Discussion Minor rant on Second Chance

I'm not going to say that I don't understand why it is popular, but does every damned revenge plot about an mc that dies at the start have to turn back time?
Where is all the stories about the mc haunting their enemies as a ghost?, or reincarnating shortly after in the same world?
I just find it rather uninteresting when these "revenge" plots puts the revenge before the events that are meant to be avenged have even taken place, seem more interesting to me if the revenge is carried out after the enemies have already reached their prime and done all the evil deeds.
I'm mostly wondering if this heavy focus on second chance is the same in the chinese(or japanese/korean) sources or just that they happen to be the ones being picked up for translation?
Don't get me wrong I'm not really talking about stories where the revenge is only a tiny little event at the start before the real adventure begin but rather where the revenge plot is a major portion of the story.

One example of something I would like to see more of is with all those imperial wifes that are killed by their husband in favour of another consort, rather than the mc being sent back in time I would like to see a story where the mc is reborn as the child of the husband and consort, that would make for a very different family situation...

Any other alternatives to second chance that you guys want to see more of?

 

I think that you basically answered your own question.

The draw of revenge stories is to get back at those responsible. Hence you get a lot of stories following the same formula. If they fail to deliver, they lose the audience as quickly as they gain them.

And there's the rub. How many revenge stories are out relative to the other story genres? It's actually a tiny amount. Maybe 10...20 on this site? They just have some reliable translators doing good work.

You notice them because of their peculiarity, not because they're flooding the place.

 

My issue with these second chance stories though is that they "don't" get back at the ones responsible, they place the revenge on characters that happen to have the same name and appearance as the culprit but are partially or in some cases fully innocent as far as the crime is concerned since it hasn't even happened yet(even if they might still be just as malicious), while the actual culprits are quite possibly living happily ever after in the original timeline.

 

That's seriously meta. While I do understand, I think it's silly pursuing justice across time and space in a world that you have no part of anymore. On the bright side, the culprits aren't innocent. Sure they haven't actually pulled the trigger this time, but they are making plans to backstab you already.

Besides, what's to say that that world actually continues? There are schools of thought that claim that there is only one timeline that can exist at a given moment. If the second chancer is already in that timeline, then the alternate timeline has already ceased to exist.

 

I like those stories though because it gives you a sense to save yourself and everyone else. Imagine your family was brutally raped and totured, some sold to slavery afterwards and the rest ever so slowly killed, including you. You die and reborn. Sure that person hasn't done it yet, but I'm sure as hell not giving them a chance to do it all over and get some satisfactory payback.

It is an extreme scenario, but I imagine most people wouldn't care about the specifics and get some revenge. It's my opinion on the matter anyways.

Also, I do admit there may be scenarios where they may also need a 2nd chance and turn out just fine. I guess the above scenario would make them evil to the core so it wouldn't matter if you got rid of them.

 

You know you want to give the genre a second-chance.

 

there are plemty novels like the ones you mention but they aren't the one you are ranting about. Thats a specific type, you know? Its not that every revenge story witha dying or dead MC is like that, but that it's the kind that's most popular and get's translated.

also, the last part? would make a great story fam, seriously.

 

It depends on how far back time is turned though, some stories are pushed back years before culprit has even considered the crime, while I can kinda accept some cases such as Chongfei Manual when it rewinds to pretty much the exact time the crime is about to happen.
Also even if going with the assumption of there only being one timeline, then the revenge is already done by the time turning alone unless the culprits get to keep their memories as well.

I'm not really saying that second chance is bad or that the culprits shouldn't be stopped before they commit the crime, I just wish I would see more revenge stories of this kind that doesn't resort to second chance since I want the bad people from the start of the story to meet a bad end more than i want it for their younger versions.

 

This is a really interesting idea actually and I'd love to see it, kudos coming up with such a great concept. There is a story that sort of spins on what you're saying, I can't remember the name of it but I'm sure NUF won't fail me and will provide, but a story about a woman who was used by the emperor to come to power and then spurned and abandoned for her half-sister, before being killed (typical plot), but comes back not in time but inhabiting the body of a woman well known as a "simpleton" (mentally immature) and uses her reputation and position as a harmless simpleton to seduce the emperor in a revenge plan. I never got around to reading it because my plate was full, but the premise was interesting enough I remembered it intended to go find it again but... forgot.

I think the main draw of these time reverse second chances aren't, as someone else suggested, to save the character and their loved ones from tragedy, but the same thing all reincarnation/soul transmigration/isekai novels are which is - power. Go back in time with decades of knowledge and wisdom, a chance to redo your training but without the mistakes you made last time out of ignorance, a chance to take advantage of opportunities snatched by others (Eg. Gu Daoist Master, whose MC has 500 years of knowledge, a fact the author will never let you forget because they will mention it two or three times a fucking chapters), etc etc. It's not about revenge, even when the plot is revenge. It's all about an excuse to make the MC wildly OP. The idea of a restless spirit whose anger and rage at being unjustly killed acts as a catalyst to send them back in time is just a convenient tool that provides opportunity, and the outline of a motive for plot.

 

get out

 

That's what she said. I'll tell you the same thing i told her 'okay i was done here anyway'

 

Similar to if you went back through time will you kill Adolf Hitler when he is just applying for art school or as a baby.

 

Ah, a moral dilemma. Killing an innocent man in that kind of situation is wrong, but you will save the lives of millions for it. To most its just a question of do you kill him or not, however people rarely think of the third option, which is try and change the man he is supposed to become. The effort wouldn't be in vain, since if it gets to a certain point and have even a basic grasp on history you can still save countless people. Of course this'd just be a waterd down version of the kill him early option, maybe resulting in at least some deaths, but at least you'd be less morally compromised than you would be otherwise.

 

I'd say that the two main draws of these revenge second chance novels is both the satisfaction of crushing the villains and being able to enjoy the bad end. Take away either of these, and the genre's not as fun any more.

 

There is also the question to if he really would go down the same path again even if you left him alone, or that little possibility that killing him might lead to someone else filling his position instead.

 

indeed. even your very presence in his timeline may change something that would cause him to divert from his original path. And some theorists believe the universe makes corrections when large-scale events are involved, or the death of someone is involved. If one is meant to die, they will die. Doesn't matter who or what kills them. So the second possibility does exist.

Isn't it strange how novels like these never really touch upon the effects of their...time travel? Although i suppose it's not really needed, right, since really it's not a body that goes back but instead your memory or consciousness? It wouldn't matter much in that case, eh?

 

Some of these second-chance revenge stories, just leave the reasons vague in why they are seeking revenge without the full scope of why.

If I'm to seek revenge, I want the person to fully know why it's happening, the said reason has to take place, guilt and suffering have to enter his mind. Just taking actions because of a previous life, will only bring short term happiness, but would be negative long term as other's will have no understanding and think I'm mad if I explain.

 

Now imagine you killing him leads to an alternate series of events which has more casualties, long-lasting effects etc. Congratulations, you're now the Hitler of that timeline and people will want to kill baby-you.

 

I think i'd be more of a Jack the Raper kind of dude.

 

You, OP, I like you.

Damn those revenge novels. It really begs the questions if getting back at them is 'fair' even if the said event hasn't happened yet. ( Though if I were the one who got a second chance, I'd also do the revenge shit, pettiness be damned.)

Are there any novels out there that do the second chance that also tackles this moral question?