Spoiler Latest Chapter Discussion Thread for Death Mage Raws

When you think about the overall situation of outside and inside the boundary mountain range it's quiet funny really, the lands watched over by the God of law is almost constantly in a state of war and is full of corruption. However, the lands ruled by a crippled goddess of life is in constant harmony, except for that one war in its 100,000 years of history caused by outside factors.

I believe that the overall peace in vida's factions means that they can focus more resources on education and craftsmanship, this is helped by the fact that the guardian races (vida's races/sentient monsters) can have 100+ years in service instead of the alda's factions soldiers (adventurers) 30~ years of service (if there lucky).

so, in conclusion, vidas races have enough spare manpower to educate their population and once educated they stay in service for alot longer than aldas population, whilst aldas population is almost entirely human and they dont have the spare manpower to educate the masses with anything other than the basic language used, plus the constant wars and infighting with aldas ban on technology, means that they are mostly only losing technology over time, there might be some gain over time but it would be insignificant compared to the countries inside the mountain range that believe in constant improvement.

 

Well the question of which develops a land faster War or Peace is a classic in both the world and in Science Fiction. It's an open question though the Orson Welles line from 'The Third Man' is probably the most amusing answer.
" You know what the fellow said – in Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace – and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."

In this case, though, Bellwood's broad, vague ban on technology has been the deciding factor. 'No non-native technology. No Earth technology.' Given their complete inability to determine where that line would go it could only end in eternal stagnation until his influence is removed. It's hard to tell if it was his ego or his desire to suppress technological advancement was more responsible for this destruction of the memory/history/achievements of the creation champions.

 

yeah i have to agree that war is what drives countries to gain a technological advantage over the other, which in a normal world would mean that alda should have something stonger than nukes by now (with 100,000 years of infighting) but the deciding factor is their ideology and the fact that aldas religion stunts technological growth directly, whilst vidas religion is constantly trying to outdo itself, and they have stronger monsters overall too test there technology against, although this means that vidas faction will never truly have any good strategies in an all out war against an organised army.

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about the last half of your last paragraph, i believe it was a mixture of both, but mostly his desire to suppress technological growth as that appears to be how he works.

 

He knows about deterioration amount the commoners, but Selene is a nobles daughter

 

Honorary noble's daughter, and only since the Hartner duchy arc.

 

Well while I'm not a big fan of Bellwood myself I figured I'd leave that element out there for anyone who wants to defend him. You can make a good argument that he removed the Creation Champions from the world's history because he didn't want people who didn't agree with him and didn't follow his lead to be remembered. It's a slightly less selfish, egotistical view if you say that he suppressed them not to be petty but because their teachings were directly in conflict with his desire to block technology to preserve the 'natural perfection' of Lambda. (Arguably his 'I'm superior enough to know what you should or shouldn't do with technology' is still pretty arrogant. But it is still somewhat less obnoxious than 'You guys didn't agree with me so I'm going to wipe your achievements from the history books.'

This does leave the issue of how complicit Bellwood was in the Creation Champions' deaths aside. As significant as that is we still don't have enough information to judge what really happened though my sneaking suspicion is we're going to find out that the sacrifice of those companions was intentional on his part if not outright premeditated. Possibly even to the point of finding out that he in some way leaked the information to Guduranis that lead the Demon King to the conclusion that the Creation Champions were the biggest threat.

Edit: I forgot to add that I suspect the act of giving some of Guduranis' memories to Edgar may be what leads to these kinds of revelations about Bellwood.

 

It would not surprise me if Bellwood half hoped that they would be destroyed when they split off from his group, or that he expected them to die when they were attacked simultaneously.

It would surprise me a bit if he realized it was all a big trap to distract him and the DK was not actually attacking him, but the others. What I have read does not make me think he was introspective or tactical enough to think beyond "DK over there, me go kill." when there was a battle on the go.

 

i forgot about that part and i have too agree with you, because he can't have been given it without some sort of major plot point later down the line, it could be the final nail in the coffin that was heinz's believe in Alda, this is because i believe that the only real reason heinz still believes in alda is because it was his childhood and hes been around alda believers for the first 20-30? years of his life, the first vida believer he saw was probably darcia, so all in all i think heinz, for his childhood, is a good guy, just misguided, same for his companions as well. I don't think this is going to happen but, if heinz and van were to reconcile it would either be because of selen, darcia or vida saying something and it would probably be heinz and co coming to van and darcia in the street or something and begging him to help edgar and saying he would do anything. there are multiple ways this could play out with darcia giving a light push towards forgiveness, van saying he cant or wont help thus leaving him, and many more, but i believe the soul fragment of Guduranis being found out will strain relations between alda and rodcorde and destroy any good relation between heinz and alda.

 

You think THAT'S badass and funny, recall the part where the heart warriors were talking about the combat standards in Talosheim? C-rank adventurer equivalent is the standard for common civilians in Talosheim. Meanwhile, to even be CONSIDERED for Talosheim's military, you have to be equivalent to A-rank, equivalent to the empire's 15 evil breaking swords. As in, every single last member of Talosheim's military is equal to the best of the best of the best of the secret special strike-force squads in a normal human country. That's the entire freaking Talosheim military!!!

Finally, what Talosheim considers to be its special advance forces are people capable of participating in a battle of the gods, which is above S-rank. Talosheim's special forces are superior to the rare never-seen absolute top of human warriors. Admittedly though, the top of Talosheim's forces can actually be counted individually, although the number is still quite expansive.

Among those with ranks, it comprises anyone with a rank greater than 11. You can see the OP chart for Van's companions for THAT list. For humans or otherwise individuals without ranks, this would be Darcia, Kanako, Van himself, and THE ENTIRE 5 member storm of violence party. So, take that 8 and then add it to the *goes to check the OP I mentioned earlier* 17 not counting Godwin and the pure-breed vampires and other former Majin rulers self-petrified in Vida's resting place. (Although, technically, you COULD count Godwin but I'm not because I'm counting Talosheim's fighting force, not the Vidal Empire's fighting force.)

So, 8 + 17. That means the S-rank tier among Talosheim's fighting force is 25, a full 10 greater than Amed Empire's A-rank 15 swords (now down 4 members to 11, making Talosheim's 25 more than double them now.)

BTW: If you wanted to count the rank 11s, which are actually more along the lines of peak A-rank, that would add 5 more for a nice round 30. Also, technically since Kimberly is on that list, Kimberly is able to effectively fight at S-rank level when powered up by Van's dead spirit magic.

Also, I AM counting the bonus they get from Van's strengthen followers effect of his guidance when I rate them at these S-rank equivalent levels. I believe it's normally supposed to be that rank 14 is the S-rank equivalent, but Van's guidance at this point gives an equivalent of a 2.5 rank boost. Probably a full 3 rank boost if you are also under the effects of his strengthen subordinates ability. Now think about his tamed monster crew.

 

Shit, I read it but it just went over my head just how obscene that is until you pointed it out, doesn't this mean that talosheims civilian population can go toe to toe if not destroy most organised armies by themselves! And Arankers being the minimum to enter the army! Oh boy!, a single member of their army can bring most small countries to ruin! And then the special forces as you mentioned, I'm not gonna talk about that, but vans expectations of his army and civilians is so damn high that if anyone but van tried it, it would fail, plain and simple.

And about the boost I was under the impression that it boost a set amount, for example +50 health or something not +10% that you might be implying, and that among the higher levels it only provides a +0.5~ rank boost equivalent.

 

Hmmm... well, you are quite likely correct about that. However, I do still think he's giving at least a solid 1 rank's worth to his upper-tier members. Reason being, his strengthen subordinates ability, before it had even evolved and combined with his guidance (BTW: normal guidance does not give a base-line boost, it just helps in the same way as divine protection in enhancing growth rate. His guidance gives a base-line boost on top of that due to it starting with the strengthen followers ability) the boost he was giving was enough to raise rank 7 monsters into the status of full rank 8 monsters, as was commented during the Hartner Duchy ark when he summoned that dungeon and the hoard of monsters was going out to kill Heinz.

Since then, this ability has evolved to an absurd degree, and he has gained strengthen subordinates as well. Strengthen followers applies to anyone and everyone who gives their allegiance to him, whereas strengthen subordinates applies only to those directly under his command. Meaning, the two will stack if you are fighting at Van's side, like his friends are doing when they are going up against the gods. At least when they are stacking those two bonuses.

Keep in mind here, back during the Hartner Duchy arc, rank 7, 8, and 9 was about the peak we were dealing with, with Borkus being the one and only rank 10 around in the story to this point. It is looking as though Van's abilities to strengthen his subordinates are quite likely keeping pace with the level required to boost up the 4th rank to the 3rd rank position, meaning right now rank 14 is the strongest of all the people he can take into battle. So, he can probably boost the rank 11s up to rank 12 equivalent if they are subject to his strengthen subordinates ability.

Hmm... well, in that case I guess I do have to revise my assessment on the special forces. The peak 10-15 members are likely S-rank equivalent, but the other half then would be peak A-rank.

No... no... revise again. Peak A-rank was enough to just overcome Borkus. So, normal rank 12 is probably the clear for beginning S-rank equivalent. So, this means that with Van's boosts, his rank 11s all qualify as S-rank equivalents as well. This means he has over 35 members of his crew who are S-rank equivalent fieldable.

 

So the minimum requirement to enter Talosheims army is to as strong as Amids empires special forces. Somehow this does not seem to be over the top.

 

I was mostly just guessing at the figures, and I just thought 3 ranks was to high for it to be possible, so yeah I can agree with the 1 ranks worth but I believe it might still be too high.

 

Sorry, I edited that post since you saw it. Addressed that issue a little. Toned the estimate down to boosting the 4th rank down by a full 1 rank. So, at this point in the story, that would be boosting rank 11s to the rank 12 equivalent.

EDIT: At the same time though, I also realized the power scaling placed peak A-rank as being able to match a rank 10. So, that would mean rank 11 is base S-rank.

 

Ok, and the bees? Aren't they rank 6 at a minimum? I just feel sorry for anyone that pokes there dick into the bee hive that is talosheim.

But seriously, any country that know about talosheims strength would have to overcome a civil war first due to shear fear of provoking a reaction, but chances are they'll only truly realise how fucked they are when it's too late to apologize.

EDIT

And I would say rank 11 is inbetween high "rank A" and low "rank S" And rank 12 is a solid "low rank S"

 

Why? They went and jacked with the hornets nest themselves, no reason to feel sorry for them, better as a life lesson. Plus would be a great warning to Brainless and Puny God and possible threats from the Bravers if they aim at Van's life again (to get to Van, one has to go through a mountain of enemies).

 

Oh, I was just sorry for the uneducated soldiers who could have been decent people if they had a better upbringing, and a kind of pity you feel when an idiot tries his best, only too fail to do anything. It's that kind of sorry, a pitiful sorry.

 

I am putting this in my signature because I strongly beieve these words should be immortalized, and there is nothing you can do to change my mind.

Van hasn't used Talosheim's full military might since that one time when he was little. I'd really like to see another full-scale curb-stomp battle like that.

Completely ignoring that this is a perfectly fine analogy, who sticks dicks in beehives? The only purpose would be to get stung by bees. The idea is so stupid that I can't fathom someone actually trying.

 

Prob see that when we get both Second DK war and second Alda-Vida war (both at same time and can thank Puny God and Brainless for that, might be the one good thing they done for us as it's sounding quite entertaining).

 

Wait, wasn't there only one Vegetable (Yasai/Jasai) left, the hilt member with that analysis skill? I'm pretty sure that Rickert, Ervine, Bebeckett, and Sleygar were the only actual swords, while the rest were hilt members; all of which, except the analysis guy, were killed by Legion.