Why writing Reviews is pointless!

Discussion in 'Novel Updates Site Discussion' started by Tasear, May 20, 2016.

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  1. Ratatoskr

    Ratatoskr [Aruruu's proud dad] [The False Gentleman]

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    you can. but on a review isn't the proper place, is it not? if you want to point it out to future readers, then a simple 'the translation is pretty bad' is enough. any extra resentment, take it to the translators themselves.
     
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  2. Tony

    Tony Moderator Staff Member

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    I have no clue how easy it is at this time. I would have to look into it another time.

    Tagging a group MTL would be good and it's simple to implement.
     
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  3. Astaroth

    Astaroth empty

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    Right, I think you've got to step back here, @Dream Seeker , and keep in mind that if Tony had to stick around for an hour to deal with every single reviewer one at the time he wouldn't even be done with the first wave befrore the 2nd is upon him even if he spent 24 hours every day on it.

    Just look, this thread was started before 10pm, and now it's past 11pm...

    Sure, it sucks, but if you're already this upset with this relatively minor issue, then what about Tony here? Is he going to have to deal with hundreds of times more suck than you instead?
     
  4. sal880612m

    sal880612m As I thought, love was a status effect! ~ICDS

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    No, not everbody does. If you want to trash a translator there are certainly places you can do that, but not here. And there is a marked difference between giving empty flattery and not allowing anonymous masses to express opinions about something without qualifications or proper oversight. Now if there was a group of professional translators that were responsible for rating the translations that would be a different matter, but most of the community never looks at the original and forms opinions about the quality based on how it compares to other works. Which is basically complete bullshit as a number of these works can be described as amateur or semi-professional, so it's entirely possible for the story to have things like bad grammar or simplistic sentence structure even before translation.
     
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  5. Green Apple

    Green Apple Actually I'm secretly an orange.

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    You know, if you name yourself as a translator, it doesnt mean you are translator. If all you do is copypaste awfull quality translation from some kind of MTL and ask for donation - I say "wtf is this?"

    I'd prefer to have another translator, who can translate better, otherwise this novel is doomed to have awfull translation. I dont think someone will actually retranslate it before previous guy drops it. And would he retranslate at all or just continue from that point?

    Thats harsh, but its better if he dont make everyone a favor with bad translation+donation and give a novel a chance to please readers with another translation while he practice his skills on some easy stuff that he can make readable. Otherwise its just a frustration for everyone who tries to go past the point of no return, reading shady MTL.
     
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  6. Tasear

    Tasear Well-Known Member

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    Oh I am not foolish to believe my review wasn't hostile, but if that series can stay listed on site and my aggressive review can't what the point of reviewing. Reviewing is meant to be a check and balance system for novels ( is it worth my time). There's plenty of reviews on site soling basing their review on the fact it's nothing but same Japanese novel with it' cliches or Chinese novel with its' cliches. There's not even substance to most of these reviews, but they go unchecked, because they go along with popular opinion.

    While I think it's ridiculous that you want us all to play friendly, but it doesn't work like that with non translation they have to face the audience. Then again contrary to my portray in this thread, I am reasonable. I can write in more passive and friendly tone and even somewhat basis in consideration with number of rating and number reviews, but like I said before... no guildlines means anything can be censure for lala reason.

    The point is reviews are usually freeform and I was mortified that they could be censured without warning or indication of reason. I broke no standing rules... I was simply "overpowered". Honestly, I am less but still angry how the issue was "first" addressed by mods in beginning. Clearly I didn't take a mature attitude but there's the customer service in sense since I am user of site. Who to say more issues won't come about and they won't be laughed, bashed or mocked at simply because the disagree with moderation.

    The fact I not sure if I wish to contribute anymore, but surely your thinking who cares after there's plenty of me, but there's not. I care enough about novels to share on what other might experience when reading the novel, and usually they are written in neutral tone, but I should be able to write to sensible aggressive review to shity writing and/or translation and there while not plenty of places there are other places to do so where I don't have to worry that contribution well vanish without reason nor notifications.

    Note:
    Are reviews based on enjoyment or quality of novel? Now that is the question.

    ~ Signing out, peace
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2016
  7. sal880612m

    sal880612m As I thought, love was a status effect! ~ICDS

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    Again the point of NU or NUF, as far as I can tell at least, is not to act as a regulatory body for translators. It's to aggregate the novels that get updated. Besides most of the people on NU/NUF aren't qualified or informed enough to make the call on whether a translation is bad or the original story is bad. If you want to pursue that goal you can, but you'll probably need to find somewhere else and some other way to do it. I'm relatively certain Tony is never gonna make it so there is a public rating for translators/translation groups.
     
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  8. Green Apple

    Green Apple Actually I'm secretly an orange.

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    You know, you are right about checking the translation and amateurs translating, but I was saying about such translation, where you literally cant even get what the hell is going on in the story. And because someone is "making translation" there is no chance for the better translator.

    I wasnt commenting about right and wrong in the review, I was commenting the situation why people get frustrated about translations so they go in the review to shitpost.
     
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  9. little king

    little king Ruler of Sloth [Neko-form]

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    You get what you sow...JK~

    Have fun doin what you want...Enjoy ヽ( ★ω★)ノ
     
  10. Tony

    Tony Moderator Staff Member

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    Everybody should play friendly? You are free to rant about a novel all you want and be as hostile as you want towards a novel. I just don't want you to be THAT hostile towards the translator. You could've changed your language and I would probably approved it. Just remember that you're reviewing a novel, not the translator. A sentence or two about the translator is normally fine as long as the language is okay. There's no guidelines on writing a review and I already said that was my fault. I will write one when I get the time.

    I'm sorry that you felt angry about how your issue was addressed by the moderators. The moderators aren't perfect and we're also users of the site. If there's a next time, you could just send me a PM.

    As for you writing more reviews, I would like you to continue as I like some of your reviews but that's up to you. You obviously feel wronged so I won't blame you if you stop. Everybody has a different opinion on what's a good and bad review.

    No matter how you see me @Dream Seeker, I really do appreciate you taking your time writing all of those reviews.
     
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  11. Tasear

    Tasear Well-Known Member

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    Okay... I know I said I was leaving, but have you guys seen what you are defending? It's not even good enough to be considered MTL. I mean it not joking nor sacasim it's nearly literally an copy and paste of free online translation such google translator. There's no visible effort into making it any close to be readable.

    Translation are should be apart of reviewing process, as translators don't seem decrypt they re illustrate the prose to fit the target language. especially when it's so so visible bad as Doom Lord. Like seriously I have enough justifiable hate to notice the review was gone the next day. Though my first review was nicer until it got deleted. After all illustrated what translation was lacking in quality and story wasn't story enough to support such an lack of effort on translator part. To be honestly as somewhat of translator myself.. what he or she was doing was equivalent to fraud and audience deserved to be aware.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2016
  12. Tasear

    Tasear Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I appreciate the comment... above my previous post( came at the same time). I going to cool my head, and see where life takes me. If I continue, I will act with more rationality. But do hope there will be some of these problem will be address. As I honestly don't feel secure about writing reviews good or bad. So thanks tony for taking proper stands on my sour attitude and looking at underlining issue at hand.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2016
  13. sinyueliang

    sinyueliang 『World Traveller』『Demon Slayer』『Hinokami』

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    A little late, but my opinion - it doesn't matter who they are defending or not. Even if the translator is shit, I feel like you shouldn't outright shit talk them so much when you're reviewing the novel. I agree that you should be reviewing the story, not the translation. Sure, remarks such as "the grammar isn't good" or "the translation is not that accurate" or "this is an MTL" are appreciated and pretty helpful, but just full out dissing the translator is pushing it, and honestly, I feel a waste of my time to read. Like, I get it, the translator isn't good. No need to continue demeaning them. But this is just imo :V
     
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  14. Cien

    Cien 『Omnivore Reader』Inactive

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    I've always thought book reviews also involve in the writing style of the author, whether its quality is good or bad. In the case of translated novels, you can't criticize the style it is translated/edited? I didn't know translators/groups were immune to such criticism. And just because there is criticism, it doesn't mean its resentment.

    Maybe it should be labelled "STORY reviews" instead of just "Reviews" because clearly NU seem to want to review only the story and now how the quality it is translated as. Easy problem solved.
     
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  15. sinyueliang

    sinyueliang 『World Traveller』『Demon Slayer』『Hinokami』

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    There's a fine line between criticism and resentment :V I always appreciate criticism. But once you discard respect and start full out bashing the group, isn't that more resentment? Idk, I just think it's a waste of time to read, or even to write, a review that's pretty much one line "this story was bleh" and then the rest is "these translators are [insert censor]" or whatnot.
     
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  16. Ratatoskr

    Ratatoskr [Aruruu's proud dad] [The False Gentleman]

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    you can. but doing so in the review is pretty much pointless. i'm pretty sure something like 'why are people donating for this crappy translation' is resentment. any dissatisfaction of the quality you can just forward it to the translators group, they are reachable no? if nothing change, then hey, they really must be immune. hahaha
     
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  17. makenai89

    makenai89 The Divine Procrastinator

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    It's already [insert novel title] Reviews, not [insert novel title] Translation Reviews.
    And there are plenty ways to inform would-be readers that the translation is lacking without bashing the translator. I've often see "the translator needs an editor" or "if you can get over the bad translation" or my choice of words "the translation leaves much to be desired", but then followed by a proper review of the novel spanned around 90% of it. That's not bullying the translator, and the main focus is still the novel itself.
    Just like in RL, at workplace or in society, criticism's great, but no less important is HOW you convey it.
     
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  18. sal880612m

    sal880612m As I thought, love was a status effect! ~ICDS

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    Problem is, most NU users can't determine whether the issue is translation, editing, or writing because they don't know the language. It's not as if you can't mention the issues, it's more about the amount of attention you give it and the attitude you take. If you make direct insults or attacks towards the translator it's not okay. I'm not sure what would happen in the case of a direct attack against an author but I don't imagine that would be okay either. For me if you spend more than a sentence commenting on the translation you have focused on it too much. For an open and public system like NU more than that is inappropriate.

    The translation is awkward at times.
    The story flows nicely but details are lost in translation.
    The translation feels incomplete and in need of editing, as the English grammar is highly flawed.
    At several points the tense the story is in changes.
    This is a fairly standard MTL, the sentences are short and simplistic.
    Translator and Editor notes are riddled through each chapter.
    The work uses a lot of pinyin terms that are defined in a (footnote/glossary).

    One sentence is enough. There isn't any reason for any more than that here. Take it up with the translator if you have more to say.

    If you really wanted to have translation ratings I would say you would need a QA department of translators who all meet a certain standard and only they would be allowed to rate translations.
     
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  19. Shio

    Shio Moderator Staff Member

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    Reviewing a novel based on the translator is similar to reviewing a movie based on the subtitle.
     
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  20. Ai chan

    Ai chan Queen of Yuri, Devourer of Traps, Thrusted Witch

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    But if the translator pretty much mutilated an otherwise good or fairly good story with crappy translation either because they MTL or just don't care, shouldn't there be a mention on the fiction page on how much the translator sucks juice? Some people get really pissed with terrible translation and readers should get a peace of mind that the book they're reading at least has passable translation. Personally I'm not pissed by slow translation, but terrible translation really soured me to the story, regardless if the translator changed.

    For example, I once read the page for Bringing A Farm To Another World and got completely turned off by the horrible synopsis written by the first translator. It took me like 50 chapters later that I gave the book a try because the synopsis became better. If the translation (and not the story) sucks, they should be commented on. Hell, there have been a few titles of which I couldn't make heads or tails of the first two chapters. I'm pretty sure the book wasn't as crappy in its original language.

    Please take note that I said 'a mention', not a full length description of how the translator needs to kick the bucket.
     
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