News Calvis: Parting Ways with Kobatochan

it is funny because i once somewhat similar issue among mafia of who jas the right to control an area, but when the spec ops come down they pointing each other and blaming each other of criminal activity

then if it's from a translation organization or company, who own the right ? in a case one man translation and team translation

 

So there was a thread like this.... (found out because I got tagged by Calvis)

Before I start, yes, translation of novels (derivative works) and releasing it to unspecified individuals (aka the internet) is a grey zone, and it's technically illegal without consent from the original author AND the publisher (according to Korean Law). (if I remember correctly, there are cases where author gave the OK but the publisher was not happy with it), but I'm not going to mention any of that here, that's not what we're getting at here.

Personally, yes, Calvis was a little too rude in that conversation with kobato, and there were vague points at times (regarding I am the Monarch)

However, I am going to have to stand with Calvis for this one.

There are many reasons, some of which are personal.
1. Calvis, when he started, did mention that he wanted to work with 'me'. However, now that I've left kobato, there is technically no longer a reason for him to stay.
2. Green Skin, Dragon Poor, as well as Stone of Days are technically his work. He can ask for them to be taken down. Kobato turning them into 'pending' posts so that he could potentially release them again was a d*ck move.
Personally, I don't have a problem with the previous chapters of God of Music, and Everyone Else is a Returnee, remaining on kobato's website. And you can find still find them there. AND, all the money that he would profit from ad revenue for those chapters will no longer go to me. it will stay with him. I have no problems with that either.
As for One Man Army, I retranslated from the beginning, so I didn't steal anything.
3. As for I am the Monarch, I believe Calvis wanted his own releases (I think there were two) to be taken down, which is fair, but if he wanted to host all the previous chapters (done by Subak and CSV), then no, that's not good. But I find this point to be vague in the conversation, so I won't go further.
4. So, it turns out, when they started working, kobatochandaisuki and Calvis did NOT come to an agreement - Calvis wanted a site to host chapters (aka all the chapters belong to him), while kobato wanted it so that he 'buys' the chapters (as well as the rights to use them? I'm not sure), which they did not talk about. Well that is the problem with working through the internet, I guess.

Now comes the personal reasons

5. Kobatochandaisuki, due to being 'busy', does not manage the website well. We all know that the website crashes a lot, and is also incredibly slow. People who turned adblock on reported 999+ blocked ads in the past. And a fix? I'm not sure if it's even fixed right now, after all, the site is still incredibly slow. Personally, I find it incredibly displeasing and difficult to work with a boss who's not even at work. I presume that many other people do as well.
6. On the new announcement on the website, he tells us that he gains triple digits per month (I don't know server costs) doing practically nothing. I mean, if he does something then I might understand...
7. site-wide patreon was a d*ck move, and he expects to gain money from it? Pffft.
8. He treats everyone like a slave and a plebian, I mean, just look at his discord server. Readers are roled 'plebs' while himself is roled 'slave master'. This... is just a joke, right? Jung playing around... right? He doesn't actually think we're plebians and slaves, right?
9. He called ME, a TRAITOR? SERIOUSLY? WHAT HAVE I DONE WRONG TO HIM? First he calls me traitor when I started my own website to pick up dropped novels. (For those of you waiting for OMA and GoM... they aren't dropped, so wait patiently). I'm pretty sure I LEFT after finishing EER. It does not matter what I do until I go to military service and even after that, for that matter. That's MY problem. All of my previous translations with the exception of Coder Lee YongHo (due to publisher's disconsent) is still there, and he could potentially profit off it.
Yes. I DID delete Calvis's posts on kobatochan dot com. But that was HIS wrongdoing, not mine.
And for the record, kobato, if you're reading this (won't tag) I did not mention anything about you giving me not enough money and hogging the rest to yourself. Whatever you mentioned about 'backtalking' did not happen. We talked about something else.
Anyway, I believe I have no reason to be called 'backstabbing' kobato.

 

Sounds like a lot of he said she said that culminates in that he can work wherever he wants and doesn't really matter what happened.

Mostly sad I Am The Monarch has more issues

Ps: we're all on the same moral ground reading these so we can't really judge or comment on the legality of these things imo.

 

TL;DR:

Money is the root of all problems.

But wait...

Money also solve problems.

Conclusion: It's a never ending cycle~

 

This is why I rather have the translators own their own website
No professional ethics. Saying I don't mean to be rude and calling someone an asshole in the next statement is rude.
Hahaha what a joke.

Best of luck on your new site.
Keep costs low and don't pay for hosting services you don't need

 

You should REALLY check YouTube's terms of service before you post things like this. While YouTube technically doesn't own the videos people post, by putting a video on YouTube you grant to YouTube a non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual license to freely sub-license, re-distribute, re-publish, monetize, and whatever they may want to do with your video. In effect YouTube owns all videos except that they don't have the owner tag. If you state that you had the same relationship with kobatochan.com then you are stating that you have given them a non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual license to do whatever they want with the translation.

 

Oh I see, my bad then. (Was just roughly making an analogy).

 

Even better.

 

Except we didn't have any agreement. Don't just assume that you own my rights. I've never sold you anything, nor would I even want to. I have all the rights to my work as I have translated it all myself. I have no agreement or contract with you, and thus without a written signed consent of me giving your work, I completely own my work and no one else. No one can publish these works without my written consent or permission, and even if someone obtains the licensing rights to the novels that I translate, they can't use my translations and will have to translate from the beginning.

 

Also because we had no agreement for the ownership in both way, what you claim is not entirely correct either because there have been transaction of money for the services as well. But then I won't dig any further because you and I will always say "I'm right, you are wrong". But I have to say you are the one being radical and trying to get everything for yourself here. More than me.

 

You admitted it. If there is no agreement, then the translated works are rightfully mine regardless of the transaction of money. Not sure what you're trying to say, but I think this case is closed.

 

Repeating the same thing again, huh? Because I paid for the service and hosted (without taking account none of us have licence), the ownership would be on both side for the chapters since I have paid. It's only closed on the way you want to see but like said, there's no point because you also want to be the right one.

 

OP, I recommend checking your replies before posting them because you've made some contradicting statements.

 

@kobatochandaisuki Out of curiosity, why did you chose "Legend of the Slave Master and his slaves!!" as the Patreon goal description and supporter of Slave Master as reward tier descriptions? Is it related to a novel that you're translating?

 

It is a secret well-hidden derivating from the age of pharaohs...you shall never know

 

Although Work-for-Hire laws vary a lot between countries, I'm not aware of any law anywhere that would give you any rights to or ownership of his translations in this case (particularly with the lack of any written agreement).
The closest would be if Calvis was a Chinese citizen working on behalf of a Chinese company (as far as I'm aware they make no distinction between employees and independent contractors like several other countries do), even without an explicit agreement the company would have the right to use his translation within the scope of their professional activities. Or that argument would probably stand up in court, at least; I'm not aware of that particular law specifically being applied to translations or literary works, it's generally used for other types of work like software and engineering designs.

Again though, it's all irrelevant without permission from the author/publisher. Having the translations on your site was illegal in the first place, so whether or not you should take them down or keep them up now has nothing at all to do with the law. That would be like a bank robber saying that it's illegal for the getaway driver to keep all the money when the robber did the work. Neither of them has the right to keep the money in the first place; in the eyes of the law, the only correct solution is for neither of them to have the money (nobody hosts the translation).

 

If this was real business, it would be different of course. But Calvis has claimed everything was his and without taking account of what was paid and the rest + has threatened me (you can check that in my thread KCDS Gate). Even without being stipulated, there's things we can guess, ways on how things did go in this community and to have an amiable agreement.
I have to say that the work was hosted and published under our banner. Otherwise, whoever would host it anyway and there could be several hosts, I think. I would also evoke a certain etiquette.

Moreover, I wasn't paid to host. I paid to keep the works, host them and be able to generate a revenue to continue paying new works that I wanted to host.
That's the difference, I'd say.

Btw, if we applied the case in a real legal business, I'm sure the translation would still be owned by the company while the translator was hired and paid to do a job: translating.
A translator would have the ownership if he was doing it independently.

Ultimately, you are right that it may be irrelevant due to none of us having the licence. But Calvis is claiming "this is why I should own everything!" while I tried to have an agreement which was common and had examples as of such.

 

In the US, Calvis would 100% be considered an independent contractor, not an employee.

 

Employee or contractor, hired for a job anyway. When they get paid, it's paid. And not going over it.
When I mean independently, it's as "a non-hired or sollicited work".