Discussion Worst turn off in a novel?

I've known a few polygamists in real life (western country here) and I still dislike harems. It's not the fact that some adults decide to share a partner that gets me but the fact that it's unrealistic the way it's portrayed.

* They're open about it in a conservative society and there's no backlash or even a mention? Some of those people I've known went to huge lengths to hide their relationship status from the public and even their birth families and if they choose to be open about it they likely have some stories about how others perceive them.
* The romance just sort of happens and no one ever bothers to have an adult conversation a la "so actually I'm into this polygamy thing, how do you feel about that?" when literally an entire archs worth of problems could just be solved by saying that. Why are people so adverse to talking it out that they'd rather battle the big evil villain than have a honest talk about their kinks with their own partners? Like wtf
* The unattractive MC who still somehow manage to be a girl magnet, and girls who just falls head over heels in love with the first person who is slightly nice to them.

Honestly if someone have suggestions about harem novels who don't do this I'm all ears for recommendations.

 

Yes!! this is what I meant!!, I'm very agree with you.
No one ever bother to mention it...like that feels so weird
Like naturally they become a harem?

Like no discussion about I'm interested in polygamy, if you want let's go, if you hate it goodbye?
It just like everyone naturally accepting being MC's harem, like they dont feel weird about it.

(( They're open about it in a conservative society and there's no backlash or even a mention? Some of those people I've known went to huge lengths to hide their relationship status from the public and even their birth families and if they choose to be open about it they likely have some stories about how others perceive them. ))

This!! it seems like everyone do it in that fantasy world, but 'I never found someone else doing it'.
Like other people only have one couple for life. Why no one mention or gossip about MC doing a polygamy in that world??? MC stand out with that many wives around him.

If the fantasy world has background why polygamy OK, well sure, I have no comment.
Like ancient chinese imperial, they want to have many childern, and make them fight then the winner become king, so that's why harem is normal there.

Still I'm not into harem but I will have no comment since they have the reasonable explaination.

 

Harem and cheating are a big turn off. Also parents/someone else breaking up couple only for them to get back together after 2 to 5 years.

 

the crazy OP mc who only has to brEatH to have their enemies crumble to dust.

mcs who ALWAYS chose the very very obviously wrong or worse choice.. like are u freaking blind lmao

guys or girls who CANT SEE THAT THE ‘friEnD’ doesn’t have good intentions towards their partner

when pure lotus who can’t-do-wrOnG-uwu antagonist do such obviously hostile things to guy’s partner and they HOLD BACK BC SHE’S A GIRL. like noooo slapp that biihhh lol. can’t guys be geNtLemEnLy only for those who treat their partners nicely? ugh ugh ugh

when people in the story have to either worship mc or die. literally no such thing as neutRal paSseRsbY.

INCEST eeeeeewWW!!

[ok like I have lots more... but can’t think or any rn bc my heart is full of fluff from the recent novel]

 

Yeah, if I'd only been exposed to Japanese style harem stories, I'd be in full agreement with you. Those books tend to have one-note characters who are barely more than their archetypes. As such there's not really anything to them so it's hard to do anything interesting with them.

I've read a bunch of books where the harems are much better though. These are all historical novels where harems are commonplace so there isn't any social opposition to the practice. Instead polygamous relationships are part of society so they have to follow the rules and conventions of said society.

So what makes a good harem? I think it requires quite a few elements to work properly. The first is always characterization. If the members of the harem (male and female) aren't properly people with their own motivations and interests then it can only be a very shallow story element. Next, variety is very important; by which I'm talking about variety in relationships and how the characters play off of one another. Ideally, these relationships should have at least some sort of complication to add some texture. Finally, the romantic and other interactions have to be both present and interesting.

An awful lot of harem stories fail at some or all of these requirements so it's only to be expected that they're not going to be very good. I do have a number of novels where I've seen it done well, but most of these books are untranslated (and that's unlikely to change) so you'd have to read them in Chinese. "The Deer and the Cauldron" is translated, and it is literally the first of the Chinese-style harem stories.

 

People who can't see Mount Tai.

 

when the MC has to hide his power, just because.

there will always be that elder 2nd only to the sect leader that will betray the sect, just because he wasn't chosen to be the sect leader.

Rape is a must for every novel with a female MC.

It's always the female MC's fault.

repetitive explanations and fluff.

repetitive jokes.

the best friend is always fat.

there will always be that disrespectful character even though she's a weak ass fodder, but the MC just let her off.

non stop school tournaments.

non stop auctions.

 

A TV being turned is the lamest turn-off.

 

Too much romance or romance that hogs up disproportionate amount of time if its not a romance novel and the MC being treated badly or taken advantage of.

 

The funny thing is that I usually find the romances are usually better in the non-Romance novels! What happens too often is that the couples in Romance novels tend to be totally devoted to one another to the point of being reduced to one note interactions with one another. Non-Romance novels have more freedom so there's more room for varied relationships, and dare I say it - more room for interesting romances.

 

On a side note it can be hard to avoid romance in novels.

 

A few people have already said this, but using sexual harassment/abuse/rape as a plot contrivance.

It's a touchy subject for some, so I'll try not to dwell on it too much, but while I believe such situations should be able to be portrayed in fiction, only as long as they have a point to be made.

So many novels use these situations in order to connect a love interest and the main protagonist. "He saved me from this terrible event, so I'll become a member of his harem"! How authors believe this to be the correct use of such a emotionally taxing crime is beyond me.

 

I think that any human condition is worth writing about. What the writer should do in this case is to acknowledge that heavily traumatic material like this should be about the person who experiences it so the focus should be on that character. It's all to easy to frame it as motivation or character development for someone else (usually the protagonist), thereby reducing the victim to being an object rather than a subject. That's something pretty crappy to do, and even a writer like Kawahara Reki who did just this in SAO has managed to figure that out.

 

Precisely! Subjects like that are very touchy, and there's a lot that can be said about the human condition through those events. Unfortunately, these things do happen, and sometimes dodging the subject and not covering it can be just as bad as defiling it with twisted perversions.

However, I don't think it should ever be used as simply a lens to view or develop a character. Using these things as plot devices, or vehicles to add shock value or tension to a work, is ruthlessly incompetent writing (in my opinion).

To cite an example, I'll use Goblin Slayer:

Spoiler: Spoilers for the beginning chapters of Goblin Slayer (and some graphic description of the events)

The novel gives a lot more credibility for the aforementioned scene being part of this grander story. It drives a simple message—goblins are despicable creatures without any redeeming qualities, and this world is a raw, untainted look at what fantasy stories could be. I still don't agree fully with the argument that this scene needed to be a part of the story (it honestly could have done without it), but at least it has some level of validation for existing.

Completely juxtaposing the novel is the manga's take on this scene. An absolutely disgusting, visceral depiction of the events described in the novel as taking on a sexual tone in nature. The scene was treated like fan service fodder, with her body warped into an unnatural position as if to fully showcase her assets to the audience. It's a horrendous panel with absolutely no justification for anyone with even a remote sense of empathy.

Of course, I realize my views and morals may differ from other people. I'm not saying that this should be some law—writing shouldn't have rules for what we can or cannot talk about. But just because there shouldn't be rules, doesn't mean you should ignore the cultural impact of your words, and how they reflect on the world at large.

 

I agree. It shouldn't be a very hard lesson to adhere to. Sometimes women (and other groups) are going to be victimized in the stories you write. All the writer has to do is to write her as a real person rather than an object and it'll be fine.

I read a book once where the villain captured the hero's love interest and spirited her off to his fortress. He threatened to forcibly marry her and rape her. So how does this differ from the exploitative stuff that we're discussing? The POV is on the hero, but instead of being concerned with how he feels about it, he is constantly thinking about her and how this will affect her mental state and what he can do to help her recover. I think it's a really good illustration of how to take a scenario that can be fraught with problems and turn it into something quite positive character-wise.

 

when it has a shitty ending, (e.g solo leveling). nothing i dislike more than reading all the way thru a novel, only for it to have a very unsatisfying and bland ending, as if the author just couldn't be bothered to do something proper.

 

Worst turn off?
Where do i begin i wonder, firstly. netorare. dont get me wrong people breakup and shit but what i mean is when theres a wimpy MC almost begging for it to happen.
Secondly some sort of righteous complex. I like anti-hero MCs. I am fine with the good guys too but when a MC goes out of his way to get fucked simply cause its the right way to do yeah no thanks.
thirdly, lets just say if an mc goes out of his way to help his enemies ill stop reading at that point.
now for non mc related ones.
plot holes, i can tolerate a few as I know how hard it is to write a story without them, but you dont just look past random rule breaking just for plot armor.
second overly plot armored plot armor, its good when done in a 'lucky' way but when the world is clearly going out of its way to fuck over anyone who touches the mc, tries to show off how good the MC is using coincidences then yeah fuck no.
thirdly, OP mcs are my fav BUT! I'll say it now, they can be written really badly really easily, for example, boom the mc is now randomly a god with OP status and OP everything! everyone and everything just bends over at his mere sight, did i mention how big his dick is? yeah and he is so handsome everyone just drools.
It got pretty descriptive but you guys get what i mean right? the full on self insert ones. zero amusement full on self masturbation

Oh and another comment up above by kitty reminded me, sexism.
i can tolerate racism, (grew used to it with how many chinese novels are teeming with it)
i can tolerate rich vs poor.
but an MC who wouldnt hit a bitch cause the bitch dont have a dick? yeah no fuck you and your self righteous bs. make kazuma your role model.

 

Forced love interests or annoying love interests though after reading JPN LN's recently, the usual beta MC is starting to get on my nerves. Like that isekai guy who can steal skills just cried and went okay with being used by the Princess, I was so dumbfounded by his move that I dropped the series.

 

When I am bored and searching for a new novel I filter out about half of the the genres and tags. I basically avoid cultivation novels because they have most of the things I hate, in general of course.

 

One thing I can't seem to filter out is morally inconsistent protagonists. If they are true heroes why change that without warning why is that selfish bastard suddenly risking himself for others. If they have a reason that changed them okay, I can accept that people change from traumatic events. I still prefer not to have the character change on me. Antiheroes should be antiheroes, heroes as heroes, villains as villains, selfish not-quite villains should be just that, and naive protagonists should well you messed up already just right a different story.