Spoiler Latest Chapter Discussion Thread for Death Mage Raws

Discussion in 'Spoilers' started by FussyBadger, Nov 25, 2017.

  1. Reman Scimitar

    Reman Scimitar Princess Zadiris Faction

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    Goes back to what I said, it's how the other side will see it, how would you see an armada of flying ships coming to your territory?
     
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  2. jubjub3000

    jubjub3000 Well-Known Member

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    Oh I was thinking of van going over or something, making a trade deal and then explains it to them or something so it's not out of the blue.
     
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  3. sjmcc13

    sjmcc13 Well-Known Member

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    So would that be an airline, or a fleet of cruise ships?
    Either way sounds like a Van move ;)
     
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  4. Wannabe-shutin

    Wannabe-shutin Well-Known Member

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    On the other hand a dungeon would be less noticable and one just needs an excuse for the trade routes. And Van can just regularly put in spare mana to charge it.

    As a side note, could quattro fly from the beginning or did it have to reach a certain rank first?

    Edit: just thought of a group of terrifying looking ghost ships lead by Knochen passing by random villages and imagined the reaction of the people and the gods:ROFLMAO:
     
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  5. Reman Scimitar

    Reman Scimitar Princess Zadiris Faction

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    They would have to be notified before hand, but there would still be the feeling in the back as some folks may not like an armada coming to their territory esp if they're ran by a newborn God(dess... :blobunamused: this bit bothers me since Van is a boy, not a girl).
     
  6. jubjub3000

    jubjub3000 Well-Known Member

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    I need to check but I don't think he would have been able to move if he couldn't fly at the beginning, considering the amount of holes it quattro
     
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  7. jubjub3000

    jubjub3000 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah true, but to counter this, can't van just send one ship at a time or have two on rotation, meaning when one arrives in talosheim the over arrives where it's needed, and the others (if there are any) could go to and from other trading ports.
     
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  8. Reman Scimitar

    Reman Scimitar Princess Zadiris Faction

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    One plausible counter to everything I stated is both Van and the Duchy he plans to trade with is a dungeon is made from Van and a trade town is made on the Duchy's part of the agreement, and that's if it's an agreement from both parties.

    Edit:
    Can, but Van has a bit of a habit of show of force on occasion also. Plus would be better than the armada option you mentioned earlier.
     
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  9. Wannabe-shutin

    Wannabe-shutin Well-Known Member

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    Can Van produce flying golems? If it is shown to be reproducable by other alchemist if they knew the required techniques people wouldn't be as opposed to the idea. It would also be a blow to Alda since the Vida church can spread even faster like that.
    Moreover the ships would require some protection against flying enemies - something most adventures can't do. This gives the harpys a good chance to become an importang cooperator of merchants.
     
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  10. jubjub3000

    jubjub3000 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah your idea might be better, I just like the idea of a fleet of big ships, and I really want van to create a spaceship too go to the moon or something
     
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  11. Reman Scimitar

    Reman Scimitar Princess Zadiris Faction

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    As nice as that would sound (might even be a precursor to other forms of tech from Earth and Origin) but needs to be both remodeled and assembled using the physics of Lambda PLUS need to find fuel and uranium for such expenditure and reqs prior technological abilities like the plane/aeronautics, some form of electrical power generation, and so much more .

    Edit:
    Technically, we do have creatures like Hurricane Dragons over at the Border mountains, so might be plausible, I'm curious if Van can even teach others how to create golems without the use of alchemy to begin with since golem creation is his 'first' job.
     
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  12. kari-no-sugata

    kari-no-sugata Well-Known Member

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    Finally had time to go through the latest chapter in more depth...

    One thing that I didn't see anyone pick up on is that Randolph has actually left. He did say previously that he wanted to continue on his journey as a minstrel... and he did, after receiving his transformation equipment. It was mentioned that he's been "half Guided" but it's not clear what that means in practice - has he been Guided by Kanako but not Van or influenced by Kanako but not Guided enough to receive the skill?

    On a side note, it totally wasn't foreshadowing that Randolph taking Van's side would radically shift the balance of power in the Kingdom. Nope, not foreshadowing anything at all. Definitely. :blobpeek:

    It's nice that we got clarity on whether Kanako can Guide others into Vida's reincarnation system. I'm pretty sure we discussed this option - that while Kanako herself can't Guide people over to Vida's system, people Guided by her are much more likely to then be Guided by Van. From what was discussed in the chapter it seems to me like this factor is more about the raw power that the Guider has. So if Kanako became a demi-god (or close in power) she'd probably be able to convert others to Vida's system herself. Don't forget that Van had godly amounts of SP from early on - his raw power has been very high in one specific dimension since the start (and has become even more powerful and has diversified into other dimensions). Does this mean Bellwood could convert others from Vida's system to Rodcorte's? Probably. If Vida wants to increase the chance of Kanako being able to Guide others directly to Vida's system then giving her a powerful divine protection would be a good start (and would be generally useful as well).

    I was also happy to see the character analysis on Kanako and discussion on whether she'd have become a Guider without Van - the three "support staff" reincarnators concluded that Kanako would have become a Guider without Van's support, it'd just have taken longer. It's clearly started that Kanako's ability to take action, to take risks, etc was critical. It's not like it's easy for reincarnators to become Guiders - you really have to put in the effort, which is why it's only Kanako (so far).

    I wonder if the "God of Strings" is going to convert to Vida's side. He's basically been isolated within Alda's side and his chosen "hero" has already been Guided by Van and he's not taking back his divine protection from her. So it's likely he'll be increasingly influenced by Van's side.

    The last section makes it clear (to me) that the nobles in the duchy are not yet ready to side with Van in large numbers. Maybe some opportunists and existing Vida believers will change over easily but it seems likely that there'll be many holdouts that could cause trouble.

    I wonder what the bit at the end is with the requests board at the adventures's guild is. It's vague but my impression is that Van has put up a strange request.
     
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  13. jubjub3000

    jubjub3000 Well-Known Member

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    No, not like how we would think about a spaceship I mean like upgrade the Quattro to the point it can go to space.
     
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  14. kari-no-sugata

    kari-no-sugata Well-Known Member

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    The population of the duchy is probably around 3-5m. Of those, probably about 20-30% have heard of Van/Darcia so far and a good number of those probably have a good but vague impression of them. However, that doesn't mean that all those have converted to being Vida believers. Actually, only a tiny percentage would likely have properly changed to being Vida believers so far. After all, Van hasn't yet Guided large numbers of people in the duchy - probably only a few hundred. I would say that overall the effects are a bit uneven - due to Van and Darcia's actions, Vida and Vida's races have gained a lot of positive publicity. This is why Darcia didn't face a backlash from being made an honorary noblewoman. But only relatively few people have changed significantly. On the other hand, some of those few are very very influential - such as the duke. If Van, Darcia and the duke all died then the effects would likely fade quite quickly. It takes longer for deep-seated change to occur - for it to become permanent change. But because Van has the duke on his side he won't face much real opposition.

    I would say that the main holdouts will be other nobles within the duchy, particularly strong Alda believers (which seems common amongst the nobles) and also those in rural areas who tend to have more extreme Alda believers. I certainly don't think Van could do whatever he likes in the duchy and get away with it currently - he couldn't treat it like it's part of his empire. I would say that Van's actions to date show that he's being relatively cautious rather than assuming he has it in the bag. He has a good foundation but still has to put in the hard work to bring about real change, and Kanako will likely help a lot - after all, the plan is for Kanako to make a trip to the capital once she's finished preparations in Moxy town.

    Prep, prep and more prep. Then you win.


    It's probably worth recalling that the Kingdom was once part of the Amid Empire and rebelled several hundred years ago.
     
  15. jubjub3000

    jubjub3000 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't know that, but you have too admit that each duchy is effectively it's own country, you could compare it to the USA in this aspect, where it's a bunch of smaller states with a couple unifiers.
     
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  16. Efgbog

    Efgbog Well-Known Member

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    So Kanako is now the gateway drug Guider that leads to Van. Looking forward to the political shifts in the Kingdom.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  17. kari-no-sugata

    kari-no-sugata Well-Known Member

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    If you want to transport people around, it's probably better to use the dungeon teleport. Particularly if used for war.

    Van can create dungeons himself. He can do it inside towns/cities. He could create mini dungeons all over the cities in the Amid Empire in preparation. It's then easy for his troops to attack from inside the city! That's a nightmare to deal with. After all, you can simply bypass the main defence and go straight for the core of the city and you'll have plenty of hostages (civilians). It's also easy(ish) to fall back again if required.

    If you see Van (or someone on his behalf) going around the Amid Empire buying up large houses or warehouses for no obvious reason then it's probably for this.
     
  18. jubjub3000

    jubjub3000 Well-Known Member

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    But can't vans adventurers card only teleport between the floors of the dungeon the user is in and the entrance, cause vans gonna have too upgrade if for that to work.

    Edit

    But instant travel in and between different dungeons was the entire idea behind his version of the card.
     
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  19. jemini

    jemini Well-Known Member

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    .... Ok, consider my mind blown. That would be absolutely hilarious if Mashkuzarl staged a coup/resistance from inside the empire. Knowing him, it would be at absolute perfect timing when the nation is already weakening with other things, and then he will charge in and take charge of the nation again. Of course, the actual METHOD of his "make everything right" tactics will likely take the form of an absolute surrender to Van and an attempt to enter negotiations.

    I really can't see Mashkuzarl written off as a character just yet. I had thought so for a bit with him being taken out of power, but now that there is a "maybe" for him to have counter measures, I can only see him pulling a stunt like this somehow.

    That, or he defects to Van's side and tries to negotiate for some kind of sparing of his citizens and the form of the empire, even if he deposes the nobles and crushes the church of Alda (especially crushing the church of Alda,) and installs his own people (preferably one of whom being his (Mashkuzarl's) son. Who, BTW, now pretty much views Van as an older brother XD)

    Neither really, it just started competing really really hard against Sam to try and be useful. Basically, the Quatro willed itself to fly. (apparently, that kinda stuff actually works when Van's involved.)

    As for creating additional ships with the capacity to fly though, Van has been creating fake versions of the Quatro left and right for this entire arc, all of which have been able to fly. This would suggest he has now found the formula to make flying golems (since I honestly doubt Van would blow up another undead ghost ship, since he views undead as people.

    I really don't think you get it, and I think @Reman Scimitar must have surely lost the thread of his own good idea not to have used this as a counter-argument already. ANY technology can be militarized, and it has already been shown that the nobility in this world think in those terms quite readily as the Duke of Alcheim's mind immediately went to the military applications of Van's golem show (although that one was a bit more straightforward and obvious.)

    If Van shows off his flying ship technology, likely using the perfected golem technology he has developed from the raids on Botin's seal, then even if it is not militarized in the slightest and even if it's only one or two ships and not an armada the nobles will immediately see the military application. If this is mixed with the announcement of Van's status as the Emperor of a nation of Vida's races over the boundary mountains, and these ships are property of the Vidal empire to facilitate trade between Vidal and the Orbaume duchies, then that means this militarizable technology is in the hands of a foreign power they need to be weary of.

    Seeing it as a military power does not mean they will see it as an invasion, it just means that they will see it as a potential threat. Worse, it's not a threat they have cause to act on. Rather, it's a looming threat that will put pressure on their minds and greatly change the way they behave in regards to their relations with Van in much the same way as the Duke of Amed was in regards to Van after that large-scale golem show.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  20. jubjub3000

    jubjub3000 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but by looking at a country with superior tech they'll want it, so theyll ally with van to have a chance of gaining it for themselves.

    Edit

    And why can't van give one or two as a gift to any new allies or trade partners.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
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