Discussion WTA: Voting requests from a certain novel site

Pre-Qi GT admins made some threads asking to vote their novels, no one complained. Some random Qi fans made some threads asking to vote, you lost your shit.

Stop with your double standard dude, it's disgusting.

 

Sometimes it happens that a man's circle of horizon becomes smaller and smaller, and as the radius approaches zero it concentrates on one point. And then that becomes his point of view.

 

Publishers absolutely need readers. That's how they get money; they sell a product (books), and people (readers) buy that product. That's like saying Walmart doesn't need shoppers.
Aside from sales, publishers can also make money through advertising and franchising. Both of those also depend on having readers first. Nobody will want to advertise in a publication that nobody reads, and a book that nobody reads isn't going to be adapted to other media or sell toys or anything else.

The publishers (namely Qidian) clearly think that the forums here have quite a bit of power. And even if it's NU that has most of the power and not the forums directly, and only a minority of NU users use the forums, the forums clearly still effect changes to NU and can have a massive impact to publishers. I don't think you can reasonably separate NU and the NU forums into two distinct powers.

I'm not sure I understand the relevance of these points though. It sounds like you're saying that QI shouldn't advertise here, I don't see any arguments against the OP's point beyond your first post.

 

Make novel updates great again! lets build an anti-spam wall!!!!

 

Publishers just need popular authors. They do not need to try to get readers.
It is the job of the author.
I think you are mistaking authors with publishers

 

What's wrong with your head, Spiritsong? You accuse me of getting paid to advertise for QI and now you basically start a thread in response to my thread. All I wanted to do was get people to vote and get more chapters of Stealing the Heavens (which I really like) out. Also, I didn't know they had a forum in QI and even if I did, I would post it here since more people are on this forum.
I don't know if you have some beef with QI or not but don' t lump all QI readers as paid soldiers.
Vote for Stealing the Heavens

 

Regarding users of the forums posting particular content... if it constitutes "spam" or is "spam-like" then it is, in theory, not to be done in accordance with the Terms and Rules of use. If the Terms of Service from the actual 'NU non-forum' web address apply that also includes "advertising or business related communications."

However, at what point does the content become "spam"? The sending or creation of multiple unsolicited messages, posts or content certainly could be considered "spam" and often when done for marketing purposes but typically the content becomes an issue when it becomes a disruption. Then you could also consider, at what point does it become truly disruptive and not merely content that some are not in favor of encountering? In theory, most of my post have been unsolicited and may have been disliked by several users. While that has not been the goal of any what I have posted, some might wish to not see it there if it does not align with what they agree or disagree upon... so, for some it might be spam-like. Although, I don't necessarily agree with that viewpoint, not that anyone has said as much (well, not yet at the least).

Censoring content, in my opinion, often should not be done just because I don't like the originator of the content (but that is a whole other conversation if you want to start getting into the free speech venue). However, these forums made available for public use do remain privately owned and the owner does reserve the right to allow or not allow content as they see fit.

Also NU promotes the reading of novels/translated content, among other things. So, censoring them here may conflict with that unless they were actually disruptive to the operation of the NU service and/or blatantly violated the Terms and Rules in a manner that has been consistent with previous actions that made use of disciplinary action (or use of the 'ban hammer').

I will agree with one thing. You should not remain silent if you feel an issue is worth discussing. While the degree to which it may be considered worthwhile or not is debatable by some... having the discussion at least allows any public opinion of the matter (for those that participate) be known and if necessary any action be taken, even if that may be clarification of any subjective Terms and Rules (not that I necessarily think this to be the case).

 

And why does the publisher care about having popular authors, if not for the readers?
It's the publisher that makes the author popular, more often than not. Also, having popular authors is only one method of achieving the publisher's goal of getting more readers. Publishers also handle marketing, advertising, franchising, etc., all in order to get more readers.

To continue the store analogy: The publisher is the store. The authors are the suppliers of products for the store to sell. The readers are customers of the store. Stocking products that sell well (having authors who write popular books) isn't all that the store cares about; the store also advertises those products to make them sell better, and advertises itself as the seller of those products, and ultimately desires to get more customers because customers are where the money comes from.

Everything a publisher does revolves entirely around readers.

 

Yeah in brick and mortar system, but the internet has changed all that.
A good example is Xiaomi phones,they do not advertise at all
They rely on word of mouth from their consumers
The way the world works has changed. That is why brick and mortar stores are failing
Toys R Us just filed for bankruptcy
It is a new world out there.
I am working to be an online publisher myself, so I have been researching it.
Take the author of Worm for example, through rankings like Webfiction guide he got scouted by a publisher
Now it is dumb to take a chance on an unknown author.
Smart publishers recruit only popular authors that is why Syosetu model works so well.
Brick and Mortar stores are so 2010 haha
Nice discussion

 

Your analogy is really off base. You can't really say that site is "unwelcome" when novel updates picks up their rss feed and displays it to novelupdates users.

 

I'm not sure if I'm able to quote all, but if I missed any, please do tell me. I meant to quote all that have quoted me.

There's something about this that I would explicate upon, seeing that I did say that some space were intruded. Here's how I see it.

1) NUF doesn't own this space, but this space is definitely affliated with NUF. When I say this space, I meant in spesific "NUF General Discussion" sub-folder.

2) If that other site wants to have their own space, they can create it. I'm not sure if they have, or they don't have. I only know that they have their own forum. So that is THEIR space to do whatever they want. I don't want to do anything with them, so I don't go into their space. Right now, they have people coming in to this space, promoting activities in that space, that requires sign up to that space. I'm fine with that promotion. However, when you have multiple, repetitive promotions for different 'products' but you still have to do it in their space, then I find it 'annoying'. Because I consider this to be a spam.

Unless they own this space, which I believe they do not. And no, I'm not interested in their activities nor do I wish to partake in that. I'm good enough as to not go into their space and yell at those thrashes for coming into this space and spam with activities in their space.

No. I'm speaking up because I'm concerned with the increased activities to spam "please vote for this that at this that this that nonsense website". When I don't speak up, it means I tacitly approve that such actions are okay. I'm raising up my concerns because I don't think and feel that this is okay.

I agree with you about the threshold of nuisance (like when does it become a spam?)

That is why I suggested way earlier on, probably create a new subforum, and let all those who want to promote whatever, use that subforum. They need that attention, but not at the expense of every interested party comes crashing at the novelupdates general section, or general chat, etc. They sure need that attention, but I don't like having to see general chat, or general discussion flooded with inane requests about voting for a certain novel, right in general discussion.

You know, when you're in the general section of the forums, only to be spammed with ridiculous requests for vote, that is off topic, and I think that they did it in a wrong space, I feel that space analogy is apt.

I'm pretty sure that they didn't come to me. But when I see the threads in a forum flooded with "please vote for this" and goes unchecked, I am starting to think if this behaviour is okay or not okay.

Granted, if there is a subsection for it, then it HAS to be okay. However, the marking of space doesn't necessarily mean it has to be mine, or theirs, or his, or hers. However, a general observation can be made. For example, if NUF designated a certain section for certain things, then of course you're not going to do something that wasn't designed to be in that space, no?

The other thing is, this requires participation in their forums. Its not that I'm not okay with it. What I'm not okay with, is one after another keep asking for a similar thing "vote for this, vote for that", in a completely alien space. Like I said, they need all that exposure and interests they can get. Sure. However, barging in at another place just to promote something at another place (which has almost zero relevance to this place?) Not to mention the owner of that place isn't the most gracious of host as well too. (They don't play nice at all).

If I'm interested in their content, I would have partaked without even bothering this space. But no, they have to come over and begin flooding with "please vote for this, please vote for that". In various places. Just keep them in one side that's out of sight and out of reach (that is legal, like a subsection just for that), and I think those who want to ignore can ignore, those who don't want to ignore can visit that space just to see what's up for them to vote for.

Win win.

You know, I'm about to actually ask why not involve those who keep talking about ....

owai-

ain't happening.

Nice try. For the record, I speak my mind loud at anything I find ain't right.

Pre-QI GT? Nice try. You're implying as if I know that Pre-QI GT is QI based. You know, there's a cantonese saying,
"Zhou Qi Fatt Tat, Chee Qi Lei Qi Mat?"

(Those who are in know earlier, they turn rich. Those who know later, what do they know?) It is both an idiom, but also a sarcastic remark to hindsight.

Again, if I knew those bastards were already Qi by then, I wouldn't even have worded hopes for them.

Now that you've mentioned it, perhaps I should sift through some of the posts, and then just edit to say "serves you right GT". But if I do that, I'll risk necroing the thread, and get banned.

Nice try there though. Good bait.

 

You're more eyesore than that whatever thread dude.
I wouldn't even know that kind thread exist if not for this hate thread of yours.

 

No, I don't. But if somebody starts a thread like you did, I won't hesitate to ask that question, just like how i've pestered other QI-paid minions like a certain JungleLucian and other "market researchers" who tried to goad and cajole positive responses to certain establishments with bad rep caused by themselves.

Like I said, you want to ask for votes? That's your rights and privileges to exercise, which I've explained very clearly in the first post (to which I question if you even bother to read it, or else why would you make such remarks, though I'm pretty sure if you have read that opening post, your remarks would have been slightly different, not just worded the way you worded it in this post).

Now you know. To throw back the same thing, its the same. I never knew such threads seeking for votes existed, until they turned up one by one (of course, by the very thread starters).

Isn't that the same thing?

 

Qid-ians are actually kids in adult clothing !
You actually expect expect them to behave like responsible adults ?

 

It is in Novel General which is the proper section for it.

Novel General is for "Talking about a Translator(s)/Group status" as one of the options. Since the release is based on a vote, that is in sense a status.

General Chat would also be fine too if it ends up there. Which section did it end up in that it was not suppose to be?

I also would not say it has almost 0 relevance. Since releases of asian novels are considered based on the vote, it has relevance to this place. What do you think this forum exists for anyways?

 

If let's say, just say that it's meant to be there, then fine. However, my original question still stands. After all, without sounding like a broken record, does it have to be promoted here?

I'm basing this with the feedbacks

1) you can ignore, by ignoring or blocking (which I and another forumer had agreed its not exactly the best long term-solutions for those in the same boat)

2) at least no known filters to remove such threads from the view (but doesn't stop them from spamming it), again, you're saying its fine in general discussion, and i'm just going to take the flow of discussion in the vein of assuming its fine, at least for now.

 

The question is silly by nature. The answer is both yes and no, does any thread need to be here? It is here because users chose to post them here, simple as that.

Ignoring is your only option. Long term solution or not, it is no different than you not liking a certain genre of novel. Just like in life, the long term solution is ignoring, time solves everything.

If you are asking mods to modify premade forum software, you are out of luck. If it really bugs you, you can make a script that will hide these threads from you to some extent.

 

If you are asking mods to modify premade forum software, you are out of luck. If it really bugs you, you can make a script that will hide these threads from you to some extent.[/QUOTE]

Probably, but I don't have the technical know-how to do that, and besides, if somebody's out there to really wanting to bypass that, they would have just worded it differently anyway.

Ignoring is one thing. Not speaking up to tacitly agree, is another. That's how I looked at it.

 

Unlikely, if that happened it would be rare. Specifically since they are not going to bother doing so, so it would be a coincidence. Even QI has not bothered fixing the blockage of their adwall.

Since there is a bunch of precedence for it from GT doing it to Voltaire and some others, I don't think you are going to find too many that agree that this is somehow different.

But if you want your question answered. I'll give 2 examples of possibilities.

QI users: Those who participate in the forum already voted and their novel of choice is losing so they go to other places to post.

QI themselves: Not every member who reads QI stuff or even joins participates in their forum. Even for NU, majority don't visit the forum.

Personally though, I don't care for QI one way or the other(neutral), since I am not interested in any of the releases up for vote, I don't bother. But if they had a release that I wanted, I may be tempted to make an account and vote (though maybe not, when votes go over a few hundred whats one vote). But either way, even if I did, I still wouldn't post on their forums. I don't even visit their site unless a release is posted on NU. (Of course if NU hypothetically banned them in the future then I'd probably check them once a day or so. I still wouldn't post on their forums)

 

It seems like you stuck in the past... Most publishers don't go through the hassle of advertising unknown authors anymore. They skipped that. They just making it easier to own the novels physically in different part of regions.

Are you actually retarded? I'm talking about GT that wasn't owned by Qi yet as of that time asking for votes, no one had any bad things to say but now QI (some fans) did the same, you're mad. Pre-Qi GT meant it wasn't owned by QI. You can't even read.