Spoiler Latest Chapter Discussion Thread for Death Mage Raws

While what you are saying make a lot of sense to me(people in real life doing extremist stuff in the name of god), Bellwood kinda goes against this example since his guidence has influence on gods instead of other way around so either gods influence isnt as great as we expect or Bellwood guidence is somehow stronger then it should be, possibly awakened guidence ?

 

On Bellwood, it is possible that his enchantment skill awakened at some point, thus greatly increasing its effect on some select ones, after all Zakkart also had a guider and during the war between Alda and Vida most of the gods were on the side of Vida.
Now about Vandalieu, the reason I think your guide skills will awaken to a divine version is because among those Vandalieu guides those who consider him a god and also because he has already reached the area of the gods.

 

don't forget Van did Guide the 3 goddess from Aldas side, i think its more that guidance is easier on people which feel the same way in the first place, at the time Bellwood was about he was spreading a message that was basically 'save our world from the invaders (including Earth culture)' which matched most of the other Gods thought anyway so they probably got guided easier and it was said that once guided you start to agree more with the person who is guiding you.
For example Vans guidance of the cultivation towns and how quickly they accepted undead vs the latest bunch who are still half way guided because they can't accept the undead as they weren't fully guided before moving.
i believe its also time based as Van needs a week to guide some and a few days for others, where as Bellwood spent years on the front lines with most of the gods and that's likely how he managed to guide them so thoroughly.

 

Well, that's probably no big deal really considering his exp was already maxed for Vengeful Berserker.

 

Wait a minute since when Van max his armor and shield art? Well with god as his enemy it's probaly really fast leveling, it's likely it's become Demon King Armor and shield tech

 

First of all, @heiro001 , you magnificent man/woman, you are more than we deserve.

So the EG were technically still members of the DK army, they have intentions of joining Zakkart and Vida, but due to Merrebeveil leaving, the DK 'tightened' th security of his army so that no one else changed sides. Then Marisfajah tells how at the time he fought Maris, God of the South Sea as Fajah, Evil God of the Crimson Sea, gravelly injuring each other, then DK 'died' before they could end the fight and Fajah proposed to fuse together to be able to survive, which Maris agreed, becoming the current Marisfajah, God of the Crimson South Sea (he mention later on that Fajah more or less was cosumed by the Maris personality, with Maris becoming the base for the new god).

After that he and other gods decide to hide away in the DK continent for various reason (mainly to not be killed by Alda after he won against Vida), taking mermaid, centaurs, human, dwarf and elves with them (they also discuss about how neither Alda nor Belly can understand the prayers of their believers). They make a cave less than a third of the total space of the DK continent since Alda's group would immediatelly zoom in on any activity on the surface. When Nineroad gives the advice to take the magicians in charge of purifying the place to more productive places, they notice that the miasma quickly thickens, sipping into the cave making monster spawn from the ceiling and the dungeon become harder, with Botin's seal in particular attracting it because of the DK's mana on it. The Vida's races, stong as they are, control it to some extent.

After about a 1000 years a giant god who joined the DK coms to them with some giants an elves seaking assylum since he and his followers will just be killed by Alda without even hearing him out. The giant the tell them about how th only reason he joined the DK was because he wanted to survive and that after the DK 'died' he genuinelly wanted to repent for what he did. The gods let him stay, because they couldn't really let Alda kill the giants since they wanted to appeal to Vida, letting time tell if he really repented. At some point thay decide to put up a barrier to only allow Vida's races to see the cave, when the matter about the traitor vampires come up, they decide that since they are not that many they can handle them when the time comes, they also leave some Baby Kraken to guard the entrance, letting them naturally evolve to no bring any suspicion. One of them give the fantastic idea of making it able to fly for whatever reason.

A hundred years before the current point, Mushy the Mushroom joins with some mermaid bringing news of the outside world and the current state of the situation. After seeing Quattro patroling the area and Van on board, they immediatelly notice how he must be Vida's envoy and send messages to welcome him.

The new EG are:

-Poverz, Evil God of Viscera (an humanoid god made up of various organs)
-Louyufifi, Evil God of Bones Fang (Knochen knock off)
-Vuonenakarua, Evil God of Promiscuous Skin (glossy god)
-Djerübufan, Evil God of Degenerating Muscle (meat god)
-Zōzaseiba, Magic/Evil/Demon Snow Mountain Giant (yeti like giant)
-Peryazeird, Evil God of Evil Poison Mushrooms (aka best god)

Due to worshiping this gods, the centaurs became Glaistigs, faunus like females of scotish mythology, Androscopions, scorpion version of the Arachnes, and Snow Ice Titans, yeti version of Titans. Because of the all female Vida's races giving birth almost exclusively more females races, the gods started to fear that eventually there would be no more males to procreate, so they start experimenting in creating human Humunculus with the first four gods combining their expertise to make them.

After they end the recap, they discuss with VAn about metting with Vida and the other gods with VAn telling them that they will most likely get accepted, with Zōzaseiba most likely going to have a really serious conversation with Talos and/or Diana.

Also Gufa somehow end up having less precense than Van, spooking the gods when they talk. Somehow.

After Van new status list we get the effect and condicions for some of his new-ish titles: Black Blood Emperor was obtained for mutating others with his blood and give a bonus for that. Dragon Emperor can be given to oneself or a sufficiently powerful god, though it is mentioned that if you give it to yourself Tiamat may want a word or two with you, it gives the standard Emperor titles bonuses. Finally, Vengeful Berserker strengthen and make it easier to obtain voice based skills including singing, which Van doesn't get because he is aweful at it.

 

That could be considered a flaw of the status/skills/job system - that earned exp can be wasted if you've already maxed your level.

In-world it's only been a few days I think since we last saw Van's status though, which is probably the main reason why the changes are small. However, there is a sense that it's hard to determine exactly what is causing Van's stats to change every time. It's a bit of a shame but it's very minor.

 

Even if this is pointed out to whatever gods are quantifying the experience and levels and handling the job system, fixing the job lost experience glitch would just make everyone, especially Van, just that more grossly overpowered. Recall that when Van defeated Ice Age, he was way too weak to kill part of a god singlehandedly, but was able to do so anyway because Ice Age was stuck as a divine artifact. If experience carried over to other jobs, and if Van could gain experience independently, his levels would have gone through the roof numerous times when Ice Age was destroyed. For story purposes, keeping things this way is a neat handicap that levels the playing field.

The Vengeful Berserker job probably doesn't provide much in the way of bonuses, stat-wise. I was under the impression that it provides far more in the way of skill bonuses and other effects, though. It's one of the jobs that Van could have taken years ago. To my understanding, the job became available because Van used the Scream skill as a weapon, although it did happen by accident during a trippy temper tantrum. While obviously rare, this job isn't anywhere near as overpowered as the Guidance jobs or the God jobs. Incidentally, Rudra seems to be a superior version of Vengeful Berserker, so I'd like to see what it does. I'm willing to bet that Rudra would awaken Scream to Roar, or something else appropriate.
Anyway, you're in luck. Van just chose a Guider job specifically for the big stat boosts.

 

In all of this, we also have to keep in mind that he is also STILL gaining stat bonuses for both his old jobs and also his divine protections. I forget where it was mentioned, but I seem to recall it mentioning in a few places as though it's accepted common sense that the "job history" does not mean they no longer have that job, it still continues to give stat and skill growth corrections.

I think Kari said it, the reason his stat growths didn't break 1000 (and remember, a normal human in a world without the job system has stats averaging around 10,) is because it's only been a matter of a few days since he changed jobs to Vengeful Berserker in the first place.

On that note, actually, that point completely unravels the basis behind this argument in the first place. In-world, I think it has been around 2-3 days since the end of the previous arc, and one of the very last things he did in the previous arc was change his job. This means, unless he leveled up with them fighting more Krakens during the trip (admittedly likely,) he likely leveled up during the fight with the gods. So, either he leveled up before the fight watching his friends fight flying krakens, or even with him being the one who dealt the final blow his friends bashing the gods over the head a few times before he did that was enough to drive him to Lv. 100.

 

Certainly from a literary point of view these things are probably just as well. For example, if we consider an alternative scenario where Van could gain exp independently and had ranks and rank levels as well as jobs and job levels then his stats etc would have gotten even crazier even faster even if this job flaw skill existed.

However... from an in-world perspective, it's actually a real flaw, though more so in the past than now. This system was originally introduced in response to the invasion from the Demon King - it didn't exist before as the world was very peaceful. Dungeons didn't even exist until quite a bit later, for example. In other words, these design flaws would actually harm the war effort. During the war, it would probably be hard to earn exp in a steady manner as most opportunities would likely be during proper battles - people were soldiers, not adventurers. Imagine a soldier or similar going into battle at level 90 in a particular job and they reach 100 quite quickly - all the extra exp after then would be wasted. Putting another way, it distorts people's incentives - for example, if someone has reached level 100 during battle it would demotivate them. If they almost reached level 100 during battle it would possibly give them incentives to grind the remaining exp afterwards but if that's not safe (due to most monsters being in large groups during the war) then that's actually harmful.

It's certainly not a big issue though. My general impression is that if people take a job that's appropriate to their overall ability then normally it would take some time to reach level 100. So even in a major battle, a soldier with an appropriate job would not be gaining dozens of levels, probably, so it would be unlikely that they'd ever waste many job levels (a few percent perhaps). However, Van takes big mix of jobs - some are low level and some are very high level. Killing gods while having a low level job would max it instantly and so be rather wasteful. If he has very high level jobs though then it's less of an issue but still somewhat wasteful.

To me, "Howl" feels more appropriate than "Roar" but anyway. Slightly surprised it didn't end up as something more conventional - eg "banshee's wail" or the like but maybe we should expect Van's jobs/skills to reach god level in general now?

Not just that but his general attitude seems to be that he's more willing to take the more dangerous sounding (and higher level) jobs. There should be plenty of exp here so maybe we'll see Van going through quite a few high level jobs in this arc. It would be nice to see his available job list actually shrink a bit.

 

can someone explain how Vengeful Berserker is related to sound based skills?
i do understand it in the context of how van got it but from its name it should be possible to get it in other ways, like sending a lot of assassins at your target of revenge and having fits when they can't kill it. to me it sound like a job that you get when you go berserk because of your target of revenge. how is that related to sound?
hmm:because berserkers scream a lot? can't think of anything better)

 

It's rather loose isn't it. Maybe I'm missing something but I can't really see much beyond what you discuss above.

怨狂士 somewhat literally translates as "grudge mad warrior". This grudge itself could be very deep or more centred around jealousy but by itself it's not related to sound that I can tell. It does have a minor sense of being something spoken though and there are words like 怨み言 (grudge; complaint; reproach) and 怨み節 (song with lyrics about resentment and a sorrowful tune) in that line but it's very much at the margins, as far as I'm aware.

I'm not sure how the God of Jobs came up with that one... at least with regards to the actual naming. The best I can think of is that Van's deep grudge (against Heinz) made him go mad/insane during which he screamed which caused others to attack the target of his grudge. But anyway...

 

Maybe like a banshee? Being so full of anger and lust for vengence that he screams his grudge? Bit of a stretch for this job I think.

 

Something like that. The Job innitially appeared after Van first real encounter with Heinz, after running from the city, full of self-loathing for not being able to do anything against him, he started to create a dungeon and enchoach anything and everything around him (including the woman who would later become Eisen) using only his hatred imbued screams. If I remember right there is an actual Berzerker Job but is not written in kanji, so calling the Job Vengeful Berzerker would not really be an acurate translation, calling it Grudgeful Mad Warrior would be more accurate (if less charming) translation.

In resume, the Vengeful part of the name is because of how he obtained it, it probably also enhance his encroachment skills but I don't remember anymore, and the Mad Warrior part is probably because he was 'attacking' others with only his screams indiscriminatelly or maybe because there is the common phrase of 'screaming madman', which Van totally was at the time.

Edit: Forgot to mention, it also said in the explanation that Rudra is a superior version of VB but that it can't be obtained unless one have entered in the demigod class, specifying that it is about upper A to S class adventurers.

 

I think dungeon are exist before demon King come if not, how can every one know that Ricklent the genie of time can make dungeon?. Talking about dungeon, i think Ricklent can give Van-Sama a Miko Tittle that way Van-sama can make dungeon even in public. Not mention Van-sama can make Ricklent statue in front of dungeon and have people pray to him.
Also the job system already in process tk complete before demon king invasion because Zuruwarm and Ricklent facinating with game system in another world. It just the timing of invasion probaly really close with the system made or incoperating to the world.

Well Van-Sama already entering that realm. But i hope Van didn't gain Divine area yet as we know precence of Zantark the God of Fire and destruction changing environment around him.

 

Are you referring to this, perhaps?
https://lightnovelbastion.com/release.php?p=1253

Neither Ricklent or Zuruwarn are specifically related to dungeons but they are specifically skilled in magic and space, both of which would be related to dungeons.

There's also this about Ricklent:
https://lightnovelbastion.com/release.php?p=1014

https://lightnovelbastion.com/release.php?p=1251

There's another reference to the Demon King creating dungeons here:
https://lightnovelbastion.com/release.php?p=723

Are you perhaps confusing Ricklent with Gufadogarn (the evil god[ess] of dungeons)?

Ricklent is already worshipped properly:

 

Nope, i just want Van action to make dungeon have backup from Ricklent who can make dungeon.

I think there explanation when Van discover dungeon on first time.
Edit : i found it
Dungeons. They were originally breeding facilities created by the Demon King to multiply his monster subordinates and increase their individual strength. Afterwards, Ricklent, the genie of time and magic, used his secret magic to turn them into places that humans could use to train and obtain materials

 

So, do you still advocate for attaching Ricklent's divinity to dungeons? This feels very dangerous to me - changing how a god is worshipped has huge effects and would likely be very painful for Ricklent in the short term. Also, Ricklent's current worshippers aren't likely to start crawling dungeons. It also feels rather unnecessary when we already have a specialist god who is directly helping Van with dungeons. What are you expecting Ricklent to do that Gufadogan isn't already doing?

 

Ricklent is a god of scholars, right? He can teach Van all sorts of helpful things about dungeons. However, he usually doesn't interfere with whatever Van is doing, for better or for worse. Van would have to ask for Ricklent's help to get him to do most things.

By the way, don't Van's dungeons have soulless monsters because they're not connected to the Demon King's system? The monsters are automatically born but aren't acknowledged by any system that can give them souls, if I'm not mistaken.

 

Sorry, i have little vocabulary. It seem what i want to convey can't get across nicely.
I want Van-Sama have legitimate reason to make dungeon with Ricklent position as 11 Great God because evil god is not really good for publication.no no no even if Ricklent worshiped like what i said, he will not change because he already known as the great god who have affinity make dungeon. let's just add small shrine for Vida and Ricklent to make public know that Ricklent is on Vida side.