Skimming Kabbalah and Sefirot as a magic system for a story is tiring.

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Lazriser, Sep 21, 2017.

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  1. I doubt it?

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  2. Highly recommended!

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  3. Nah, stick with the general info.

    4 vote(s)
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  4. Lay off the magic mushrooms, bro. (What is this?)

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  1. Jastolus

    Jastolus [Anti-Nihilist] [Captain]

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    Actually the left side/pillar of the Tree of Life symbolises Severity, for example on sinners, while the right side/pillar symbolises Mercy. The central pillar symbolises Balance. I'm sure something can be done with that.
    There is also the fact that every sephiroth represents something. For example Chokma represents Wisdom and Binah represents Understanding. It might be a bit hard to include all of them though.
    Most importantly is the sephiroths function however. They gradually transform the infinity of the divine light into the fine of reality. So by cultivationg upwards the tree on could access more pure divine light/energy.
    /\
    I learned this from Unsong. (Sorry if my shilling is getting obnoxious.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  2. chucke

    chucke Going towards the glorious future

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    The question is - what for? Generally I enjoy inventing my own systems as I can perfectly scale them the way I need it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  3. Zx

    Zx Well-Known Member

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    Just read 666 Satan
     
  4. Lazriser

    Lazriser Well-Known Member

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    Once again, thanks for the previous reply on the sources I follow up, but why does everyone assume the protagonist is going to be OP?
    I'm making into a somewhat like a life-story kind of novel where the protagonist experiences many things throughout his life from childhood till death. For example, would be Rudeus' life story novel, so my protagonist would not be OP but just has a higher advantage than others. A somewhat mechanized approached in logic like The Irregular in Magic High School. And thanks again for another source!
    [
    QUOTE="Okuri Ookami, post: 2972389, member: 6543"]Ah maybe Solomon could be considered a starting point? King Solomon the great wizard and the one delivered power over demons by God and wrote the Goetia? There was also a Jewish king or Shaman named Dust and wolf and his friend that had a similar name meaning raven (Wolves and Ravens have a symbiotic relationship and wolves are associated with Dust) I forget the Hebrew name but they seemed to have some powers too. I doubt you'd find any of that in the Kabbalah though. Maybe something dealing with King David or his descendants?

    I've been looking into systems of multiple religions but *sigh none come as close to the Chinese one. The western system is the closest, the Japanese and Buddhist next, no real info on druid practices and shamanistic and animism isn't all that detailed. If you find any Jewish power systems please let me know. If you find something concrete maybe I can use it to search for something similar for Christianity cause as of right now all I have is grace...[/QUOTE]
    Jewish power systems are closely related to astrology, divine names, and laws of different natures.
    As for the Lesser Keys of Solomon and concept of Ars Nova, I recommend reading the translated Goetia, like I have, which gives a distinction between black and white magic, or should I say the innate nature of practitioners of the supernatural.
    You seem to have studied more than me, so I doubt I can assist you in some way, but did you try the concept of Hinduism and Greek Elements? Since Japanese and Greek have almost the same set of elements except Japan has 5 (Void = Sky/Heaven) while Greek (The Four Elements). Though they aren't magic systems, they can be implemented into one, since they serve as a good diagram of how magic flows, the attributes and relationships between each magic element, but as for the origin of magic and how magic is divided into people, animals or creatures, then I recommend concepts that involve circulation of the blood vessels, or acupuncture points. Another one would be the magic system of Old English, Merlin's time, but that involves the cosmos and ancient myths, but worth the try.
    Indeed, that is so...
    Thank you wise sage, but I am but like a mule's ass, for my ears are withered stones, and my brain like broken glass, can never be completed and content if I were not to make a "complete" magic system and world system. Besides I already got the rough outline of how the each world and realms interconnects with one another. Just need to microscope the resident of each realm, then ta-dah, done.
     
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  5. Lazriser

    Lazriser Well-Known Member

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    It ain't obnoxious if I'm more ignorant than you are, therefore the info dump is worth a lot to me.
    Some use magic as the end, mine is the means.
     
  6. Arcturus

    Arcturus Cat, Hidden Sith Lord

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    Ah the Kabbalah. There's several interesting novels that use Hebrew mythology to great effect, King of Shards for one example.

    And Unsong has excellent world-building. Just rather bad characters and meh plot. I almost kept reading it for the world-building though.
     
  7. Ai chan

    Ai chan Queen of Yuri, Devourer of Traps, Thrusted Witch

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    Doesn't matter. Kabbalah is a somewhat complicated system. You need to understand the very concept of the Sefirot, the philosophy of each and how it interacts. Faithfully following Kabbalah is a problem that is never going to resolve itself.

    Or you can take the easy approach of taking the essence of Sefirot and making a completely new system out of it.
     
  8. Lazriser

    Lazriser Well-Known Member

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    Wait... so I need to understand Sefirot first before Kabbalah?
    Well damn! I just went to Kabbalah first then Sefirot later... or can it vise versa, since in essence, they're one all the same?
     
  9. Jastolus

    Jastolus [Anti-Nihilist] [Captain]

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    Well, then I will continue.
    Here is an exerpt from one of the more explanatory chapters of Unsong. I have cut it a bit for better understanding.
    SPEAKER1: Uriel Speaker2: Sohu
    “WE SAY THAT MAN WAS MADE IN THE IMAGE OF GOD,” said Uriel. “BUT GOD IS INEFFABLE AND WITHOUT PHYSICAL FORM. RESOLVE THE PARADOX.”
    .....
    “RABBI AKIVA PROPOSED THAT THE VERSE HAS BEEN MISINTERPRETED. ‘GOD MADE MAN IN HIS IMAGE’ MEANS ‘GOD MADE MAN ACCORDING TO AN IMAGE BELONGING TO GOD’. IN OTHER WORDS, MAN WAS BUILT TO A SPECIFIC CELESTIAL BLUEPRINT. WE CALL THAT BLUEPRINT ADAM KADMON, MEANING ‘ORIGINAL MAN’. ADAM KADMON IS THE BLUEPRINT NOT ONLY FOR MAN, BUT FOR THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE. THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THIS BLUEPRINT AND THE UNIVERSE ITSELF IS THE BASIS OF KABBALAH.”

    “NOVICES IN KABBALAH EXPECT THERE TO BE A SIMPLE CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN ASPECTS OF ADAM KADMON AND OBJECTS IN THE UNIVERSE. FOR EXAMPLE, ONE PART OF ADAM KADMON MIGHT DESCRIBE HUMANS, ANOTHER MIGHT DESCRIBE TREES, AND ANOTHER MIGHT DESCRIBE THE STARS. THEY BELIEVE YOU CAN CARVE UP THE DIFFERENT FEATURES OF THE UNIVERSE, MUCH LIKE CARVING A FISH, AND SIMPLY…”

    “No,” said Sohu, “No fish-carving metaphors.”

    “THEY BELIEVE YOU CAN CARVE UP THE DIFFERENT FEATURES OF THE UNIVERSE, ENTIRELY UNLIKE CARVING A FISH,” the angel corrected himself. “BUT IN FACT EVERY PART OF THE BLUEPRINT IS CONTAINED IN EVERY OBJECT AS WELL AS IN THE ENTIRETY OF THE UNIVERSE. THINK OF IT AS A FRACTAL, IN WHICH EVERY PART CONTAINS THE WHOLE. IT MAY BE TRANSFORMED ALMOST BEYOND RECOGNITION. BUT THE WHOLE IS THERE. THUS, STUDYING ANY OBJECT GIVES US CERTAIN DOMAIN-GENERAL KNOWLEDGE WHICH APPLIES TO EVERY OTHER OBJECT. HOWEVER, BECAUSE ADAM KADMON IS ARRANGED IN A WAY DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENTLY FROM HOW OUR OWN MINDS ARRANGE INFORMATION, THIS KNOWLEDGE IS FIENDISHLY DIFFICULT TO DETECT AND APPLY. YOU MUST FIRST CUT THROUGH THE THICK SKIN OF CONTINGENT APPEARANCES BEFORE REACHING THE HEART OF -”

    “No. Cutting. Metaphors,”

    “THE BIBLE IS AN ESPECIALLY CLEAR EXAMPLE OF A SYSTEM WHICH IS ISOMORPHIC TO ADAM KADMON. SO ARE ALL HUMAN LANGUAGES. SO IS THE HUMAN BODY. SO IS THE TAROT. SO ARE THE WORKS OF WILLIAM BLAKE. SO IS THE SKY AND CONSTELLATIONS.”

    “THERE ARE FOUR GOSPELS IN THE BIBLE, FOUR LETTERS IN THE TETRAGRAMMATON, FOUR LIMBS ON THE HUMAN BODY, FOUR SUITS OF THE TAROT, FOUR ZOAS IN BLAKE, AND FOUR QUARTERS OF THE SKY. THE NOVICE CONSIDERS THIS A COINCIDENCE. THE ADEPT UNDERSTANDS THIS IS BECAUSE THE NUMBER FOUR IS AN IMPORTANT ORGANIZING PRINCIPLE OF ADAM KADMON, AND INSOFAR AS ALL SYSTEMS REFLECT ADAM KADMON, THEY ARE ALSO ORGANIZED INTO FOUR PARTS.”

    “THERE ARE TEN COMMANDMENTS IN THE BIBLE, TEN DIGITS IN THE NUMBER SYSTEM, TEN FINGERS ON THE HUMAN BODY, TEN PIP CARDS IN THE TAROT, TEN PROPHETIC BOOKS IN BLAKE, AND TEN CELESTIAL BODIES IN THE SKY.”

    “Ten celestial bodies?”

    “EIGHT PLANETS, THE SUN, AND THE MOON. THERE ARE TWENTY-TWO BOOKS IN THE HEBREW BIBLE, TWENTY-TWO LETTERS IN THE HEBREW ALPHABET, TWENTY-TWO SOMATIC CHROMOSOMES IN THE HUMAN BODY, TWENTY-TWO MAJOR ARCANA IN THE TAROT, TWENTY-TWO ENGRAVINGS IN BLAKE’S BOOK OF JOB, AND TWENTY-TWO CONSTELLATIONS IN EACH OF THE FOUR QUARTERS OF THE SKY.”

    “LIKEWISE, THERE ARE SEVENTY-TWO BOOKS IN THE CATHOLIC BIBLE, SEVENTY-TWO LETTERS IN THE SHEM HA-MEPHORASH, SEVENTY-TWO HEARTBEATS PER MINUTE IN A HEALTHY HUMAN ADULT, SEVENTY-TWO SIDES OF NUMBER CARDS IN THE TAROT, SEVENTY-TWO PAGES IN WILLIAM BLAKE’S POETICAL SKETCHES, AND SEVENTY-TWO YEARS TO ONE DEGREE OF PRECESSION OF THE EARTH’S EQUINOX.”

    “IN KABBALAH,” Uriel continued “WE RECOGNIZE CERTAIN DIVISIONS OF ADAM KADMON AS ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT. A FOURFOLD DIVISION, WHICH WE INTERPRET AS FOUR WORLDS. A TENFOLD DIVISION, WHICH WE INTERPRET AS TEN SEPHIROT. A TWENTY-TWO-FOLD DIVISION, WHICH WE INTERPRET AS TWENTY-TWO PATHS BETWEEN SEPHIROT. AND A SEVENTY-TWO-FOLD DIVISION, WHICH WE INTERPRET AS THE SEVENTY-TWO-FOLD EXPLICIT NAME OF GOD. BY UNDERSTANDING ALL OF THESE DIVISIONS, WE LEARN THE STRUCTURE OF ADAM KADMON AND THEREFORE THE ORGANIZATIONAL PRINCIPLES OF THE UNIVERSE. ONCE THE ORGANIZATIONAL PRINCIPLES OF THE UNIVERSE ARE UNDERSTOOD, THEY CAN BE CHANGED. IT IS AS EASY AS SHOOTING FISH IN A BARREL.”

    “You’re doing it on purpose now!”

    “THERE ARE MANY FISH METAPHORS.”

    “THE MOST BASIC DIVISION IN THE MYSTICAL BODY OF GOD IS THE TEN SEPHIROT. SEPHIRAH IS A HEBREW WORD RELATED TO THE ENGLISH “SAPPHIRE”, BECAUSE THE SAGES IMAGINED THEM AS SAPPHIRE-LIKE JEWELS ARRANGED IN A STRING. THE TEN SEPHIROT ARE A SERIES OF STAGES OR LEVELS OR JEWELS THROUGH WHICH DIVINE POWER FLOWS IN ITS MOVEMENT FROM GOD TO THE FINITE WORLD. EACH ONE CORRESPONDS TO A SPECIFIC DIVINE ATTRIBUTE. THE FIRST REPRESENTS THE WILL OF GOD. THE SECOND REPRESENTS THE WISDOM OF GOD. AND SO ON.”
    [​IMG]
    “THERE ARE TWENTY-TWO DIFFERENT PATHS BETWEEN THESE JEWELS. EACH CORRESPONDS TO A PARTICULAR HEBREW LETTER.”

    Next a bit about Unsong's Magic System.
    The most common form of 'magic' used by normal humans is to speak the names of god. These names of god consist of Hebrew syllables, and have a very spicific effect. Shorter ones are weaker, longer ones are generally more powerful. The shortest Name with two syllables is the mortal Name of god and it's effect is to kill the Speaker. The Longest Name with 72 syllables is the True Name of God, the Shem haMephorash gives the Speaker powers equal to god, allowing them to reshape the world as they desire.
    Other names allow you to reduce sleepyness, bestow souls to things( only one of the three souls for each name though), animate Golems, fly, create light of darkness, teleport, become invisible, etc. The most powerful Name discovered at the beginning of the Story is the Wrathful Name with 54(?) syllables which has destructive power on the Level of a nuclear bomb. Names can be found through study of Kabbala, getting them from various Entitys or just trying out combinations of syllables. Anyone with a (Human?) Soul can speak Names of God. Names are often spoken in an encrypted form , which is called Klipot. This both protects their secrecy and the Information of which Name is being spoken.

    Just go read Unsong. Do it! Just do it!
     
  10. Lazriser

    Lazriser Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I had reached the general understanding of the Sefirot where there are Four Worlds with each of the Worlds encompassing one or more Sefira. Though there Five Worlds; the First World (Adam Kadmon) is more of the archetype of the Four Worlds as the Four Worlds descend from the World of Emanation to World of Creation to World of Formation to World of Action where it has the physical and spiritual level. As for the Word = Number, I still haven't reached that point yet, but as for the Three Processes of the Universe, I already got the rough idea of it, which is Void and Chaos, then Contraction of Ohr Ein Sof (Infinite Light), and after that is Shattering of the Vessels (World of Chaos), and then finally Tikkun Olam/ Rectification of Ohr Ein Sof (World of Order).
    Simply put, the Universe, our are world has only two perspectives which is the Divine Perspective of God and the our perspective of God through the Sefirot. Imagine the Sefirot overlapping inside a circular form (Gigillum) and the the middle line from Kingship (Malkuth) goes upward to Crown (Keter) is the Yosher-Line which connects the different Worlds and Sefiras, by the Kav (Ray).

    In conclusion: When all sparks of holiness are found and returned back to the Sefirot, the universal end begins as God's Transcendence and Immanence reaches the peak of its concept, therefore our reality return backs into Infinity as we are only a concept and as Ein Sof (Infinity = God) is the true reality. Though I will use this as the main theme of the story; a war between those who oppose the God's Unity and those who desire it, because except for the Jewish part of Gigul, the complete process of the Lurianic Kabbalah means we existence, the finite become once again, nonexistence, and returns back to infinity, since we can only physically and spiritually exist as long there is a finite reality but the base form of God is Ein Sof, the Infinity, therefore Without End, and without end means without beginning, canceling the existence of the physical and spiritual realms/worlds, including us in it.

    Another way of interpreting it would be the imagining the Sefirot inside an egg, as each vertices of the Sefirot overlap with each layer of the shell inside the egg which represents the Four Worlds. Thinking about that leads you to the question: Which came first, egg or chicken?
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
  11. MrSplashy

    MrSplashy Grey Knight

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    Stick to the general info once you've get gist of the whole system then you can actually work your way up to understand the whole magic system.
     
  12. asriu

    asriu fu~ fu~ fu~

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    take a rest~
    if you truly interested you will find your own way to remember term~
    slow and steady~
    sound easy huh~
    but actually it need determination and self control, also know about your own ability~
    based on my experience study law on my country~
    19656.png why people love make thing more complicated?