Skimming Kabbalah and Sefirot as a magic system for a story is tiring.

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Lazriser, Sep 21, 2017.

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  1. I doubt it?

    5 vote(s)
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  2. Highly recommended!

    3 vote(s)
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  3. Nah, stick with the general info.

    4 vote(s)
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  4. Lay off the magic mushrooms, bro. (What is this?)

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  1. Lazriser

    Lazriser Well-Known Member

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    No I haven't so I just googled it just now.
     
  2. AardwarkThe2nd

    AardwarkThe2nd (R-18 writer) Aardwark, the king of aardvarks!

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  3. Tsaimath

    Tsaimath Otter Madness!

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    Honestly, I doubt that it matters at all.
    Think about it, the majority might know the name Kabbalah and that's it. In depth knowledge to realize that you only took general information and made the rest up yourself is not something a huge majority have so it might make a difference for one or two people and they can suspend their disbelief ;) as you have artistic license.
     
  4. AardwarkThe2nd

    AardwarkThe2nd (R-18 writer) Aardwark, the king of aardvarks!

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    Most interesting line in the wikipedia link of you are thinking of making a cultivation system:
     
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  5. Lazriser

    Lazriser Well-Known Member

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    I just started reading the prologue and I'm already learning history notes I don't know about. :blob_coughblood:
    Indeed, but there is something about the Kabbalah that makes me want to unravel it even more. In the end, it all results to whether I don't go insane or I somehow do go insane and miraculously complete my journey.
     
  6. Lazriser

    Lazriser Well-Known Member

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    Mein Gott! There's still more? Ha-ha... ha... ha... *silence*
     
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  7. zhainan2157

    zhainan2157 『Villager No.2157』『Kawaii Connoisseur』

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    THIS... THIS IS... THIS IS ABSOLUTE PROOF THAT THERE ARE WIZARDS AMONG US!!! Now to look for some xiuxian cultivators to take me on as a disciple.
     
  8. Lazriser

    Lazriser Well-Known Member

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    Lay off the magic mushrooms, it ain't good for ya mind.
    Wizardry is a myth, and Qi (Chi, Ki, Prana) = Cultivator and Mana (Od) = Magician are different things.
     
  9. AardwarkThe2nd

    AardwarkThe2nd (R-18 writer) Aardwark, the king of aardvarks!

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    It isn't that difficult if you want to create a cultivation system. I'll give you a step by step:

    1. Look at my quote and select something that looks cool. eg. '613 channels'
    2. Google '613 channels kabbalah'
    3. Check result.
    Kabbalah explains that the soul is comprised of 613 channels, which parallel the 248 limbs and 365 blood Vessels of the body.
    There are 613 mitzvahs or commandments for reincarnation or something. Also, the Bar Mitzvah is quite famous among them.
    4. Create a step in the cultivation system where you cleanse out all 613 pores by doing 613 commandments.
    Name it something cheesy like '613 Divine Circuit Cleansing'.
    Add that all other cultivators have to follow the commandments but due to possessing the Ancient Kabbalah manual or something, the MC can skip this shit by simply meditating (or has to do only 6 Kabbalahs).
    5.Rinse and repeat for everything else.
     
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  10. Cupcake Ninja

    Cupcake Ninja [Kind Sage][Lord Benevolence][ The Great Paragon]

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    what, it doesn't tell you how they work? aren't there sites about it? Maybe try reading the Iron Druid chronicles, it has a lot of mystic kind of magic stuff there.
     
  11. Lazriser

    Lazriser Well-Known Member

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    Oh, that is good for Physical Foundation or Core Establishment of the body, but overall, I still need to read a lot to get most of what I'm looking for. And thanks for them tips, and I shall try your advice and commit this 613 channels (damn... this is larger than what I read in cultivation novels).
     
  12. Jastolus

    Jastolus [Anti-Nihilist] [Captain]

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    That's probably true for most strorys. Still, if it's something like Unsong the effort clearly shows in all the explanations of Kabbalah and the references to both Torah and the real world. It gives the whole thing an different feeling from other fantasy storys.
    Being unfamiliar with the History of the US won't be a Problem. The Story has an alternative history from the prolouge on. And while there are some Things that are the same (Presidents), you will defenitely be okay.
     
  13. Lazriser

    Lazriser Well-Known Member

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    Actually, it generally does, but just the level-of-skimming is already enough to make my knees weak, my arms heavy, enough to make me vomit spaghetti.
    And I doubt this is enough to complete the main system, unless I have a very wild and vivid imagination which I don't, so I'll just try to read more of these subjects when I have the time. There is no harm learning, since it is a real practice with physical applications as well.
     
  14. Lazriser

    Lazriser Well-Known Member

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    From what I read about the reviews about Unsong, they all had one thing in common: DEM PUNS BE REAL!
    Though if I have time, I will read it and thanks for the suggestion (book).
     
  15. andykhang

    andykhang Well-Known Member

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    Well, if you doesn't want to read more of it, just skimming it straight through, then using that to make an entirely new things would be fine. You could make the 613 + 3= 616 = Mark of the Beast trial like above, or just used that as a template for example of infinity, and the journey people take to grasp the non-measurable, for example.
     
  16. Lazriser

    Lazriser Well-Known Member

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    I'm planning to give it a Stars Wars feel-Sith vs Jedi concept, so there is no absolute evil, only corruption and chaos that breaks the balance, but with magic (or prana) as its means of power.
     
  17. AardwarkThe2nd

    AardwarkThe2nd (R-18 writer) Aardwark, the king of aardvarks!

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    As I said, the cultivation system isn't hard to create. If I really wanted to write a story for it, I could create one in 30 min and spend an hour typing it out.
    As for MC's characterization: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ANiceJewishIndex

    The biggest problem is the MC's cheat, the Kabbalah. Giving the complete book to the MC will make him too OP.
    So maybe have the book separated into many parts and the MC hunts them down like Transcending the Nine Heavens?
    Maybe the book can be the grandpa raising MC to be a badass?
    Maybe using the book hurts the MC's soul to use the power of Absolute Light?
     
  18. Okuri Ookami

    Okuri Ookami 'Chi Chi Chi' calls the Sparrow

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    Ah maybe Solomon could be considered a starting point? King Solomon the great wizard and the one delivered power over demons by God and wrote the Goetia? There was also a Jewish king or Shaman named Dust and wolf and his friend that had a similar name meaning raven (Wolves and Ravens have a symbiotic relationship and wolves are associated with Dust) I forget the Hebrew name but they seemed to have some powers too. I doubt you'd find any of that in the Kabbalah though. Maybe something dealing with King David or his descendants?

    I've been looking into systems of multiple religions but *sigh none come as close to the Chinese one. The western system is the closest, the Japanese and Buddhist next, no real info on druid practices and shamanistic and animism isn't all that detailed. If you find any Jewish power systems please let me know. If you find something concrete maybe I can use it to search for something similar for Christianity cause as of right now all I have is grace...
     
  19. Jastolus

    Jastolus [Anti-Nihilist] [Captain]

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    I guess it's true that there are puns in the book, but there are also entire chapters about analysing or explaining Kabbalah.
    Just try reading the second interlude as an example.
    Also interesting...
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  20. Cupcake Ninja

    Cupcake Ninja [Kind Sage][Lord Benevolence][ The Great Paragon]

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    Okay so i got some ideas for you then, just a few simple thoughts you may want to try and think about since you say you need a bit of imagination which as you know i have shit loads of

    ...so just by reading about the kabbalistic "tree of life" i already kind have an idea about what you can do. Why not base the magic system off of that tree? like make ketar or whatever the highest rank one can reach, and the other's more like titles or ranks. These ranks may tell that a magician or whatever specializes in a certain aspect of magic, or hold a certain level of understanding in the mystic arts and divine beings. You start from the bottom, maybe, and once you understand oen of the sides, like for example you advance from malkhut to yesod, and to advance further you need to understand both netzah and hod to reach the rank of "tiferet". (Please note im just using these words are placeholders, their actual meaning not withstanding) Or understand netzah fully before advancing, or mastering netzah and tiferet before becoming a "chesed". You can have a few variations of how to advance ranks, or like i said make them just be certain aspect of the whole magic system that are specializations rather than ranks, which would work easily if you don't involve real ranks at all except the ranks within each specialized "class" or system of magic

    if you go the other way, then only have a few ranks but make each one difficult to reach and needing to have a mastering of all before you reach the rank of "keter" which would be like really rare archmage level shit.

    hell you can even change it up, make one side(hod, gevurah,binah) be a theurgical system--meaning a divine being giving you power to do certain spells or whatever, using you as a conduit pretty much--and make the other side magical and autonomous--meaning the more traditional form of magic where you dont rely on a being or outside powers but rather your own inner power. Like cultivation in xianxia novels or something. You know, building you mana capacity and knowledge and then using that to perform magic that directly influences te world, being a closer concept to gods and divine being than the theurgical system but simply much weaker in comparison to them, just having a wider variety of spells handy.

    came up with this in ten minutes, may need some details but you get the idea. There's no need to make a clear cut and progressive system, fam.