Discussion KCDS Gate - What happened (drama alert)

Hello guys,

Since my group is not a big one and not so popular the drama isn't known (and probably most of you don't give a damn) but I have to say something since there's things about me and my group in another thread.
I express in advance my apology if I'll be very crude and rough in my post.

I already posted something on my website concerning the money problem:
Click here if you want to know about it.

I will first answer to what a certain person wrote:

1. Calvis, when he started, did mention that he wanted to work with 'me'. However, now that I've left kobato, there is technically no longer a reason for him to stay.
A: Calvis said "After getting to know Chamber, I would like to work as a translator for your group" *you can check the discord PM log*
Probably you could say he wanted to work with you but why didn't he leave and joined you when you left months earlier? Anyway, that's just an excuse from my POV. I'll let other people interpret in their own POV.

2. Green Skin, Dragon Poor, as well as Stone of Days are technically his work. He can ask for them to be taken down. Kobato turning them into 'pending' posts so that he could potentially release them again was a d*ck move.
Personally, I don't have a problem with the previous chapters of God of Music, and Everyone Else is a Returnee, remaining on kobato's website. And you can find still find them there. AND, all the money that he would profit from ad revenue for those chapters will no longer go to me. it will stay with him. I have no problems with that either.
A: Never said it was mine. But why would I pay for something I would not technically have the right to host and keep on my website what I paid? Oh and you would say it's like Youtube and I already had my share of money? Sorry but I'm not Youtube and it's a different industry running under a different system. I would consider closer to a publishing house.
FYI, old chapters barely generate money after 1 month. (people read new chapters logically).
Oh and why I turned into pending posts? It may sound like an excuse but I wanted to have a last time to negociate with Calvis. And who tells you I was going to release them again after without asking Calvis? I know what would the bad consequences if I really made that d*ck move. Cons (on reputation, etc) are obviously bigger than Pros, right? Don't assume things on your own.


As for One Man Army, I retranslated from the beginning, so I didn't steal anything.
A: Yeah and did you ask me and the first translator? No. Already breaking etiquettes but I closed eyes and said nothing because I thought you were a friend, a little brother. I was naive.

3. As for I am the Monarch, I believe Calvis wanted his own releases (I think there were two) to be taken down, which is fair, but if he wanted to host all the previous chapters (done by Subak and CSV), then no, that's not good. But I find this point to be vague in the conversation, so I won't go further.
A: If you technically own stuffs, I am the Monarch should be owned by Subak and CSV. Did Calvis pay to own it then? It's not working that way anyway so it's already a paradox with the point 2. Calvis just translated one single chapter of it, moreover. I won't dig further down anyway.

4. So, it turns out, when they started working, kobatochandaisuki and Calvis did NOT come to an agreement - Calvis wanted a site to host chapters (aka all the chapters belong to him), while kobato wanted it so that he 'buys' the chapters (as well as the rights to use them? I'm not sure), which they did not talk about. Well that is the problem with working through the internet, I guess.
A: I let this for readers to decide.

5. Kobatochandaisuki, due to being 'busy', does not manage the website well. We all know that the website crashes a lot, and is also incredibly slow. People who turned adblock on reported 999+ blocked ads in the past. And a fix? I'm not sure if it's even fixed right now, after all, the site is still incredibly slow. Personally, I find it incredibly displeasing and difficult to work with a boss who's not even at work. I presume that many other people do as well.
A: Crashed were caused when I was trying new ads or new plugins to upgrade the website although I had to tinker here and there because I was never sure which one made the site crash and what was going into conflict each other. So I did something there.
999+ blocked ads? That's because probably for 2 reasons: 1. ads trying to reconnect because blocked by adblock and 2. video-type ad banners trying to load but since it's not a single picture, it makes that.
I recognize the website is slow but I can't do much with the current situation unless I rebuild the website. There's already too much things (plugins, widgets, server build) that were not done by professionals I would have paid so it's not a surprise.
Before,I had my studies, and now my internship (8 hours a day) + reports to do to validate my internship + trying to open a business with my father living in Korea so I can barely focus on something that's not essential for my future. And I'm on the verge of having a burnout. Fuck.

6. On the new announcement on the website, he tells us that he gains triple digits per month (I don't know server costs) doing practically nothing. I mean, if he does something then I might understand...
A: Do you think I'm a samaritan hosting for free??? And triple digits as like 150 USD a month thanks to various translators working in the group. Calvis was not even the one really bringing money with his starter series. I already say many times but series start to make money after 100~150 chapters.
And I happen to pay premium plugins or pay the server. I wouldn't need other people to translate and have my website if I wanted to earn money by my own work only and if I had times to afford doing so.

7. site-wide patreon was a d*ck move, and he expects to gain money from it? Pffft.
A: It is every translators benefitting from it. And the centralized patreon has also pros because patrons can access to multiple series that are done by other translators, not just one. It encorages more patronage. The revenue is additioned to the translators pay as well and it is already shown in the proof of revenue/expense I uploaded.

8. He treats everyone like a slave and a plebian, I mean, just look at his discord server. Readers are roled 'plebs' while himself is roled 'slave master'. This... is just a joke, right? Jung playing around... right? He doesn't actually think we're plebians and slaves, right?
A: *Facepalm*

9. He called ME, a TRAITOR? SERIOUSLY? WHAT HAVE I DONE WRONG TO HIM? First he calls me traitor when I started my own website to pick up dropped novels. (For those of you waiting for OMA and GoM... they aren't dropped, so wait patiently). I'm pretty sure I LEFT after finishing EER. It does not matter what I do until I go to military service and even after that, for that matter. That's MY problem. All of my previous translations with the exception of Coder Lee YongHo (due to publisher's disconsent) is still there, and he could potentially profit off it.
Yes. I DID delete Calvis's posts on kobatochan dot com. But that was HIS wrongdoing, not mine.
And for the record, kobato, if you're reading this (won't tag) I did not mention anything about you giving me not enough money and hogging the rest to yourself. Whatever you mentioned about 'backtalking' did not happen. We talked about something else.
Anyway, I believe I have no reason to be called 'backstabbing' kobato.
A: I didn't called traitor but I said he backstabbed me (뒤통수치다). I didn't even start a war when you took OMA. Think I was naive.
Hogging the money? I let people see with the uploads I made about me "stealing all the money"

Writing is tiring me and my hands are shaking due to the anger/deception/shock.
I will just upload discord PM logs and I'll let you see if I'm really a such bad a**hole. Maybe I am.
I don't have anymore the energy to write more anyway...back to doing my reports...

Discord chatlogs download: Click Here
Discord log reader (load downloaded file on log reader): Click Here

Thanks for reading.
PS: if you have questions, I'll try to answer when I'll have time and energy...
PS2: What I seek by publishing this post? To cry and whine...and to say what I feel and think.
PS3: I did some bad mouthing about Rainbowturtle but it's because I'm jealous.
PS4: I cannot keep things hidden since I'll just be called hogger or liar or whatever. I'm fed up after pilling up things after things and now I'm done. Things are out.
PS5: I'm not saying I'm all white and clean. But I won't let people say I'm the one who is entirely wrong and whatever defamation they claim on me.

EDIT:

Ok, I'll be the youtube now. *lol*

EDIT 2: BTW, for those who really think I'm serious when I call myself the slave master and call my staff slaves, you have some issues.

 

Be the bigger person. Keep chat messages private, don't fall to that level

 

I know but sorry but I can't keep it anymore.
I'll show the transparency the guys were asking for.

People will see what the truth is and I'll let them judge.
Not saying I did everything good and nice. Just showing things as how they are.

 

For the whole One Man Army thing, did Calvis wait for the previous translator to not post for 3 months? If he did and he wrote his own translations, then he doesn't need approval from anybody.

 

It's Chamber and not Calvis. I don't know if 3 months went but even if 3 months passed, it should be a common sense and etiquette to at least ask the group, I think...

 

Nah, I'm pretty sure the unspoken rule is 3 months and it's free. It's like how you have to wait a couple months to date your friend's ex. If you do it too soon, you gotta tell him but if it's been a couple months, she's free game.

 

But it's not a rule entirely approved by everybody and groups. And it's a manner to try asking at least, I think. It's not really like girl or boyfriend since the BF/GF has their own will anyway...

 

I've experienced more drama in this community than there is available on KBS.

 

This is a great example for translation groups going forward get stuff written and agreed upon verbal agreements don't help if one party is greedy. also I think this is great for KCDS to learn from and not make the same mistake in the future.

 

(Since this is the KR novel side of the community and I haven't really attached much so have no word to say. Only sit back and watch)

 

I do think so. We learn from mistakes but I'm afraid this pushes me to have stricter and written contracts over goodwill and discussions...

 

new motion to add poll options
*a hot babe
*who?
*the vocalist of "the who"

 

Awww... Here:


Now kiss and make up.

 

Strip his flesh and salt his wounds!

 

I don't think many translators will be willing to formally sign their translations over to you when they can translate elsewhere and keep ownership.

Unless you're going to make it worth it for them by guaranteeing pay that's at least at the minimum wage rather than the $3+ you promised Calvis in the chat log you posted. Seriously, no translator should be willing to sell over two hours of work with nothing more than $3 guaranteed in return, that's practically robbery. You can't have a formal written contract that essentially just says "I'll pay you what I arbitrarily feel the popularity of your series warrants, but it'll be at least $3 per chapter." Who gets what from the Patreon revenue should also be clearly disclosed.

 

It will sound harsh but I can't guarantee more for something that doesn't generate any revenues. I'm sure it's the case for many small groups and I already paid from my own pocket in the past and it wasn't a good experience neither for me. What I can say is: Try to run a website and monetize it and you'll see people have no choice but to be hard unless being very successful.
And translators see how many people have patronaged since they see the people who have access to the google folder drive.
Also, talking about ownership is...we could argue about this in various situation, etc. so I'll say that's a question I can't answer without being highly subjective.

 

Sorry, but if you're calling yourself a publishing house and yet can't afford to pay staff minimum wage then it simply isn't a viable business and you shouldn't act like it is one by trying to buy ownership of the work for far less than its value. Even Wuxiaworld doesn't force its translators to sell their work to the company.

You aren't at a stage where it's financially realistic to buy translators' work from them. If you can offer no more than any other fan translation site then there is absolutely no incentive for translators to come and sell their translations to you.

 

Please don't turn and assume what I said in such way. And WW is clearly a much bigger and successful group which is now a real company. So it's diffrent. I'm saying that concerning the system, we are more like a publishing house rather than youtube. That's all.

And although I'm not entirely "buying" work, it's somehow like. Then what about those paying less than me maybe?
I'm not even forcing people to join and when people join, there's the group and my rule since it's my website somehow...
Btw I feel your points are just to contradict me in a certain sense...

But I can accord translators should earn more but I'm not doing this for free or on my own pocket all the times either...And it's hard to do much better.

 

*sigh* honestly I'm too tired to deal with this but anyway I honestly think this is a case where no one is wrong nor right, I wanna be on Kovato's as on some of the matters he's in the right and has an actual solid reason but based on the chat logs and on what I've seen KCDS has been a major ass on some matters while on some things I can't really blame him, I know the above is pretty vague but I'm tired right now in conclusion? Neither of you is wrong or right but I will say both of y'all need to spend a few days to calm down and take the time when both you are Available to resolve it