Also I'm back for a bit, I found that my insert quotes missed some stuff so just adding it in here now: For that specific post, I had already replied to everything iirc I'm not going to rewrite it. You also haven't replied to Tilgarial's points. Also if you recall, the whole reason is 1. We can use this D1 check in conjunction with the parity cop, so we have someone who is confirmed 2. Gets us 2 confirmed townies to avoid lynching Vast understatement... why do you make him out to be the victim? Is this another SoongKi repeat? Am I just "making a big deal out of nothing", despite his extremely severe underperformance and how he spends all his time playing the victim and saying "LiLi you're being too aggressive" while actually ignoring all the posts I've brought up or giving illogical explanations?? It's not just being "careless". I didn't say we shouldn't discuss it! Where did I ever say that?? Martial, I swear, if you want to try ti be the next Renzy and turn the conversation into a "boohoohoo it's all LiLi's fault I'm just a pitiful little white lotus and I'm getting bullied also all her responsibility I can't do anything but cry and complain" BS session, I am going to hammer you to death!! Like I said, just pick out the posts I sent to you, and answer my points line by line. ??? How is this reckless?? Are you not reading what's going on? What "joke" are you talking about? No one was joking, da heck??
What's a 1-shot alignment watcher? Pretty sure you just said 'watcher' when you explained it the first time >.> Is that even a thing? I think you're downplaying it and making your error a non-issue Don't you talk about the subconscious a lot? I feel like common sense in that case is: You repeat a plan X over and over When ignored point that could lead to a plan Y is brought up later, everyone's already so into plan X that plan Y never registers If we had all gotten into the idea, "waste witch's kill so parity cop can use the death" and then later realize "oh there's an alignment cop", we might not ever get back out of the "use witch's kill" spiral. But why does the player have to be dead for the parity cop's checks to be trustworthy? Btw, I ended up asking all the other questions I had in my PM. Parity cop can self-check. Now, what will you do with this info? And if you think that getting a mafia is just 'ideal'... do you think it's more likely that they'll get a town? Why suggest it then? And wdym D3. You said cop can only reveal at D4 to be useful. You're contradicting yourself here. I don't understand what you're saying here, I don't recall mentioning D4?? I don't really understand. And if the witch protects themselves every day... they have a one-time immunity to NKs. Idk why they would die during the day. They can roleclaim, so this makes no sense. Can you rephrase this? I'm confused. Yeah but you said D3 earlier. Why is this so? Well, not all discussion results are positive. For example, if mafia were to dump in a bunch of misleading plans and essentially kick town off into the abyss of stupidity after brainwashing them. That's not positive.
I looked and don't think it's terribly alignment indicative. He asked people to vote. He asked Martial to vote so that we could ask why Martial voted for who he did.
Also skimmed-skipped most of the mechanics (specifically, I only read the first few posts on cop strategy before it spiraled - a bit of an information overload that I wasn't expecting/ready-for). So what I did remember was... (in response to the 'swept') at some point Lili called out Joker for being on Martial's side... Given that I didn't really read them... I don't know? Was this in response for the alignment cop to check then reveal D2? Isn't it a bit of a waste to use witch on a vanilla?
Huh?? I swear I didn't say anything about you don't want to continue discussing this. I was just mentioning the discussion is stopped because of our intermission and I think I'm not viable to townlead anymore. You think I was acting like Renzy? You think I'm talking BS? That's way too far, Lili.... I'm currently running through your posts and try to answer it again one by one.
Ngl, I disliked his explanation. Particularly the first paragraph you didn't quote, which understated the whole thing. Why so defensive of Martial? And I don't get it. Isn't decora someone who hates meta? Why bring up meta? Or idk, I didn't understand the last line that you quoted. But whatever, if people want Martial to be town so bad, I'm switching to Joker. >.>
That was my argument to have alignment cop check and reveal D2. Martial was the one petitioning for Witch to kill a random somebody earlier. ...Oops, sorry. That was my bad. I didn't read carefully enough. And yes, I did feel it was like Renzy. Do you remember Renzy's speech last game about how "everything was LiLi's responsibility" "if she mislynches it's all her fault" "he can't do anything, poor him"? "Since I was marked by Lili as scum, I guess I'm not that credible anymore to townlead." "As of the current topic, Lili scumread me because I've made a stupid mistake and somehow benefitting the mafia." "As for how I benefit the mafia, I have no idea. Try to put on your opinion on this matter." Felt like you were trying to lowkey blame me. Just like Renzy. Renzy's whole speech about that was BS. I felt that your speech, while more lowkey, carries that sense of pitiful blame and could definitely evolve into a conversation just like his. Sorry if that offended you. Also, thanks, please do answer everything.
I was eating so I'm gonna answer this first. First off, what do you mean by "Finally some valid reasoning", just because you don't agree with me, doesn't automatically make my reasoning invalid. As for the you saying that mafia can only lynch one person at night, you're forgetting that the mafia has Vengeful. correct me if I'm wrong but you're plan was: in order for this plan to work either the alignment cop or the parity cop has to hint about who they are going to check, which the vengeful can easily use to figure out who one of these prs are and set they're target to them. which effectively risks one of the prs for no reason. And also you keep saying that having 2 confirmed towns is important, so why is it that you are dismissing the alignment cop because they would be a vanilla town. Lastly, for both townies to be safe during the night, what's to stop the witch and doctor from protecting the same person, again one of them would have to hint who they are targeting, thereby giving vengeful an even better target. And then after that the vengeful can just act like a jester and take one of our strongest prs down with them.
1) Thank you for the compliment, I guess? But I didn't know Soongki was the traitor, so that was luck? 2) Personally, I just think it escalated really quickly. Maybe Bane? Still rather caught up on the fact he was pushing for a vote that soon when all that had been discussed prior to that point was mechanics(?) It's also the only thing that popped out for me. I can't 'read' the other thing well.
I don't know, but It didn't cross my mind that it is possible to have two cops in one team, because cop is usually already powerful. It is my first time to see a cop role this weak. So, I was somehow skimming it as a 'Alignment watcher'. As for what it is, I haven't read the entire role yet, as I thought it was self-explanatory and simple role to have. Nothing worth to discuss. Huh? I thought parity cop can't self-check. Is this has been confirmed with Zone? I'm currently asking him on PM. Rather than wasting the witch kill, I was proposing to use parity cop and witch kill at the same time. As for when it is, the earlier the better for the parity cop. But if the parity cop could self-check then it is basically a novice cop. Zone should've use a better term for it, because the wiki said parity cop cannot self-check. Like it is now that I don't know about self-check, could it be the mafia would also benefit this because I didn't mention they couldn't self-check? It instead sparks your idea to ask Zone whether parity cop could self-check or not. If the parity cop could self-check, then they DEFINITELY have to self-check at N1 no matter what. At least, we got something good from this discussion. If I don't even know their existence, how am I downplaying their worth. When I replied to you that town doesn't have alignment cop, it should be clear that you would double check the issue and reply me back that town does have one as well. I failed to realize how am I downplaying alignment cop worth by not knowing their existence... This is because if the parity cop knows his first basic check, then it will make his later check to be much more informative. The parity cop would be better equipped to judge whether his readings is good or not. If his readings on N1 is settled, then D3 would be enough for him to reveal himself. Otherwise, D4 would the earliest for him to reveal himself. Btw, Gtg again. Brb in about an hour or two.
This is because the parity cops won't know whether his check is mafia or town even after he checks it. The only way to check it is when one of his checks are dead, then his information would become very important for town.
However, in that case("best case" - not tailored), two known townies would be revealed, where one would be a known vanilla... Thereby, like usual, narrow down the field of possible PRs. I thought our standard plan is to not take those risks? It's worse than the reveal of an innocent child, no? Moreover, we can't guarantee whether it was a true alignment read given tailor exists. I could have sworn the main discussion was what to do with tailor and how to bypass that problem.
It also doesn't mean those huge loopholes don't exist either That's not at night? Are you saying that the Vengeful, a mafia, will get NK-ed?? Sure, there's the witch, but it's definitely not even close to a certainty ??? No, why would they hint who they check? D1: nothing N1: both check targets D2: alignment cop says who they checked last night. Why is this unnecessary risk? This is inevitable risk- the alignment cop would have to role reveal at some time anyway, unless they want to waste their role. 2 confirmed town- 2 less people we would consider lynch targets Also save the effort of having to go through and make arguments against them if they act sus Plus the cop is important for their check, but they are vanilla town afterwards. That doesn't put them at any more risk than any other townie, except that they would get a confirmed status (helpful for convincing people). Worth it. Or... we can just agree on it beforehand. Why do they have to hint personally? For example, everyone can agree "Witch protects alignment cop", "Doc protects townie". There, anonymity.
When did I say that the alignment cop should hold onto their greencheck for the entire game, you're basing this of thinking that I want the them to check someone n1, when if you remember I said that I want them to hold off on using it until there are less suspects because that would make their charge have the highest impact in the game. Also I never said that everyone on the wagon would be mafia, I said that the person driving the wagon, as in the one whose throwing sus on the greencheck is most likely mafia. And also, you're saying how it's unlikely for the mafia to be trying to lynch the greencheck, by that logic isn't also unlikely for the alignment cop to find a redcheck this early in the game. What's unclear, if the alignment cop dies after greenchecking someone, town can look back at their latest read list and see who they gave the highest town lean to. And I feel like you're going to say "Well, how do you know that the alignment cop greenchecked the person with the highest town-lean?" and to that all I have to say is, How would you know that the alignment cop didn't green check them?
yea, but you're making it sound like everyone that is still in the rvs stage is suspicious for wanting to wait for more information, because again, it hasn't even been 12 hours into the day phase and over half the people playing have either barely posted or not posted at all. What's to stop us from having a repeat of the last game's d1 if everyone decides to just keep with the initial game sus and not do anything else?