Lol. Even if the deacon says he killed someone, why would Jenny just straight away make it, that he killed someone. In our real world there have been cases, where even murder trials go by and the suspect is convicted. But later after an appeal, they are set free. And in this their family and friends stand by them. This is called trust, and its very important in relationships. Yes she had her father who she trusted too and lived with a lot longer than Dean, true. But relationships are not to be compared with, or it would turn into questions like 'Who would you save, your pregnant wife or dying father?' There were clue everywhere, Why did her father say so that there is no bail for this crime? when the crime is theft? For God's sake she studying law? Hunters are an existence that is known to all, especially to Jenny. Remember her talks,her wish to go out of the walls and her envy towards those who can. Hunters make money for the nobles, now no matter how naive she is, can she not know 1000gold is nothing. Especially when the whole heiress is coming to him in the form of herself. Plus he was outside the giant wall at the time of theft, how could he steal? They were in a relationship before this event, so surely they must have met before he left for the wall. In the end, she said to him, not to give her his side of the story, but to admit his crime with his own tongue. But you should know, there wasn't even a hearing, Dean couldn't tell anyone his story, what so ever. I mean come on Even God shall ask men about their sins at the day of judgement[not that I am cultist] when he already knows everything. When a deacon can decide everything on his own, its okay if the society thinks its ok, but at least the loved ones shouldn't?
1. I said before he doesn't need the heirloom to become rich. That is why he is a hunter. 2.that is because most rich robbers do not rob that way. You do not see a Rich CEO go into someone house and to steal an item. 3. She only believe in one person. She didn't think the entire court is a bunch of good people. She only thinks one person is good. 4. Why does that matter? She thinks that the only reason why he stole the item is because he was poor. 1. What hippie BS. If a cop comes to you with definitive evidence that your son kill someone, and your son said otherwise who are you going to believe? 2. emotions. No, one said that jenny thought 100% correctly. 3.No one knows how much a hunter makes, and what about the father? The father wanted dean kill because he grow up poor. Him turning into a hunter should have cancel that out. Yet he still wanted dean dead. So, why is it not possible for jenny not to know how much a hunter makes? It wasn't like dean told her, he had 1000 coins after 1 fucking mission. Once again dean didn't help the situation at all with jenny. All he did was tell jenny, he was innocent without any poof to back it up. Why do jenny have to do all of the work and dean nothing. Dean didn't know anything to proof his innocents to Jenny. Jenny's father got the most trust judge to handle dean's case. The lest thing Dean could have done is give jenny a reason to believe in his innocents. Like i said before do not spout hippe BS about love and believing in people without any evidence.
What SageRozenburg said is: "Believing something is eternally pure is already a problem." "One person" is a "something." Just because your case was specific while SageRozenburg's examples were collective doesn't mean the argument does not hold. This is wrong. This paragraph (chapter 141): Jennifer looked up at him. She rubbed off the tears. Her expression slowly calmed down: “It’s all because you are a thief! You love money, so you think everyone loves it too! The book of light says that in the eyes of despicable everyone is despicable and in noble eyes, everyone is noble!” It is clear that she thinks Dean loves money. She never once said that he stole the item because he was poor. In fact, she knows he was not poor. She knows where he lives (in a district for the well to do), she knows what his job is (a hunter, which are usually not poor), and a lot of their meeting shows how not poor Dean is, like at that time when Dean buy Jenny a jade jewelry (chapter 136). After all, what 'poor' person has a safe in their house (chapter 141)? Uh... What is this? The answer really depends on the person in question. Also, the cops would not present evidence, it is not their job. Point 2 is likely a reply to this: And the point is, there are clues, but she ignore them for the words of the Deacon. Why would words from Dean make her change her mind? Of course there are people who knows how much a hunter makes. At least, the people who gave them the money knows. But, since the Hunters are the money making machines for Nobles, the nobles has a gist of how much money an average Hunter makes. Even Jenny, at least, knows what Hunters do. As I said, Dean is not poor. But, as Jenny say (chapter 141): “Even if they fall in love, bird and fish cannot be together!" This is more the sentiment her father has. And things like this (chapter 141): “You can only groan.” the middle-aged sneered: “Do you think you will have the opportunity to do anything? No one will hear you! The decision has been passed down, and you won’t have a chance to stand up. If you want to blame, then blame that you were born poor. It was alright that you were a hunter and earned some wealth through the consortium. But why did you go and get involved with a noble lady?” And this (chapter 142): Prison guard took a look at the documents: “His crime is theft?! Are you sure there is nothing wrong? A thief has been sent to us?” However, when he checked the file below, he realized the circumstances, “Oo, poor little guy.” The guard didn’t have sympathy but gloating on his face. Afterward, he put the documents on top of the counter and said to Dudian: “Little guy, take off your clothes.” Gives a hint of what the real reason is. Also later (chapter 201): Abel whispered: “About three years ago when the Burong family and our family were getting ready for the marriage their daughter declined the offer. Rudolph’s daughter had taken a liking towards a civilian hunter kid. Rudolph didn’t want to trouble her daughter but wanted to break apart the relationship. He asked me to do so that as if the kid had stolen our Longshan Ruby. We paid a bit to Deacon Huey to make sure that the boy was thrown to Thorn Flower Prison and put him into an execution list for a few years later.” It is finally clear why her father wants Dean dead. Oh! But he bought her a jade jewelry. Not only that, Dean and other are told how much money a scavenger can make (chapter 30): Tobu lifted his hand and pointed towards the eight people that had come with him: “These eight represent military and seven consortiums from the commercial district. You can choose to join any of them. Afterwards you will work for chosen consortium or military. All the resources that you will collect outside the giant wall can be converted into a great fortune. I remember there was a scavenger who had picked up a strange object outside the giant wall and received hundred thousand gold coins for it!” Everyone startled, 100,000 gold coins? This is simply the wealth they can not think of! Also he was studying law, and in chapter 7: There were almost no people with rough skin, which meant that those of lower social statuses didn’t even bother to bring their children for the enrollment examination. After all, the law school was a notorious one in Silva, and tuition fees were expensive. Citizens of low status couldn’t afford the fees. There are lot of indications that he is not poor. What proof can he give? He has nothing to offer but his words and himself. What is more that he can he do? You wanted the impossible! Again, you wanted Dean to do the impossible. And Dean did give reasons to believe he is innocent. In chapter 141: “If I say that I never knew about the existence of the Milan family and had never seen the ruby that you were talking about. Would you believe it?” said Dudian. He clutched onto iron pillars as his body trembled. Her answer?: “Why do you have to lie to me!” Tears flew down Jenny’s eyes: “I have inquired about everything. I know all the truth regarding this matter. Why do you want to lie to me now?!” Then: Dudian was full of bitterness: “I never cheated you. It is done by your father who wants to break us up. He deliberately framed me. Why don’t you want to believe me? Why are you acting like this, as if you are alien to my character after the year that we have spent together?” And she: Jennifer crouched down: “At first I also thought so, but I asked the people of the Milan family. Two months ago Miss Milan had invited you to their house for a visit. At that time, I again thought that you wouldn’t something like that. Even when they said that a ruby was found in a safe at your house, I still believe that someone else has framed you!” “But the deacon took the case and personally investigated it, he had confirmed that you had stolen the ruby! ” In the end: Dudian firmly held onto iron pillars: “If you no longer believe me then why have you come here?” Jenny’s body trembled: “I just want to hear you admit your sins. As long as you admit, I won’t care about anything. I will still be with you. I can forgive your crime. But you are still obsessed. You even try to frame my father. Moreover, you are slandering the deacon to cover your crimes. I am really… disappointed with you!” See? She just wants Dean to admit his sins. So I give evidence. I give the chapter numbers where the quotes are taken.
Dude I have to salute your ability 'The blind eyes'. What so? trust is based on evidence. Cops come and they say, we are here to arrest your son as we believe he murdered someone. And you say 'Alright officer, hang this bastard and give this world some peace' No dude, you know your son's character. How could he do something like it. So you try to find counter evidence or evidence that can support his innocence. You also conveniently missed the point where clues were given to Jenny and simply said 'Why does Jenny have to do all the work'. Lol, it is the job of plaintiff to prove. And since they were accusing, the least they could do was hear. Either you are high on the wrong drugs or some past trauma is affecting your ability to think reasonably. And lastly Hippy BS, man you are as great as your dialogues.
My God, we are still arguing with this nonsense? Jenny is an idiot that can be easily influenced, end of story.
Sorry, I didn't and I don't really have time to answer your points. I've wrote my previous messages based on the fact that you've brought into discussion that 'ground'. If you feel like, explain to me what do you understand by "good 'ground' for Dean'. The whole issue was about how she coudn't stand up to the 'common'/'normal' notion of friendship- unconditional trust, self sacrifice and so on. But, what's the basis of a friendship? Emotions, thoughts...? How does a friendship appears, when it disappears? If a fact is proved, can you ignore it.. Just because your feelings/emotions say no? Whatever, the subject touches other related subjects: morality, legal system, social&personal beliefs and so on. I'll try to make some time and review our previous discussion and I'll pm it to you, if you wish so. I didn't pay too much attention to that episode as I'm not reading this book for it's moral teachings, nor because I want to judge characters. Now, is that something good, is that something bad? Maybe. __________________ ... Looks like now, the mc will be able to close combat, but, is that recommended? Also, the church seems to pay attention to all modifications of a hunter's body, no? Now that his magical marks were modified, would they pose a problem for the mc as he'll have to give a justification?
No it was not. Again, you want to discuss friendship when this is not what I was talking about. You keep shifting the attention away. Those are tangential. They have little bearing to if Jenny is a good 'ground' or not. I'll explain what it means, to me. Ground in the sense of: fix firmly and stably. The idea of giving stability. Dean is unstable because of his experiences. You can say, he is mad, angry, enraged. Jenny is supposed to be his 'ground' a person who would help stabilize him and his world. The other metaphor used is Jenny as the 'Light.' The idea is similar to 'Ground,' Light in the sense of giving happiness and joy, and show that there is still good in the world. Dean is somewhat disillusioned. He has rather generous views of people before, but after... lets just say that he doesn't anymore. Jenny is supposed to be the 'Light' someone who will make his see that the world he is in is not really that bad. That is, makes him shed away his 'darkness' and attain happiness and joy, preferably in her arms. The idea of Jenny being the 'Ground' is what I'm against. If that is so, then why are you talking about morality, friendship, upbringing, etc.? It was you who bring those things up. I even point out many times that those are tangential and is not the topic. If you are not reading it for moral teachings, then why are you here talking about morals to me? It was you who wants to talk about it. If there is someone to blame why we are talking about morality, it is you. You started it.
Man, the Jenny argument has become a slugfest. Lets just conclude that she's a nice girl, but she is still immature and naive; there are still chances for her to mature and improve throughout the story.
It was everyone against two people, at most three people. And most of them weren't even presenting logical reasoning, so it can't be called an argument. But yes, lets spare them.
Okay, sorry! Yes, she doesn't seem to offer him stability in that way. She's not the type to always be there for him and to reach an understanding hand for him- talking about her usage as a character that's able to fit that position (you're talking about her usage as a character to develop the plot by the writer, no?). Because that stability could still be reached if he were to understand her position and what she can offer. If he were to know what was his and her position towards each other from the start, as it's reflected by all events, their behaviour towards each other could be different. Anyway, thank you! Even thought It's a bit late, I think that I've got/understand the meaning of your words.
Well, Dean have very generous views of people around him before, as I said. And how is he supposed to know? How could he know "his and her position towards each other from the start?" You are kinda demanding the impossible here.
Umm half is right half.is wrong.. He used cross but didint know it was a cross till it was over though... He just tried to cover the magic marks amd tried to cover the syab wound in his heart thats wgy it formed into a cross....
If Dean ends up with Jenny, then it would be as bad as if Linley ended up with his first love, that back stabbing bitch. Seriously, Jenny is wrong for Dean. Dean doesn't need someone who believes rumors despite the fact that she spent a year with him and claimed to love him. He needs someone who would accept the existence of the 'dark king' and the necessity of him as the current system is corrupt+bad-in-long-term
Are you really criticizing a 12 year old girl who is sheltered naive and loving daughter to her father? Saying that she shoukd be more mature and act like a grown up? Are you really reading this right or are you just imposing you idealism for a main girl? Like seriously the character of that girl is already good... Unlike othrr novels out there making them sinister ploting girls them force the Being inlove with the mc out of nowhere... This jenny is a shletered oujosan who hasnt even seen blood... If you think that girls her age in that kind of era and is a real noble not the bitch nobles of this era you woukd undestand also that girl woukd be easily manipulated thats why she doesnt beleive the mc since ALL CLUES OOINTS TOWARDS HIM. She studies the laws and has a corrupted by her familylaw instructor or bribed atorney. Anyone who has those circumstances would do the same thing she did.. Its already good that he aurhor made her refuse the arrange marriage her father arrange which is akso one of the reasons her father eants him gone or dead. No i believe thats what you want to think after all she only knows facts! And nothing else since she is just a kid... Dobt thibk just because she studies the law doest make her a detective ehy do yiu always forget that she is naive and innocent the author already said that alot... Her friend know she is smart the only problem ia that she is much too innocent and naive... The reason why she doesnt visit him is because thorny flower prison doesnt alloe visitors also her parents wont allow her.. You said she doesnt think about dean? Why does her friend know about him? Its because she talks about him Also she believe her father talking about imprisoning him only for 3-5 years and she also think high of the law whoxh made her think that he should do the time. She doesnt know that he is imprisoned for 130 years...also she wanted to help him but the condition is to for him to admit he is wrong. ( which to my opinion that her dad made her do so). It is precisely because people.are born not learned that she thought she cant trust the person she hold.the most dear.. After all all.evidence are poiting towards him higher authorities blames him her father blames him! I do beleive that there are other facts that would prove that he os not guilty if only she look more closely the problem is her dad wont let that happen she is a bird in a cage who cant do anything she like without approval. I believe she barelt passed it.. And the examiner just passed her with jus enough passing marks comsidering that i She is a high novels daughter .. Seriously why is your statement she forced him to hell? Does she know what its like in the prison? No. She only know what her dad tells her.. Being in confinement for 3-5 years... When in truth he is being sentened to death is the most dangerous prison inside their little world. Being tortured.. So your saying ignorance comnot be forgiven? Then yes and no if her circumstance there is nothing ahe can help because she is being manipulated and is powerless.
Uh... Yes? What? We are not allowed to do so? So what if she is naive and loving daughter. Is she allowed to do anything because of that? You can't criticize anyone because they are naive and loving? Alright, I'm naive and loving and young... now you are very wrong for criticizing me... does that make sense? No! I did not say that. Why are you assuming things. Those are my response to people who wants Jenny to be Dean's ground, or light, or waifu. I don't want her to any of those things, nor would it work. Why are you so easy in jumping to conclusions. Huh? Again, jumping to conclusions. You should not stop seeing things that isn't there. Good? Yes. I never said she is evil or something. Just that she isn't suitable to be Dean's 'ground' or 'light'. The more reason why Jenny isn't suitable as Dean's 'ground' or 'light' or worse 'wife'. And what do you mean Anyone would do the same thing? Anyone would come to the prison and force Dean to admit his mistakes. Essentially saying: "You are a lying thief who only loves money. I just want you to admit your sins but instead, you slander my father and the deacon. I'm so disappointed at you!" Do you really think anyone would do that? Be careful with using words like Anyone, Everyone and All, in your arguments. I have a hard time understanding this, but I'll try.
Same here sry dont know what im talking about when im rambling lol... Anyway i still think that for jenny to ve his ground that she has to experience some dark side... And change just a little bit like her friend but keep her lovable side lol
Oops, I pressed post. Again, ignorance or naivety is never an excuse! Because of her ignorance and naivety she has done a bad thing. That results to certain consequences. Just because she is ignorant or naive doesn't mean what she did will not have consequences. This is what you want?: She is naive and ignorant, so you should not criticize her. She is naive and ignorant so Dean should make her his waifu. ... GOOD GOD! And that is more reason why she isn't suitable as Dean's 'ground' or 'light.' In fact, she was part of the reason why Dean is embracing the dark, so to speak. And that is the problem. Innocent (more like ignorant) and naive. Not that I blame her, but that doesn't make her a good 'ground' and 'light' to Dean. She is too distant from reality to be so. I don't mean she should visit. I mean was that she at least keep track of Dean's situation. She and Dean are sweethearts before. She doesn't care anymore? Alright chapter 175: Sarah gently shook her head. “I gotta go today. Tomorrow there is a party I have to attend. Ah, yes, I’m here to tell you good news.” “Good news?” Jenny was surprised. Sarah Mel chuckled: “You know, the poet hunter from before. Recently he was released on bail. Tomorrow, I may meet him at the party.” “Hunter …” Jenny was startled and looked at her. “Y-You, you’re talking about Dean?” Sarah shrugged her shoulders: “I don’t remember his name but I know that he was released on bail. I think he is going to face a lot of trouble as the noble who got him bailed out also wants to set up a consortium.” Jenny was startled: “My father said that he couldn’t be released on bail because of what he had committed.” “What? Come on, it was just a theft. It’s very easy for us to bail him out. Especially families such as mine or yours.” Jenny bowed her head. “Yes, but jail time was fair to him. He was a trainee in magistrate so he could understand that he had to go to prison for theft.” Clearly you are wrong. It was her friend who brought Dean up, and in fact Jenny was startled because he was bailed. She thinks he should stay in prison. So what she believes, doesn't mean that she should forget about Dean. And help him? Hahahahaha!!!! Chapter 145: Jenny was startled: “My father said that he couldn’t be released on bail because of what he had committed.” “What? Come on, it was just a theft. It’s very easy for us to bail him out. Especially families such as mine or yours.” Jenny bowed her head. “Yes, but jail time was fair to him. He was a trainee in magistrate so he could understand that he had to go to prison for theft.” There! See? She believes that he should go to jail. Also chapter 141: Jenny’s body trembled: “I just want to hear you admit your sins. As long as you admit, I won’t care about anything. I will still be with you. I can forgive your crime. But you are still obsessed. You even try to frame my father. Moreover, you are slandering the deacon to cover your crimes. I am really… disappointed with you!” She doesn't want to help him. She just wants to hear him admit to his sins. If he admits, he can still be with her and forgive his crime. Help? Hahahahaha!!! Uh this is too long. I'll make another cut.
Spoiler Alright, this is really not the latest chapter discussion anymore. Anyways, Jenny will improve. And how do I know? Cause the raws hint it. So lets stop arguing and get on with the discussion for the latest chapters.
I do certainly like how the author goes on to develop his characters. It isnt determined how Jenny will develop into, but I have expectations considering the author had done well up to now.