Basically, free speech and I was thinking of another scenario when I said that.

In another scenario, there should be a standard rule to build up your portfolio (translating another novel) first and ask for a collaboration later once you have enough chapters released. If the translator deny you not because of quality of your work or attitude, then IMO the translator is at fault here. He/she can do what hope did IMO.

 

@sal880612m
No translator has the rights to a novel. If somebody wants to collaborate, and another says no, then what do they do? Just not translate altogether? I think the situation with TDG is great, theres a 80~90 chapter difference between the two projects. Why should Thyaeria's word trump hope's? (it shouldn't). This is nothing like how ST had translators fighting each other to release first, hope made a decision that ultimately doesn't affect Thyaeria's. You're looking at this the wrong way, hope was refused by Thyaeria, and instead started their own project that doesn't affect the current one. In the future there might be errors in terminology, but thats why editing exists. You also say JJ's logic wouldn't work in other situations; well this isn't another situation, this is this situation.
TL;DR leecher stop getting your panties in a bunch and fighting against a problem that doesn't exist

 

It's about a translator's pride. It's just thyaeria wants to complete the novel by himself. What's wrong in it? If she so much wants to translate it, ask her to translate correctly. What's use of translating from 200th chapter? No one understands it expect those who read raws. It confuses us more while some translated words are different from the previous ones like what happened with ATG.

 

What's wrong with it is something as dumb as pride is being used to srgue against it. If that pride really matters so much then nobody is stopping Thyaeria from completing the translations on their own and ignoring hope's. A few novels are in that situation, like one person using MTL for speed, while another carefully translates. Also, nobody is forcing you to read hope's translations. Furthermore, has it occured to you that someody might want to start translating to further their skill in a language?
The use of translating from 200 is so that hope's translations don't conflict with Thyaeria resulting in ST2.0.

 

@kuraian
I know for a fact that some translators have removed their entire project because someone did exactly what hope did. I don't agree with it but it has and could happen.

Also did you not realize that at some point the question of who's project it really is would come up again? How is jumping ahead not an attempt to poach the project. If Thyaeria caught up and wanted to do his own translations most of the fan base would probably drift over to hope because hope was ahead and if that didn't happen then what? Alternate chapters? Someone is forced to jump ahead. Like Shio said if hope had started from the very beginning I wouldn't care, because that would have a much smaller chance of impacting the current project than what hope chose to do.

If hope really didn't want another ST he/she would have chosen to start at the beginning or to start a completely different project.

 

For you pride may be a small thing but for us it's necessary. As a someone who aspires to become a writer and translator I know how it feels when someone interferes in your project. I would rather be called a slow translator but would never join others in my project and regarding version two is it really necessary. If for testing purposes there are many untended novels out there which need attention.

 

@RougeAsura
I've yet to hear anything about pride coming from Thyaeria's mouth, so don't put words into it. This is about the ethics in this situation, and hope already compromised instead of forcing a collaboration with racing for chapters. Also, the pride of writers and translators would be different, would it not? A writer's work is usually their own ideas, whereas a translator's is rewriting a work in a different language.

@sal880612m
You keep talking of hypothetical situations and "there are many other projects," but you're looking at this from a biased view from Thyaeria's side. What about hope? Hope obviously also shows an interest in TDG.
These situations you say aren't ideal but what can you do besides work it out, perhaps hope might just keep jumping another 100 chaps ahead or vice versa. You also imply that hope is in this to cause trouble and start another ST, both of you keep talking about "Thyaeria might" or "hope is" etc. I've heard nothing about Thyaeria's pride being hurt or hope doing this out of malicious intent, I've only been trying to look at this situation from a neutral standpoint and I don't see any problem.
tl;dr hope did nothing wrong, y'all keep throwing out what ifs over and over again

 

Someone who was actually neutral would have done what Shio did.

Also since you're calling me out on considering the negatives that exist or could arise because of this situation why don't you list the possible benefits of it.

 

Star'sWish says she enjoy translating, it's a stress reliever and enjoys Tales of Demons and Gods which is why she's translating it. She's even skipping 100 chapter ahead to avoid any competition with Thyaeria. She's not accepting donations either.

Why does everything have to benefit us, the leecher?

Let her enjoy what's she's doing. She has a lot of support if you look at her poll.

 

The moment you start taking "donations" for translating a story, you get no sympathy from me when someone else starts translating the story you were working on. I always found people taking donations for manga to be extremely hacky, unless they were using it to upgrade the site, or they needed some money to buy physical copies to get work done. Anything else seems like bs to me, especially when me and some other dudes i knew used to come out of our pockets to get what we needed. Sure it hurt at times because we could have used our money on other stuff but, It was a hobby ,and people got a lot of enjoyment out of what we did. This might actually be why I haven't read a lot of the CN novels. Mfers getting paid ,when they had nothing to do with the process of writing the story annoys me.

 

Haven't read through the thread properly, but here's my input on this subject:
As a leach, whose only contributions to the the community has been a bit of editing on a couple works (and providing some raws), my ideology is that anyone should be allowed to translate these works, if there isn't already an official release.

It's basically an open market, without anyone having any sort of rights attached.
Having a monopoly on one project is impossible anyways, due to the nature of the internet.

That said, it would become extremely problematic if just anyone tried to "Translate" whatever project they wanted.
The ideal solution would be for translators to collaborate on a project and split the workload effectively. It's ultimately a volunteer effort anyways, so why start drama?

And then there's also the issue of poor translations.
A lot of readers in this community care less about the quality of a translation than the translators who pump out poor work. So even if there is a second person trying to translate this work, with perfect english, and with the original meaning in-tact, it doesn't matter because it's not as fast, and won't get any attention.
Inversely, if the translation is poor enough (cuts out segments, or adds head-canon, for example), even a fast translation won't save the project, if someone better comes along.

So the decision ultimately falls on the community, whether or not a project can be "shared".

 

Can we just get this thread locked?