Discussion ===== Mega Merged WW & Qidian Thread (1.0) ======

Dude, you're fucked so bad that even Qidian haters aren't agreeing with you.

 

Then you just stated the fact that his argument is invalid which I'm right. I'm not saying that the law made by the international court was mandatory and should be followed. Plus, even is mandatory I already lose faith in humanity cause people can literally thru money on the court to win. Just ranting the fact that I don't expect China to be giving to the netizens...

 

???

 

another squid thread got merged into the great big thread so context is needed the op of the thread brought up human rights law in china, but china does a poor job enforcing it, therefore I said good luck trying to get it enforced.

 

Anyone else notice the radio silence from Qidian/China Reading people here.. It's too quiet.

 

No matter what they say we are all going to shit on them.
Silence is their best strategy, I'm honestly surprised they figured that out though with how stupid they are.

 

Qidian is owned by an ultra-rich Chinese company that does anything and everything to gets its way. Tencent is not reputed to be an ethical company. In fact, they were even dissed by other companies and individuals like Jack Ma and Wang Zhidong. If the parent company is already an ethical mess, what of the subsidiary? Despite my bias towards WuxiaWorld, Qidian won't be defeated by a measly number of readers running away that didn't even pay to read in the first place (for now). They're probably laughing at our attempts to boycott the site and leaving bad reviews on their Facebook page and app (of which I've done too).

They'll increase the number of translators as well as novels that they host, and that will make people seep in again after the current onslaught, similar to that of TheFineBros' fiasco. Then, they'll most likely implement a paywall similar to that of their original site. Rub their hands together, and cash will flow in. Therefore, I highly doubt that they will reconsider their aggressive strategy.

The only way for WW to come out on top is to win in court, and legal takes a long while (I doubt Qidian will go for a settlement). This is why many translators decide to abide by the NDA and try to control information, so that when the time comes, there won't be much issues. So buckle up, ladies and gentlemen, this ride isn't ending anytime soon.

Just my 10 cents.

 

They can see how many readers they lost. Never said they'd get no profit, but they'll get a hell of a lot less than wuxiaworld if we stick to our guns and a majority of us ignore the site until they get their act together.

The parent company being money hungry actually helps. The higher ups at qidian will catch tons of flack due to not predicting the outcome and losing easy profit for no reason. Might even get a few of them fired. Working for a giant corrupt asshole company is a double edged sword. Sure it can help you strongarm, but it also doesn't take much for them to find an excuse to lay into you either.

 

What I don't understand is that Qidan claim that they own ownership of all the novels in their site and these novels translated versions of other languages. To this point there is no problem to their claim, but the problem is some of their books purely plagiarized from other novels from all around the world that already licensed and monetized by other companies. Meaning is they are vulnerable to dmcas by these companies if they enter the international market. While their claim hold for their homeland, I don't know what will happen to these novels which they claim to "own" in "all languages".

 

Well thats...pretty crappy to put it lightly. Then again whenever it comes to business for large companies this kinda thing happens all the time, the only difference is how far and what methods the company uses.

I only read a handful of CN novels now and have only tried 2 new ones in the past 2 months, so haven't really been paying attention to this kinda thing all that much, but I can still feel how bad it is for the readers that do enjoy many CN novels.

On another note I just couldn't help but find it ironic that Qidian are taking steps to prevent people from copying stuff from their website when it feels as if the concept of copyright doesn't exist in China...
Sorry I just can't help but have a very negative mindset when it comes to the words "copyright" and "China" are together when one time was just casually browsing the app store and find THIS https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/the-alchemists/id905731028?mt=8
Oh gee that looks familiar...oh wait! https://vndb.org/v5652
Doesn't help I can pretty much find some Chinese bootleg, knockoff or just reskinned version of many well known/popular games if I try hard enough *looks at Final Combat*
OK that turned into a mini rant...but seriously, bunch of hypocrites.

 

Actually, with all the bootleging that chinese companies get away with, it makes you think.
Can't translators change a bunch of names and the title and get away from all this copyright bullshit?

I mean, they get away with this crap after all

Spoiler

 

I am starting to give this shit not a flying fuck anymore. Although the hate for qidian is still proportional. But I am bored.

Person A says, "Qidian is not in the wrong. Every company does that. Just real life happened. We can't do anything."

Person B says, - "They are not wrong. But the way they are doing things is absolute dick. We should strive together for a better community."

Person A, says "It won't do shit."

Person B, says "We won't know until we try."

Person A, "It won't"

Person B, "It will"

A few millenias later..

Person A - "it won't"
Person B - "it will."

 

It doesn't really matter what other people think, do what you want. As far as the qidian vs ww thing goes no one knows who would win the legal fight because of nda, although ww must have some confidence or it wouldn't fight back at all.

Whether I'd read a Qidan novel or not, lets just say I look past the issue of the employee contracts seeming very sketchy. If things go paywall I doubt the novels would be very affordable. Consider this, would you rather buy a web novel or a professionally written, edited, beta-read, and marketed fantasy book if both were sold at the same price? Not only is the book higher quality, but the cost of making it is much greater than a webnovel, so what would the excuse be for both being the same price?

In general mass market paperback books cost around 10$ to read, with used books costing slightly less. Let's say a novel has 1000 chapters, then if the paywall was 0.01$ per chapter that novel would cost 10$ to read. So you are paying equal money for a lower quality good at 0.01$ per chapter. Let me ask another question, do you think Qidian will only charge 0.01$ per chapter?

Thus if Qidian did start charging, I'd probably only be willing to pay for a monthly subscription to their website to access their library, and only if I was planning to do heavy reading that month. Paywall is just too expensive, not worth it especially when I have higher quality options. If they did make it a paywall I'll just forget about cn's and buy fantasy books. Maybe Id also read english or kr webnovels. Might not even wait around for a paywall and start doing that right now .

 

A thousand chapter novel will be at least 1.5 million words. That is still higher than the entire Harry Potter series' word count (~1 million, a set costs ~$55 for the ebook version). Yes, the quality is definitely incomparable. But it's more about quantity than quality.

 

Get rid of filler and repetitive scenes and I wonder how many words you end up with? I know that during editing, books are made extremely concise, cutting away any useless plots or descriptions, all in an effort to reduce unnecessary page count so that stories don't drag on and on. Books will lose hundreds of pages during editing, raising their standard a full grade no doubt. Also note even 1300 page western fantasy books cost 10.00$ mass market paperback. Those publishing companies seem to not charge per word, but rather per story. I also value books and fantasy stories, like wn, that way in general.

 

I've been saying for a while now that the Translators are stealing the works of the original authors the only response I get is that either somehow translating a work counts as transformative or that the author somehow has permission to give the rights of translation to novels whose rights they have already sold to another party. I guess the supposed upcoming court case will determine if I was right or not regarding the legal rights of the translators. It was bound to happen sooner or later considering most of the Chinese novel translation community embraces a culture that really didn't seem to care about the legality of their actions.
It might be a dick move but I agree with the other guy that there really isn't a logical reason people have to be so upset (besides the lack of face being shown to grand-pappy Ren) that Qidian is deciding to enforce the legal right that they seemingly have to these novels. And regarding their treatment of translators, that seems to be more of a cultural difference, not the "slave labor" people are making it out as, I mean the translators are now getting paid by the legal entity that owns the work that they were technically stealing the entire time.

 

As many people already discussed translation someone's work is not stealing.
It is not a sin.
And under no contract, all translated works belongs to the translator.
But he can't make monetary gains of his works without receiving original right holder(usually authors, in this case Qidian)
It is always legit to translate but your translated works can be taken down if you don't have rights.
That's why WW bought those rights. (Not to get taken down)
No one is stealing the entire time.
In no way qidian owns the translated works (unless they paid for it), translated works are always translator's possessions.

 

1. Show this, if I literally just took Harry Potter and translated it to Spanish and tried to monetize it are you saying this isn't stealing? I don't believe that would never slide in court and no amount of "nuh uh" will somehow convince me otherwise, if you have actual legal precedence of someone translating a copyrighted work that they don't own and monetizing it and doing it legally please post it.
2. In most religions, stealing is a sin actually.
3. The point is that if the translator is stealing the original works and not transforming them in a way that invalidates their copyright, then no, their translations don't belong to them. They would probably then belong to the rightful owner of the story.
4. The problem is that many translators do just go and monetize works with no permission, usually just excusing the illegal activity with "I couldn't get a hold of the author."
5. It's not "always legit" to translate if your work can get taken down because your translations are works that you don't own. That is literally why ones work would get taken down, because its not legit. You literally just said something at the beginning of one sentence and contradicted yourself at the end of the same sentence. If you don't have the rights to the novel then you technically don't have the
rights to translate it.
6.WW seems to have bought rights to a few novels but those don't seem to be in question, what seems to be in question are the additional novels Qidian advised them to start translating with an oral understanding that they would work together to get WW the rights to those novels, then Qidian wanting WW to take down the novels they started translating due to Qidians advice after negotiations fell through.
7. If someone is stealing the intellectual property of another, that is still stealing. So yes many people in the community are actively stealing and the thing is that most people just want to rationalize why it is okay with arguments that really don't seem to hold any legal water.
8. If you have any proof to back this claim up please provide it, you've given no evidence that someone translating something make it theirs in a court of law. Everything I have ever seen regarding the rights of translations are going against what you are saying. The same thing happened with Japanese novels a few years ago and the legality of claiming ownership of someone elses intellectual property due to translation was shot down over, and over, and over again. It literally killed the Japanese translation community, which is why Korean and then Chinese novels have taken over since then.

 

@Brungles
Dude, you dont even read what I wrote.
But to clarify something, I must tell you this.
1. You can translate wtf you want, but you can't use it for monetary gains aka make money from it. And with all seriousness, I have seen many people make money from translating without permission, English to my mother language (but in small amount usually around 100$-1000$, our country's reader base is not so developed). No sane publisher would try to sue someone in my country for 100$. And to your words, you can translate HP to Spanish and show it to your friend or whatever but no, you can't monetize it (your words).
2.In most region stealing is a sin.
But why tf you think translating =stealing?
People translate since ages ago, mostly without permission, the most famous one would be Bible?
3. Your point just seem to be coming straight from qidian statement, i lol at that.
You seem to think all translated works are belong to original owner, in your case, the big bad wolf. Hell no, translated works don't belong to your original owner.
If the original owner doesn't like it, he can claim he don't like that.
If someone is making profit from it, he can sue and stop them from making money.
But he can't demand all previous translated works for his new site to post.
Saying I hate piracy and stuffs and demanding those pirated stuffs to be posted on their own, really?
4.As I am saying you are obsessed with the idea of translation without permission is stealing.
No,it is not stealing, you can google or read a book or something.
5. Just read this , I hate your wall of texts as you don't look like you know what you are typing.
6. From qidian representative's old posts, they says their works are free to translate and they won't ask the fan translators to take down. And WW has already have signed a massive number of books (Yes, signing 20 books is a massive number in our community. The usual number would be 1-4 books).
Do you think someone should go back to his word to the community and started betraying his business partner who earns him money?
If you answer yes then we won't talk anymore.
7. You just hate the community,do you? Just google Intellectual and see how your statement is differ from its very definition.
8. As I was saying translation itself is legal, but it is arguable for showing it to others.
Arguable , look at these big black text. So most translators are broke or students or have life.
They don't want to argue over law and stuff. They don't want to argue at the court even more.
Some of them take their works down themselves before any action hit them.
You saying took down, took down, etc. But those took down are mostly due to lovable colorful illustrations from the original book covers. Not because of translation itself. Yes, it is arguable.
Well, I don't know what to type anymore, I should go play some games.
Byeeee