@kitame in your debate you were correct. Missed the chance to jump in so I thought I'd say that. I was worried about the fast ending but I must say I loved it. Everything made sense and worked well together. A bit fast but it was great. I especially liked how he returned to conquer his home at the end. Nice addition. Plus I like the open ending. Leaves the imagination to run wild. Thank you OMA and team. You guys have given me days of entertainment and weeks worth of debates. Looking forward to your next project where I will be an ardent supporter. As to you Nuffians... I'll be looking forward to more debates in the next novel. Thanks for all the fun nights of heated discussion and theorizing. It was a blast.
Hah, WMW was fun. I'd like to comment on Asmodeus holding the idiot ball though. It was explicitly shown that Asmodeus knew that Beezlebub had been badly injured and that the person who had injured him was coming to finish him off, and did finish him off. It was also explicitly said that Asmodeus knew that that person was the same person known in the prime material plane as Leylin Faulen, *before* Leylin ascended and added part of Hell to his divine kingdom. And it was pretty strongly implied that Asmodeus generally ran rings around all the other Archdevils, was smart, a tricky schemer whose plots ran deeper and longer term than his competitors could fathom, and generally aware of what the other Archdevils were doing and thinking. When Leylin ascended to being a lesser god and took the 3rd plane of Hell as part of his divine kingdom, Asmodeus was severely injured in the process for reasons that aren't entirely clear. Also, Asmodeus was already his enemy at that point, and should have been plotting against him. If he was aware that Leylin grievously injured Beezlebub BEFORE Leylin was even born, that should have been a red flag. Even if his knowledge of the timeline wasn't that precise, he had to have known that Leylin must have eaten a large chunk of Beezlebub before he reach high levels or even mid levels. Given how obvious the signs of Beezlebub's injuries were, it's pretty much impossible for him to have been totally ignorant of the timeline of these events. Even a tiny bit of information about the timeline should have very strongly hinted that Leylin was fooling the World Will in to treating him as a mortal while actually being a being of laws that need to move in absolute secrecy. Furthermore, Beezlebub had been exploring outside the crystal shell for thousands of years, even moving his real body out there at least once, so if Asmodeus was really running rings around the other Archdevils he should have had suspicions just from Beezlebub's history that his foe was a being of laws foreign to the World of Gods. Leaking that information to Mystra or Tyr (who were already overtly opposed to Leylin) or even random other gods would have resulted in drastically more fierce opposition to Leylin's plans at that stage, and would have made things much better for Asmodeus even if Leylin hadn't chosen to use a layer of Hell as part of his divine kingdom. Even if Asmodeus kept that information in reserve not considering Leylin an enemy worth immediately targetting, that policy should have come to an end the instant Leylin separated layer 3 from the rest of Hell. Basically, it seems like either Asmodeus was an idiot who didn't realize Leylin was a Magus despite evidence staring him in the face, or he was an idiot who helped his enemy keep his secrets secret for no reason.
how can it be immortality, when he can get destroyed, devoured, etc by the others outside of his new divine kingdom... because if you analyze it, what happened is that he got his actual universe as his divine kingdom, the ppl inside it, won't be able to harm him, because they don't have the power in the scale as him, but the "guardians" or "overseers" of the other universes can harm him. the scale just changed. no true immortality for him yet.
Goodbye, Leylin. Hope you devour to your heart's content and outsmart others time and time again. On another note, I wish the author gave us a summary of what happened to the other characters or a simple epilogue chapter giving us some minor details of what happened to some of the people that have been affected by Leylin, since some of them like the one-eyed dragon just came and went.
The reason asmodeus was injured is that he tried to use his authority over hell and the primeval contract to stop leylin from merging his divine realm with hell. If it worked, then leylin would have been stuck outside it for tyr and mystra to kill. But instead asmodeus got injured from the backlash of this failure. I believe the reason he failed is that leylin had the arcanist flying city providing further oomph to the descending divine realm
Fucking dick move. Don't do that, let the people read that on WW. People worked hard to do the translation and hosting them on the site and you are taking the fun of reading comments .why would you do that?
Because if you analyse it, you're a broken record that doesn't know how to read comprehensive posts regarding your argument. I've already stated you're using a different definition of "immortal" than the rest of us are (at least most of us). Sure, you're welcome to feel right if you want, but we're not wrong either. You posted a quote about the definitions of immortality, and in that quote was "eternal life." Did Leylin achieve this? Yes. You're contradicting yourself.
IIRC it has been mentioned by leylin that age is not a problem since rank 7, and in fact rank 7s can respawn if killed unless specifically killed in a way that prevents them from doing so. Leylin even specifically mentioned that when he uses his overgod weapon to kill a peak rank 8, they will remain dead UNLESS a rank 9 being decides to resurrect them So, leylin has been working on the definition of "completely impossible to kill" from the beginning rather than "ageless" definition. And since that is his definition then the fact that there exist other rank 9 beings in other multiverses means he is threatened.
how can't you be wrong when you are using a mistaken definition of the word? just take any dictionary online or physical and check it. I think someone else needs to know how to read and understand what is being read. just taking into account the novel and what you are saying that he has already reached his goal, wasn't leylin when he reached lvl 5 already "immortal" he wouldn't die unless his clones got killed. wasn't leylin "immortal" when he became lvl 7 magus? even if his body was destroyed he could take time to come back from the astral river or time river. when he became the serpent god wasn't he "immortal" inside his divine kingdom? and now that he is rank 9 he is in the same situation, he is "immortal" in his universe no one from his universe can kill him, but oh surprise, there are other universes and ppl on his same scale of power that can kill him. so my friend you and that lot are mistaken... he hasn't reached eternity nor immortality he just have an unlimited life span but he can still die being destroyed by the guys in the same scale of power, or having his universe destroyed by others, that's why in the last part he is described hunting others, by context you can deduce that it is to increase his power to reach the goal that he hasn't reached yet.
You my friend are being a dick. Don't be a smartass. You are right. And you are wrong. Have you read any type of Cultivation novel on this site before you've read WMW? I would not claim that every novel is like this but the vast majority are. Immortality is used to define a being that cannot be killed in any natural way. They don't age, don't weaken. They are Eternal. Yet in all of these novels these immortals are being killed by those of equal power. It is a staple of the genre. You are having this debate on a forum where people read all of these cultivation, Xianxia, Xuanhuan novels. With these novels and the genre itself as our reference we are correct. With what you are referencing you are wrong and right. Immortality has many different definitions ranging from what you describe to what we describe. Maybe you want to learn how to read more definitions of a word than just the one that supports your argument. You are repeating the same thing over and over and I am tired of it. We all understand your point of view and opinion. We disagree in this context. Bring something new to the table or just stop. You are a broken record.
No, you are confusing who is arguing for what. The person you are quoting is the one who said leylin has been "immortal" (ageless but killable) since rank 5 and has always aimed at being impossible to kill. Heck, we have seen a rank 2 magus once who was ageless (at the cost of a period of weakness every now and then in which he drops to rank 1 in power and which he spends in seclusion, although it was a relatively rare technique for rank 2 magi) he isn't a dick or a smartass, he is just simply being CORRECT in saying that you are using a definition that differs from leylin farlier. Telling him to read more xianxia is pointless, we all know the definition in typical xianxia. but that definition is now what the MC of WMW (one Leylin Farlier) is actually trying to achieve. Kaminokan's whole argument is that the MC of the story WMW is not chasing immortality as defined by common xianxia, but he is chasing complete indestructibility.
wow... name it, oxford? collins? cambridge? wiki? ... your call my friend. smart ass? won't be easier admit that you lot are mistaken? [not that you will] since the beginning of the novel the reader knows that leylin comes from a futurist earth and he has stated lots of times what his goal is. WMW isn't a cultivation novel, it is more westernized so reading other xianxia, xuanhua, etc shouldn't affect in nothing the understanding of the novel. I also want you to remember that NU isn't just about CN novels, that WMW is a CN novel doesn't make it right that you base your understanding of it on the terms of the generic genres of CN novels, especially when the goal of the MC is clear since the start you can disagree all what you want, but the thing is you are mistaken in definition, because is not about the immortality that you see on cultivation novels, and even the novel says that he hasn't reached his goal. so I don't need to bring something new to the table because my arguments haven't been even come close to be dismounted. will quote the full thing, read it, understand it and then tell me has he reached his goal? Spoiler well... ppl, it was a nice chat, it was a nice novel, with a rushed and open end but still nice.
He is when he is being facetious by saying. "So my friend" in the context like this. The only time people do that is when they are being smart or trying to make a dig at someone. So yes, he is. Regardless of whether he is CORRECT or INCORRECT. I am very clear on who is arguing for which side. I apologize if I didn't make it clear enough in my point. There are 2 points here so I thought it was easy to grasp. Rank 9 has always been described as Eternal or Achieving Eternity. This Immortality description is only recent. Leylin has achieved what he initially set out to. He is an Eternal being as describe by the novel itself for hundreds of chapters. He got what he wanted, achieved his own definition of whatever version of the word you want to use. He got his goal, his pie at the end of the road. He has now realized that there is a bigger pie and there is something greater to grasp for. Just because he realized there is a more perfected version of what he seeks doesn't mean he hasn't achieved his initial goal. And I never told him to go read more Xianxia. I asked him in a perhaps poor way whether or not he is familiar with the genre and how the word is traditional used in it. Don't read into something I never said. Edited in since no Double Posting. http://www.definitions.net/definition/immortality Whether or not i am mistaken or not has no sway on you being a smart ass. (Which your were being) Leylin has always stated his goal as achieving Eternal Life (Since the beginning of the novel), which he now has. It comes with a caveat but he has still achieved his goal. He has since found out there is a better version of it and greater heights to reach but he has still achieved his initial goal. He is an Eternal being... with a caveat, but still Eternal. My point in bring up the Climate of Novel Updates was to tell you that everyone here is familiar with reading about novels where immortality is something natural that can still be outdone by external enemies at the same or greater level of power. Doesn't matter if it is more westernized (Which it totally is, no doubt). My point was to tell you what kind of group you are talking to. Taking into context the precedents set by so many novels on this site they are using the definition of the word that best fits this context from past examples. Being that Immortals can die to other Immortals. I'm now on my desktop so forgive me for not going into as much detail on Mobile, I hate those tiny keypads. Smartass... I read it, i understood it. He achieved his initial goal. After he achieved his initial goal he found out there are greater heights to reach and a more perfected version of it. He still achieved the goal he was reaching for the entire novel. Now he reaches for a greater version of it outside the novel, Still achieved it though.
It isn't really all that new. MC has stated that he can respawn from being killed as low as rank 7, but that was not enough because higher ranked individuals could prevent said respawning. MC did not actually achieve what he set out to do, because when he became the eternal one in his own multiverse, he discovered that there existed other multiverses out there that could end him. His sight was too small. As the MC advanced to higher realms, he always looked higher. In the last chapter of the story he again advanced realms, and looked higher again. Eternal youth is surprisingly low bar to achieve, it's just not what the MC has been after, he was after eternity of life (being unkillable), he was after freedom, he was after being the boss who doesn't have to fear a superior being killing him or bossing him around. This was made even more explicitly clear in the world of gods, where as a demigod (rank 6 in world of gods) MC already had eternal youth. As a lesser god (rank 7) he had respawning. We have seen magi achieve eternal youth as low as rank 2... and in fact we have seen leylin KILL the magus who achieved eternal youth at rank 2, and then arrange for his clone to die too to prevent his respawning.
As @Kaminomikan said earlier, Just taking into account the novel and what you are saying that he has already reached his goal, wasn't leylin when he reached lvl 5 already "immortal" he wouldn't die unless his clones got killed. wasn't leylin "immortal" when he became lvl 7 magus? even if his body was destroyed he could take time to come back from the astral river or time river. when he became the serpent god wasn't he "immortal" inside his divine kingdom? and now that he is rank 9 he is in the same situation, he is "immortal" in his universe no one from his universe can kill him, but oh surprise, there are other universes and ppl on his same scale of power that can kill him. So to say, he achieved his initial goal long ago. Then he got a perfected version. After that an even more perfected version. And so on until we reach Rank. Thus, Rank 9 is Immortality v.099, a single step from being perfect enough. Anyway, to conclude the decision, Spoiler: Overgod Ascension he DOES become invulnerable and eternal. he gets to Rank 10
Okay okay okay. I give guys. You're right on Immortality, He has been getting better and better versions of it as he goes along. It just took someone who wasn't being provocative and a smart ass the whole way to say it. @AardwarkThe2nd @mrttao Thanks. I still made some good points i stand by but on this (the meat of it) i do concede. @Kaminomikan Happy? Try discussing without seeping arrogance and attitude in your points. It goes a long way to people actually listening to you.
Yeah, now that the discussion is over, let's cry about Overgod Ascension and the near-zero chances Qidian will deem it worth TLing. Or we can call @Incarneous and ask him for more Leylin spoilers.