Discussion Should I have no more hope for JP novels?

Problem with that arguement is that there is a fine line between just recouping losses and making a profit, some "fan" translators definitely do cross it and plenty of others would if they got enough readers to push them into profit.
Also this is just as much about ad revenue as about donations and either way it is a slippery slope towards aiming for profit once you start expecting any money in return at all.

 

fair enough, as they say, the devil is in the details

 

I'm actually tempted to make a beta character in one of the stories I'm planning just so I could bitchslap that character... or maybe create a story where different templates of beta MC's get rekt by Alpha MC.

 

Neat.

This reminds me of several instances where a story or a comic starts out with your typical shonen MC. Spiky hair, massive sword, unintentional harem he is clueless about, 16 years old, wants to save the world TM... and then he gets murdered brutally in the first chapter and the real MC is shown.

 

Daaaaaamn! We need more of those!

 

Name?

 

I have seen about half a dozen, but I can only remember a few names... all of which are R18 for some reason.

Spoiler: R18

there is an adults only (porn) video game called the last sovereign.

there is an adults only (plot with some lewds on the side, mainly by NPCs since MC is completely asexual) original fic called "Everybody Loves Large Chests" on royal road legends.

there are a few others which were PG13 and I remember them, but not what they are actually called. Sorry.

 

What is being meant by saying they're 'weak' is not their physical, magical or whatever strength. Just like in reality, it's all about mindset, character and attitude. JP MCs take a beating from women w/o even avoiding or blocking when they're perfectly capable of it as it seems to be some kind of a recurring joke, they are more than once letting bad guys be all over them, their harem in more than one case has to take care of them (esp. defend them, as for some examples, I can think of several right away: Rosario + Vampire - anime only, though, Sekirei, most of Date a Live although this MC is relatively better and mans up when he has to save one of the heroines later on, and others); also, they have no confidence and pride that are usually traits of the strong.

To put it another way, they gain strength, but their character and mindset do not change. Normally, when you get stronger, even if its just working out or training martial arts, you become more confident, more collected... your way of thinking and the way you act change. I do not remember any JP MC who experiences such a change, esp. in web novels where they all (almost all) get a sudden power up and their mentality doesn't change at all. Those novels are often simply wish fulfillment or a power trip (either for the author, or by the author for the readers, to identify themselves with MC) read in JP by some hikikomori who don't even have the guts to leave their own home (although there may be some justified cases) or otaku with psychological problems who can look at those pissweak MC and think, "oh, this guy is more miserable than me, and even he can succeed in getting a girlfriend and all! I like this anime, I want to see more!". In comparison, in CH novels you see weak MCs who get stronger and become more confident, although CH novels go overboard and we often end up with some Peerless Martial God etc.

Also, there is a certain quote that fits this issue very well. I dunno who was it, but they said, "there are no dangerous weapons, there are only dangerous people". For example, if you let a weak-ass four-eyes launch a nuclear bomb and make sure he has full awareness of the consequences, then unless he has some issues, he would never have the guts to do it. But if you give this opportunity to some criminal or some nihilist, then you may end up with a mushroom cloud... and, unfortunately, most JP webnovels' MCs are the cowardly four-eyes here.

Ofc, I don't claim that those watching/reading such stuff are all otakus and hikikomoris and what not. I'm just saying that they are an important, maybe the most important, target audience for such products. And, there are some decent JP MCs. But usually, they are either in anime/maga or light novels, not in web-novels (with exception of MCs such as Shield Bro or Summoned Slaughterer).

 

Hey now, a nihilist wouldn't have a reason to go nuking stuff either, rejecting the idea of morality isn't the same thing as wanting to do what others consider immoral.

 

Don't nitpick It's just an example. I did say "some nihilist", and not "every nihilist" nor "a nihilist", but it still may have turned out more generalized than I wanted it to, so I can give you that much credit. Anyway, the key point is, having great power doesn't equal being able and willing to wield it. While it's theoretically, as in physically, possible for me to go out and kill ppl, I don't do it and have no such intention (putting aside my opinion of how retarded that would be... I'm just talking about what's physically possible). I don't have a temperament of a bloodthirsty murderer either despite possessing that theoretical capability, as evidenced by my cute and lovely avatar.

 

I mostly read shoujo tho, so....

Also, there are some very, very good JP novels where the MC eventually matures. A good example would be Oda Nobuna no Yabou or Tsuki ga Michibiku Isekai Douchuu.

So I believe JP MCs can be just as awesome >.>

 

Good point, I'm speaking about shounen/seinen since it seemed to me to be the focus of this discussion... not to mention I don't read shoujo/josei.

 

A very well-made point.

 

A lot of people who ascribe to exotic philosophies do not actually really understand those philosophies well or at all.

 

Well, what I understood as nihilism when I'd been writing that post was that nihilism sees no meaning in life. And since you said this, you got me a bit curious, and I checked the wiki page for nihilism.
Here's the quote copy-pasted from wikipedia (as much as it can be trusted):
Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism, which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.[1] Moral nihilists assert that there is no inherent morality, and that accepted moral values are abstractly contrived. Nihilism may also take epistemological, ontological, or metaphysical forms, meaning respectively that, in some aspect, knowledge is not possible, or reality does not actually exist.
Is what they wrote. In this case, the person who argued I was wrong seemed to be only aware of moral nihilism, and what I was aware of was only existential nihilism Kinda funny how we both only knew a part of the definition and weren't convinced by each other xDD
Anyway, I don't change my opinion, then. Since if something has no meaning to someone, then what would they care if they destroy it? It's like its either way is fine... though tbh, I don't know whether existential nihilists have any destructive tendencies or not, and once again, tbh, I don't rly care.

I salute mrttao though as his post reminds me of what so many of us forget so often, sometimes and esp. this time myself included (though I lucked out as what I'd said ended up being somewhat correct in the end). Namely, if you didn't even bother to scratch the surface of the topic, why bother opening your mouth? (I'm gonna shut up about philosophies next time... )

 

Depends on if the "nihilist" just sees no meaning on an objective/ideological level or if it extends to a personal level as well, in the former case they would still have personal feelings and biases about things but it would be those and not really the nihilism that could potentially fuel destructive tendencies(just as with any other person).
If it is the latter case though that would be closer to apathy, such a person quite likely wouldn't see any more meaning in doing anything destructive than they are in doing anything constructive.
That said it isn't a stretch to imagine someone deep in depression and/or angst to declare everything to be meaningless(not necessarily believing in it though) and act out destructively, seem to me like it could be what you are thinking of.

 

I was actually saying that you raised a good point, because even if your argument is based on a flawed understanding of it, sufficient amount of people who claim to follow it use the same flawed understanding and just trying to be edgy