LCD Death Mage

Discussion in 'Latest Chapter Discussion' started by lygarx, May 21, 2017.

  1. spycho357

    spycho357 Well-Known Member

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    i'm trying to figure out what benefit there was to alda's side to remove their divine realms from the planet? They can't actively do anything on the surface which largely invalidates their purpose of sealing and managing malicious entities, they can't observe anyone or anything not near one of their believers, their power drastically drops when they leave their divine realm, if they do happen to find a fitting vessel and inhabit it their abilities are reduced.
     
  2. Neiden

    Neiden Well-Known Member

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    If I remember correctly, it takes energy to descend on the planet.

    But after the fight with Vida, most of the gods were either dead, asleep or sealed. And the ones that were left were not only dumb, but also low on energy.
    Meanwhile, the lack of active gods was causing problem in the world management.

    So the gods left the planet to reserve most of their energy to manage the world and keep it from dying.
     
  3. Kaithar

    Kaithar Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the dad would be the tricky part but it could work, Van does know how to negotiate he just chooses to bypass that step most of the time for efficiency reasons. She strikes me as a realist, so she'll hopefully cut her losses if it comes to it. At least it's not the Sauron family?

    I wonder if Randolf could be convinced to play mediator, seems like they'll collide soon.
     
  4. kagemao

    kagemao Active Member

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    I assume Van having his base race as Goddess has something to do with Vida's link to Darcia. Since incarnations are supposed to have their will subsumed by the god/goddess in question (during the descent?), but Vida doesn't want something like that so it didn't happen.

    It could also just be the status administrators taking liberties, though. Van unlocks a lot of new classes really easily and, if it was as simple as getting a god to bless you early, others would have done something similar. Though, I guess they don't have their own reincarnation system like she does, so maybe that's the trick. I could still see the system gods looking at Darcia and Van and saying, "well she's guaranteed to become a goddess at this point". Even Vida was worried that Darcia would accidentally turn herself into the goddess of magical girls after all.

    I think the question will be answered whenever Van properly becomes a god, if he hasn't already. By that I mean whether the system calls him a god or still calls him a Dhampir.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2022
  5. DarkLegions

    DarkLegions Well-Known Member

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    Mate, either you've missed the point entirely or most are just dumb af. His race is NOT GODDESS, its Dhampir, just like God is not a race its a title, so dunno why the system would change Dhampir to God, if anything its just his title that would change nothing else.

    And back to the Goddess part, how the fuck can people still miss the fact it says Goddess for his mother NOT him. Like ffs jsut because his mother changes race doesn't affect his race since he was born BEFORE HER RACE FUCKING CHANGED! you can't just magically be like welp now his race changed since her race changed.... and no don't make assumptions based on really, really bad reasonings cause you want them to be.

    And I know for a fact people are gonna call me out or say something illogical or just straight up refuse to concede or even try and argue my point in a reasonable and logical way, so no I won't respond to stupid comments whos only purpose is to double down on their initial comment.
     
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  6. spycho357

    spycho357 Well-Known Member

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    yes, van is a dhampir, his mother was a dark elf, regardless of darcia's current status it can't affect Van's origin source. That said Van became a demigod after taking the demiurge job and has been passing out divine protections like pez. He is also the first mortal to reach godhood without dying first, fusing with an evil god, or transforming into an elder dragon or true colossus
     
  7. Kaithar

    Kaithar Well-Known Member

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    No, I'm going to call you out because you're saying things that are wrong and stupid on multiple levels, to the point I have to ask if you read the story. Let's go through them.

    No shit. I guess you got hung up on "his base race", which most would sensibly interpret to mean "the race that got a vampire upgrade".

    Wrong, wrong and wrong. God is a race, or more accurately a species, since in this story there are world gods that were never mortal. There's two of them listed in the character summary if you had bothered to pay attention. Setting aside the highest tiers like Vida, Rodcorte and the Earth gods, a lot of the early subordinate gods were directly created by the upper ones. Great god forms a familiar spirit from their own existence, upgrades it to a subordinate god, appoints it to do with shadows or mountains whatever it is they need to do to keep them existing, and call it good. Their races are very much gods.
    Mortals that have died and been ascended to eventually become Heroic Gods are also technically gods by race, having become a soul without a body during the dying step. If the system determined that he had become a god, it would update to reflect that, the readout is descriptive rather than prescriptive.
    You also seem to be overlooking that people change race in this world as calmly as they change clothes... Hell, in Talosheim you can arrange a race change with less effort than it takes us to get passports issued. "Drink this potion before bed until you start dreaming of Van-sama differently than you used to" ... Why wouldn't it change when he gets sufficient divine status?

    Again, wrong and wrong. Titles change based on sufficient authority and/or consensus calling you something. Calling someone a god likely wouldn't give them a god title and having that title wouldn't let them become gods. Most likely the system would recognise and grant an appropriate "god of X" title after all the requirements are fulfilled, the rest of the status reflected it, sufficient authority of the gods acknowledged it and presumably sufficient worshipers were established for the specific authority. Again, the status readout is descriptive, it shows what is there even when it is impossible for a god of that world to make it so.
    We know that Titles have effects, but they are limited and specific. His Divine Enemy title didn't make him anyone's enemy, the Demon King one didn't make him want to take over the world. Titles are the least impactful item in the status, why would that be the only thing that changed by him becoming a literal god?
    We have the Demon King thing to prove another point... He has it as a Job, Title and two Skills... He could probably get it as a race if he mutated himself sufficiently. He could probably get it if he had a monster rank in the right tree. God-type entries could show up as any of them, we already have examples in the Demigod skill, Demiurge and other Jobs, and a few other people who took the mortal ascent route. It's a safe assumption that it will involve multiple items that work together like Demon King.

    Nobody is missing it though. Saying different ways doesn't make it true. The whole point is questioning why it says that when Dark Elf or Chaos Elf would make more sense. Questioning if the fact it has changed has any significance given that it shouldn't normally matter.

    And that means shit because... Why? Van seems to invent new a species if he sneezes too hard near a pregnancy or egg or tree, Darcia's running around converting people's races from Lawful Neutral to Chaotic Good, Van's citizens apparently manage to change race if they dream about him too hard, you can get to be a succubus by chilling in a cocoon like some weird butterfly, and don't forget how ranking up can make people grow extra body parts to look cooler.

    Do you seriously think any part of Lambda's existential experience cares what biology has to say about things?
    Do you seriously think mere physics and biology stand a chance when the goddess that rules over the literal concept of life makes sweet incarnation to Darcia before shoving her in a body that Van cooked up by throwing a bunch of stupidly excessive ingredients in a divine Easy-Bake oven fueled on plotinum?!
    Given that the main significance of that field is life span, and Van fixes people's ages like he's updating a government spreadsheet, do you think maybe the relevant subordinate gods decided it's completely meaningless to bother with life expectancy and instead took the opportunity to troll Van yet again?
    Do you seriously not remember this is a world where things like rain and fire only operate properly because some gods and goddesses are sitting around in a divine realm and glaring at reality to keep it running?

    So fuck causality and fuck him being a decade older than his mother, because Time apparently does whatever the hell a genie tells it to and I'm sure whoever is making things happen in the right order will send you to the Life or Status department to demand an explanation. They can't send you to ask the Records department because Van ate him!

    Excuse me, I have Mr Pot on line 1 and Mr Kettle on line 2, also the plot is here for your meeting about a contract to supply ACME GODS AND MAGIC!
     
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  8. ssj4maiko

    ssj4maiko Welcome Back Sadpanda!

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    2 reasons:

    1 - It's easier to manage from the current location. It wasn't some decision of Alda, but the Divine Realm he and his faction resides is the original Realm used by all Great Gods in the past, meaning, Vida and others can't help maintain the world because they can't go there (without being attacked and sealed)

    2 - The reason the Gods can't go to the ground anymore is because of the miasma (also translated as "corrupted mana") spread by Guduranis, Evil Gods and Monsters. It's important to remember that in the past, only around 3K people survived, this is also to indicate that the entire population of the world at that time could live in a small portion of land, and the rest of the world went unmanaged (Arc 12 reveals a bit more of information about this).

    So because of this miasma, the Gods can't roam on the ground anymore. If the world were to ever be cleaned somehow again they would be able to come back, but the chances of cleaning the whole world while the Evil Gods continue releasing more miasma by merely existing, and it would likely cause problems to other races (Remember how the Ghouls became weaker if they left the Devil's Nests?), so that's unlikely to happen.

    ------------

    And about the whole race change stuff. Yes, Van is a Dhampir, and the race is just to indicate who the mother is, so one would expect this to affect nothing of Van's "DNA" and stuff. However, at the time the chapter was released in JP, people asked if that changed his lifespan, and the author said that his lifespan is now infinite. But of course, he would already be able to practically live forever with his magic, so nothing really changed.

    So, Word of God vs Logic, and in these cases, Word of God wins.
     
  9. Kaithar

    Kaithar Well-Known Member

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    Well, yes, but it makes logical sense too... The lifespans are pretty much all over the place and I can't believe it's for purely biological reasons. Given Vida rules the abstract concept of life and all involved, it implies there's a subordinate looking after lifespan... Or more accurately, moderating processes to control ageing. It would seem logical, in a world with nonsense like attribute values for strength, that increasing a persons max lifespan is a clerical task more than actually changing their body.

    When/where was that confirmed? I thought those in Zantark's domain were doing their role in maintaining, and the status related ones are in an isolated space so they aren't exactly there either...
     
  10. Mastine

    Mastine Well-Known Member

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    Isn't the whole reason Rod wants Van exterminated at all costs because you can only extend a mortal with life magic for so long before they go through his system anyway? I recall he viewed undeath as a temporary nuisance rather than a bug like death magic fueled immortals.
     
  11. secretish

    secretish Well-Known Member

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    It was the soul breaking/eating that causes problems for Rod, not the undead/death magic (although those are annoying to him). Rod's system got a ton of errors when Van first broke a soul, and that's what caused him to even notice Van was still alive, if I remember right. Every soul in Rod's system that Van breaks/eats causes a ton of bugs, and Rod is afraid it will mess up his whole system if Van starts mass-breaking/eating souls.
     
  12. Kaithar

    Kaithar Well-Known Member

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    Rod wants Van killed cause he knows he'll get wrecked one way or another if he doesn't stop the crazy train of Van powering up while Alda becomes increasingly unimpressed with basically everyone. Rod's approach to this so far has been adding more fuel to the crazy train and throwing stuff on the tracks to make for a suitably lethal derailment. This is precisely as stupid as it sounds.

    The situation is now in a vicious cycle of Rod trying to cause trouble because he's afraid Van is coming for him when he gets enough power, while Van is powering up off most of the trouble and getting more reason to deal with Rod. All the while, their stupid plan to power up Rod by spreading his name around is instead cutting off his escape routes.

    Having read ahead in the spoilers now, I'll just say that last sentence is particularly hilarious and ironic in the long run, we will see it backfire on him many times.

    Also, it looks like a more accurate assessment of Alda's divine realm nonsense is that he's done the god version of changing the locks on Vida's faction, they could break in but would be overwhelmed, so Alda's been treating it like a fort, as expected. "Locking them out" is what has deprived them of some of their authority. I suspect we could have pieced that much together by actually going back and checking what was said by various Gods, but it's mostly irrelevant since most of the other gods were too busy or hurt to try and get into the system.

    And another also... It should have been obvious but no, the gods absolutely can get direct presence on the surface and the problem is the power cost of doing so and the extreme vulnerability it creates, precisely as the Heroic Spirits were saying. I say it's obvious because of how many examples we have to work with.
    • Fitun descended by vessel and got eaten for his troubles, same with a bunch of his Heroics.
    • Zantark converted a section of the world to be a divine realm, but none of the inhabitants are stuck there.
    • Vida seems to have the resting grounds in a dungeon-type realm, but I suspect she could have exited at any time if she felt powered up enough to do so, and we know she can descend into Darcia no problem.
    • Bodeogan... That mountain guy whose name still isn't sticking, is a full god and is bodily on the surface, though protected by Van.
    • There's actually enough suggestion to know that Botin should or her attendants/guards should be physically on the surface as she was sealed there, Peria is less clear so far though. Either way we should definitely have answers on them and related demigods when Van gets closer in the next arc
    • Yuepon had a spirit clone in that ice spear, which sorta counts as a workaround
    • We know both Bellwood and Farumon were moving around the surface as Heroic Gods after the God War
    • Familiar spirits can descend fine, so there shouldn't be anything overly harmful to the weakest inhabitants of a divine realm.
    • Thinking back, I'm pretty sure that Vida's faction have explicitly stated they barely had the energy for messages, so bodies would be out of the question, while Alda's faction, at one point, I think there was an explicit statement that if one of their gods tried to descend the energy cost would make the barely running world system collapse.
    So the whole miasma thing doesn't really present them an issue, and we know the defected Evil Gods can happily chill with the native ones without either being harmed by mana. Either way, unless I seriously miscounted, we get a bunch of insight into the gods and status system in Arc 12.
    Also, hilarity and badassery from all friendly locations, so I'm hyped. There may be scenes of excessive hand-holding and flirting.

    I think someone mentioned the jobs and named mythology god jobs... Something about that... "Soon (tm)"
     
  13. Zamzukan

    Zamzukan Well-Known Member

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    Ok.
    The recent lockdown on Joshi's part has proven, that if someone were to lock him in a basenent and made him translate without distractions, it would increase the amount of released chapters.

    I'm not saying to do it. I'm just saying, that if you thaught about viability of such drastic measures, which i assume we all did, it would work.

    Also it proves, that he could certainly make a living as long as he doesn't run out of chapters
     
  14. Legowaffles

    Legowaffles Well-Known Member

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    I have it on good authority, that if we all Praise Rodcorte and Alda, that they'll lock him in a chair, forcing him to translate good stories until the end of time and beyond.
     
  15. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    God isn't a title, though something like 'God of Thunderclouds' would be. It's not quite a race either because as the evil gods show, the gods are actually of decent races. A god is a being that gains power from worship, has a soul that can survive independently from the body, typically rules over a certain concept etc. You could say it's more like a classification that wildly different being can be lumped under. I mean, technically, those like Gufadgarn are actually still living, breathing entities. ...Assuming it used to breathe when it was just a 4d antlion, that is. You get the point.

    Van's profile also says that he is a Dhampir with the non vampire part of his heritage being 'goddess' rather than dark elf now. As you've said, this doesn't actually make a great deal of sense and it may not be LITERALLY true from a genetics standpoint but rather the status system instead just kind of fudging the numbers a little, so to speak. It's also possible that since this is a different world he actually did change in some way when Darcia was elevated to Vita's avatar. We don't know what it means, if anything.

    Naw, the evil gods all beat him to that. They're all living beings who gained so much strength that they became gods. I mean, the author doesn't seem to realize that, but there really isn't anything different between him and Gufadgarn except that he looks more human that Goofy does.

    As for why the gods can't safely descend to the surface, here is my speculation: It costs a LOT of energy upfront to descend down as well as a small but non negligible amount to stay once you're there. Alternately, once down there, they can't do their jobs as gods as easily. Thus, Alda and co. all had to pack their things and head upstairs when like 90% of the gods were knocked out of commission or whatever. Now, it WOULD be possible to head back down and live like they used to, but it would make them highly vulnerable for a time and also leave them unable to do their jobs. So they've never bothered. We do know that gods just being on the surface by itself and staying actually isn't impossible or anything, as evidenced by Goofy, Zantark, the evil gods and so on chilling there all the time.

    The problem with this theory though is that we just had heroic spirits saying they pretty much literally can't go down and stay. But gods and heroic spirits aren't the same thing, so maybe that upfront cost is just so high that that alone does them in.

    The other possibility is that the person above who said the surface being corrupted was right. Not to the point that gods can't come down and stay at all, but rather that it makes it harder to arrive and harder to stay than it used to be. Vida and so on don't have this problem because some never really left for their divine realms at all and some of them have placed them in on the surface. Or maybe it's because since they never left, they've acclimated to it. Who knows? We really need more details for this to be anything but speculation.
     
  16. ssj4maiko

    ssj4maiko Welcome Back Sadpanda!

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    Vida, as the goddess of the Life Attribute, gave birth to races with very strong vitality. This is why, for example, even if Beastkins grow faster than humans, like humanoid monsters like Orcs, Goblins and Kobolds, and more recently, Half-Noble Orcs like Pauvina, they still live longer than humans. Sasuga Vida-sama.


    This is a mix of later development and Densuke explaining in the Raw's comment section.

    Zantark is not managing the world, Farmoun took his position over as God of Fire, you can understand it as similar to how Alda got the authority over Life. Besides, Zantark is not the same Zantark anymore, because he is fused (Which is also the same reason why not many can understand him anymore). So Zantark and any God that followed him (Although there is no mention of any God of the Fire attribute by his side) could not manage the world anymore. Once Farmoun left Alda, he made preparations to be able to Manage the world while away, the same thing Bacias did, so because of these preparations, these Gods can still manage the world. But Vida, Zantark, Ricklent, Zuruwarn, Botin and Peria, since such developments were not predicted, never had any way to prepare anything for such occasions.

    The gods of the status system were isolated to avoid Guduranis interfering more with the status, as he did by adding the God of Ranks. But again, those had been prepared.

    If you understand a bit of technology, it's like preparing a divine computer at your divine job, and then divinely connect to it remotely, and divinely using it to do the divine stuff you can only do inside that Divine Realm. You can think of it like that.
     
  17. Donce

    Donce Well-Known Member

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  18. Kaithar

    Kaithar Well-Known Member

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    Seems it's more screwy than that, though I am having to extrapolate to fill gaps... Strictly, "God of Thunderclouds" in terms of the actual position and authority should be a Unique Skill... We see Demigod and Demon King there already specifically for that reason.
    The Title aspect should reflect how worshipers view and refer to the god, we have examples in Bacias's bio I think? Those influence in subtle ways so I would expect the "God of Something" Title to help them meet the expectation, like I doubt the moonless night authority actually has things related to prostitues natively, but the associated Title probably does. Think of how we expect Holy Mother Killer and Divine Enemy to tweak how other people tend to think of the owner.
    The relevant Job ... Ok, just saying, the God of Jobs is a total troll. Anyway, whatever the actual name of the Job they god was, either a generic God job or one with specific details, will convey skills and such about how to actually do the duties. Think back to the Demiurge Job activating some divine abilities.
    Finally, Race makes more sense if you look at monster examples. When someone ditches their body to become a ghost, their race changes accordingly. Was Levia originally a Broad Ghost or was there one before that? Either way, becoming incorporial as a ghost or a spirit should be the same, so true gods that aren't incarnated or in a vessel should have a Race entry reflecting their location in the divine heirarchy. Have we ever seen a familiar spirit status readout? I would guess that a god with a physical body has a split status like a dhamphir, only it instead lists the species of the vessel and god as the fields, like "Elf (Vessel of Evil God)" ... Which actually raises a point... Bet if Vida got a vessel as a gift from Darcia you'd see "Chaos Elf (Hosting: Goddess)" ... Might get an answer to that if we see some vessel status readouts.

    Anyway, the point is that things get split up to give name overlaps like Demon King

    Without spoiling the epicness, we'll get a better answer soon, just know that Status-san and friends are suffering from "I've no idea what he is anymore", which is causing bugs.

    Speaking of which, I have a hunch that should totally have been an obvious possibility. As I've been writing this I had the sudden moment of clarity that Van's curses are probably breaking stuff really badly. Say Van got appointed to take over as God of Records, normally that would probably be done by setting his Job to what Curatos had, what that is doesn't matter. Only, Van can't have that Job ... It already exists. See where I'm going?

    When Van got the qualifications to become a Demigod, normally the Job system would probably offer that as a Job option, but Van can't doo that, so the God of Jobs threw together Demiurge based on the same data and offered that as a workaround. But Van is heading for full god eventually, and that involves some serious skills being installed and more existing jobs.
    So, in a kludge, the God of Jobs is taking fhe skills Van would get from those Jobs and other system parts, and is packaging as a multipart Job collection. My hunch is that every one of those Named Jobs he already has available to take are containing an appropriate part of the powers he qualified for but couldn't get normally, and the name reflects the content.
    If I'm right, I bet I know what he needs Oeroborus for... And the theory sounds consistent with certain weirdly named Jobs he takes much later on.

    Live patching souls on the production servers! Lmao

    Exactly, but vitality as an attribute value not biological this. I refer back to Van's strength stat and actual muscles.

    As long as he doesn't start saying Onii-chan, I'm fine calling it an upgrade. Zantark is and isn't the same Zantark like how Reincarnatees fuse two personalities when regaining their memories.

    Aaaah, that makes a lot more sense of how that didn't breat things.

    Still, the securing of that connection must be something to let them not be interfered with.

    Aaaaaaaaaah, they've got a VPN into the Corporate Divine Realm, it all makes sense. Hope it's properly secured, the security team will be miffed... Where do we look for a God of Firewalls? Ciscos?

    Well, that makes sense. Guess Zuruwarm is in charge of Infrastructure Capacity and Provisioning? At least they don't have to worry about incriminating log files, we know who would deal with those and Van ate him already. *writes lines of "I will not refer to Van as /dev/null"*

    The world maintenance duty has always confused me, it implies that they are a Prachett-esq abstraction and literally host rules
     
  19. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    Gods and heroic spirits don't actually have statuses. It's suggested that maybe they gain exp when they kill stuff and maybe they don't, but either way they don't really level like that or anything.

    Well, gods don't, I think. Heroic Spirits just don't have ranks.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  20. Bielt

    Bielt 『Planets Eater』『The Sin of Animosity』

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    Am I the only one incredibly annoyed by Ketchup again?
    I mean he did think one thing right, Van IS possibly the most dangerous being in the world, so getting stronger and then trying to talk with him is a logical thing and the right path to take.

    But that is literally the only right thing he said in the entire chapter...
    Like he once again brushed off the entire Ghoul conundrum!
    He says that he can't do what Van do because he doesn't have the skill so it's not worth the effort to try
    Well surprise! Van also doesn't have a skill for making Ghouls follow him! His title Ghoul Emperor makes them less agressive towards him, but guiding them and convincing them to change has always been done through diplomacy!

    Like even with the Dark Elves which were literally his mother family he had to negotiate and convince them, sure Heinz doesn't have the title but he could try to gain their trust slowly and change things in the long game, but he simply ditches the possibility cus his skills doesn't make Ghouls fall head over heels to him in the instant they meet >.>




    Also I got really triggered by how he got jealous that Van can do things like save people and provide a safe place to ghouls and such...
    Like rly? Instead of being inspired to do better, to reach the same level as Van and be able to provide a safe place for those that need, he simply feels jealous...
    Rly? I mean if you have a guide job and has the intention of becoming as strong as Van why not actually founding your own country too? I mean that would actually be a pretty good counter against Vidal Empire influence in the world you know?

    I will not even mention the stupid things he thought about the boundary mountain range, cus he is part of Alda fact which definitely doesn't understand that the monster countries have been collaborating with each other for millenniums before Van arrived...
     
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