Qidian sent DMCA notice to Patreon for all WW translators

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by Chivas, Apr 8, 2018.

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  1. Rumanshi

    Rumanshi 『Demon Lord』『ルマンし』

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    If I recall correctly, they believed a verbal contract had been established. Although they are legally binding, the fact that there is no proof is a problem. Of course, that relationship goes both ways, and QI has acted against WW in the past.

    Please link the post so I can read it. Also, these proceedings should have remained private. QI is in the wrong for that.

    Same as my first comment.

    This is the correct way of proceeding in an argument. Evolving based upon the facts provided.
     
  2. QI_Meh

    QI_Meh Well-Known Member

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    Even WW’s own tls dont even know whats going on lol, rwx doesnt let them read the entire contract he signed (wonder why)

    Probably because he signed a non-disclosure agreement... Occum's razor. Of course, it's not for you or I to decide these things. That's up to a court.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2018
  3. Raobihr

    Raobihr Well-Known Member

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    The post is here: https://forum.novelupdates.com/thre...al-response-to-qidians-libelous-claims.37625/
    It been almost a year but I skimmed it and quoted the paragraph to which I was referring, so I could remember wrong or more information was provided. I just remember, and even now, find this post highly unprofessional compared to Qidian's initial post. If more information was provided or I got a part wrong/misunderstood it please feel free to correct it.

    I do agree that the proceedings should have remained private until they reached a point were an agreement could no longer be met and than release a post on their website to inform their readers, firstly letting WW know before hand.

    Here: https://forum.novelupdates.com/threads/wuxiaworlds-exclusivity-the-contract.62138/
     
  4. Rumanshi

    Rumanshi 『Demon Lord』『ルマンし』

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    "we had an oral commitment from Qidian stating that we can bring new novels onto the site, then bring them under the authorizations umbrella once every quarter. "

    I believe that qidian was accusing them of doing something they didn't agree to at this point. If this oral commitment indeed was made, then a verbal contract had been created. Thus, making the argument void.

    Qidian also makes a libelous statement that the translations on Wuxiaworld belong to them. Legally, the translation belongs to the translator. A contract between Wuxiaworld and Qidian would not grant Qidian ownership on the translations in the first place, as long as the contract between Wuxiaworld and the translator's don't have them sign away their rights. I don't see how this is a 'professional post' in the least when its based upon flawed logic. The matter should have remained private, full stop. Qidian, if they found an issue, should have taken it to court to begin with (edit: Obviously, this is my opinion. IANAL.) Not go public.

    That link to that contract is irrelevant, as the argument was a verbal contract was established, on top of this. The fault lies on wuxiaworld however, for not thinking about how a verbal contract is hard to prove.

    Slandering a competitor is unprofessional, as is not complying to your own contracts. Going public is a flawed response to an argument that doesn't even seem valid.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2018
  5. Raobihr

    Raobihr Well-Known Member

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    I interpret this as meaning that they can continue to bring new novel to the site but by every quarter they have to come to agreement on a contract for the novels that they bring in. I don't see anywhere in their post that saids Qidian gave them rights to translate any of their novels, just that Qidian gave them some leeway to make it easier and more convenient to the readers.

    That's the whole reason why I found WW response to be way more unprofessional than Qidians, I just check their initial post and I still believe It was handled better than WW. Qidian was obvious done with negotiating with WW and decided to go public with the incident so that readers of their novels will understand what's going on, The only unprofessional thing about it was not letting WW know about it in advance, but WW post had way more slander than QI. I agree both were unprofessional but QI was handled way better.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
  6. Rumanshi

    Rumanshi 『Demon Lord』『ルマンし』

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    The wording of the statement linguistically doesn't add up to your interpretation.
    "we can bring new novels onto the site," suggesting permission to post these translations, "hen bring them under the authorizations umbrella once every quarter. ", once they have been added, the contract would be umbrella'd in. The question here is whether that would be legally binding.


    I repeat, you believe that a post making a libelous statement is more professional than a response to it, when Qidian made it public first. I don't see how lies can ever be seen as professional.
     
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  7. Raobihr

    Raobihr Well-Known Member

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    I don't see how it doesn't match my interpretation of it. You are basically suggest WW was given rights to translate any novel by Qidian, and that Qidian can't deny any novel that WW picked which is ridicules and is in no way legally binding.

    I don't see Qidian statement as libelous but I do find WW to be.
     
  8. Rumanshi

    Rumanshi 『Demon Lord』『ルマンし』

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    I wasn't arguing it was or not, I was commenting that that's what the claim was.
    But it is libelous, and I provided you information as to how it is. Don't ignore that part of the post because it doesn't meet your narrative. Qidian said, I quote, " As known to all, Qidian and WuxiaWorld (hereinafter referred to as WW) came to an agreement several months ago to authorize WW to translate 20 novels for Qidian, which means the ownership of the translations will still belong to Qidian.". This is a libelous statement. To begin with, the translations are owned by the translator. I don't believe that a contract would be signed where the translators sign their right away. The contract important there, is the one between Wuxiaworld and the translators. Here is the contract, where the translator retains the right to their translation. Wuxiaworld contract with Qidian gives them the right to publish. Qidian has no legal claim over the translation in this scenario.
     
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  9. Raobihr

    Raobihr Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the link to the translators contract with WW. I still don't believe that statement is libelous until we see the full contract that WW had with Qidian. If in the contract Qidian didn't state that they own the translation than yes that would be a libelous but if they did than it wouldn't be. By this I mean Qidian(if the above happened) would expect the translation to become their property and that WW contract with the translators would match their contract with them, So I don't see how it was libelous unless they didn't state in the contract that they retain ownership of the translations or they new WW contract with the translators didn't match their contract. You said that you don't believe the translators would sign over their rights I don't know much about things in that regard I just assumed that something like that would most likely be in contracts with translators.

    If the above is proved that Qidian didn't put in their contract that they own the translation or that they new that WW contract didn't give them ownership of the translators work, then I do agree that Qidian statement is libelous and It would change my opinion of the whole incident. Sorry for not replying to that part in my last post I am tired and didn't really think about it that much.

    I haven't read the post about the translators right, and I probably won't reply again for a while it is late and I am starting to get tired. I do hope this explains what I meant and that you have a good night. Thanks again for the link most people don't do that.
     
  10. Rumanshi

    Rumanshi 『Demon Lord』『ルマンし』

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    Qidian's contract can't take the translation rights, as it was never wuxiaworlds right to begin with.
     
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  11. lafiel11

    lafiel11 Well-Known Member

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    Oh the ww boy crying wolf drama continues... I find it very entertaining!
    Great move from QI!
    Strike down those illegal translations /posted for profit/!
     
  12. asriu

    asriu fu~ fu~ fu~

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    most of da emoji come from line tho? under fair use for non profit so I don't have problem with plagiarize cuz I have no right on first place~ nor I have sign contract sp O have power to sue you~
    beside it waste of cring cring and precious time to lazy around
     
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  13. millman97

    millman97 Well-Known Member

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    That's literally what you're doing as well, making assumptions.
     
  14. Rumanshi

    Rumanshi 『Demon Lord』『ルマンし』

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    What? Who exactly are you talking about here? How is your post in any way useful?
     
  15. lafiel11

    lafiel11 Well-Known Member

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    What would be a useful reply then?

    Alright, I will try my best to be a pseudo lawyer, like all others, discussing a not fully posted and possibly made up contract by RWX?
    Unnecessary drama asking for attention to provide profit to people who stand with WW.
    Those profiteers are those patreon bastards.
    I'm just happy WW is getting what it deserves.
    Remember, translators own their work, but need official contract /not he said, she said/ agreement to publish and profit from said translated work.
    Seems WW overstepped their bounds somewhere and are getting what they deserve.
     
  16. Rumanshi

    Rumanshi 『Demon Lord』『ルマンし』

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    As i mentioned before, in the end, its all up to court. Not anything anyone of us said. Your belief is as invalid is everyone else's until the problems are resolved.

    (P.S. Being generally aggressive would have people putting less faith in you. Its much better to simply say 'Well, i believe that X is in the right)
     
  17. lafiel11

    lafiel11 Well-Known Member

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    I already know it's up to the court as I said before ,RWX should turn his attention there ,not post on this forum, possibly false information or breaking the NDA .
    And as I said in this thread :
    "Unnecessary drama asking for attention to provide profit to people who stand with WW.
    Those profiteers are those patreon bastards.
    I'm just happy WW is getting what it deserves. ".
    In my mind I already seem them as money-hungry people who want to profit as much as they can until the legal company takes them to court.

    You know ,I like QI because of tons of reasons I said in other similliar "QI - THE BANE OF FREE TL" .
    Honestly ,to other potential readers of this post : Head over to webnovel forum ,check the full content of the 100+ thread post about dmca QI and see why patreon is serious shit that shouldn't be allowed now ,when QI is here.

    P.S. : Why reply to my first post in this thread like this then? To return with a few sentences of " What's the point of duscussing stuff here ?!"
     
  18. Rumanshi

    Rumanshi 『Demon Lord』『ルマンし』

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    Well, not that I care too much. I enjoy arguing and this topic an easy nuffie farm. Ya welcome to believe what ya wanna believe. Just dont expect to be 100% right. Always assume that you are at least 30% wrong.

    Take it as a curious interest in why your belief is the way it is. As well as my hobby.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2018
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  19. GonZ555

    GonZ555 What i want for christmas is you

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    Hmm.. so what did Qi do now?
    :cookie::cookie::cookie::cookie::cookie:

    Pfft! If you don't like drama, then why are you here? specifically in this thread. We all know that haters gonna hate.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    All in all, i'm still on the opinon of antagoizing Qi. And it's NOT because of their business models or the chapter releases.
    It's about their BUSINESS CONDUCT. They use backhanded/underhanded moves multiple times. This is already shown and proven in the past.
     
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  20. Sharudeis

    Sharudeis Semi-narcoleptic

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    While the thread has been rather entertaining so far, I can't help but feel somewhat irked. There's a whole bunch of people saying that the translations themselves are illegal. They are not.
    The act of translation and possession of said derivative work is not illegal--it's the distribution and commercialization of which that makes it so.
    Translating is not illegal.
    Posting of these translations may be, especially if done with the intention to profit off it.
    Reposting someone else's translations is illegal if they have not provided the go ahead, even if these translations were unauthorised in the first place. Why? Because the translations and the original are separate works, and it counts as stealing.

    Whatever else there is, I'll just leave it up to WW and QI to sort it out.
    Though really, how the heck is WW stirring up 'unnecessary drama' and profiteering from it when QI was the one who started this mess in the first place?
     
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