Racism and nationalism in novels.

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Hegao, Apr 17, 2018.

  1. bob3002

    bob3002 Well-Known Member

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    What you have to realize is that it's a common enough occurrence in fiction of every language, not just Asian novels, and in every stage of history. When you read it you have to think about the character espousing those views, and what it means for how you view them. It may be intentional on the author's part to write a flawed character.

    If it's the narrator being racist, or the main character, you have to somewhat judge the author for his/her views. But try to put it in context, even if it sounds unreasonable. Maybe the racism in China against Japan sounds kind of silly in this day and age, but you didn't live through the events of WW2 there and maybe it somewhat accurately reflects the current Chinese feelings. I didn't say those views are reasonable to an outsider, but remember who these novels are written for.

    If you read an older novel, you'll often get views that we consider very offensive nowadays. A lot of 19th century British literature portrays all of Africa and Asia as savages unironically, just like American literature of the time considers slavery as normal. Since the 90s I've noticed a huge uptick in Arabic-speaking Middle-Eastern villains in popular fiction. A lot of racism in literature is just a product of our times.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
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  2. Enigma

    Enigma Follower of Jesus, he's the only way

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    Depends how bad. A few comments i can handle, but it it occurs too often I'll drop the novel.
     
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  3. WhoCaresnovels

    WhoCaresnovels Krill

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    Depends on how it's portrayed, for me. If the MC is evil, I tend to think it's fine for characterization. It's usually when it's really self-righteous, preachy, and doesn't seem in line with the character's personality (especially if it's just a thoughtless remark or aside) I tend to drop the story.
    Though I do this for other real world issues being used crudely by authors, too
     
  4. Zones

    Zones Well-Known Member

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    Haven't run into one bad enough to make me drop it, because it's typically just negative thoughts not actions (which I wouldn't be content to read) but a lot of cns have references that can surely only be Japan, even if the setting isn't earth.
     
  5. HondaFit

    HondaFit Well-Known Member

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    I find it amusing. It's also amusing that people have a problem with it.

    If you only like reading things that make you comfortable, it makes me wonder why you even bother reading at all. Reading is about being exposed to new things and new ideas. I like hearing what the foreigners think. It's why I read foreign novels. To get a different perspective.

    It doesn't hurt my feelings because "Ye Mo" in "Abandoned Son" makes comments about how heavy handed the US is. It's interesting to hear an alternate opinion. It's also why I read foreign sourced news stories because news on the US outlets is slanted and a bit like propaganda. How can you know what's true unless you compare alternate narratives?
     
  6. AHKoT

    AHKoT [FA sect] [2nibyou] [ReverseEpi] [Htrap]

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    No, it isn't easy to just stop reading a novel, especially after you have read over 1000 chapters.
     
  7. SamGoingHam

    SamGoingHam A sports, games, novels fanatic.

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    When I read a novel and come across racism. I read the part, say "fuck you author" and continue.
     
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  8. oblueknighto

    oblueknighto Blue Person

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    I keep reading. Usually these things are only how the main character views things. I think of it as a difference of opinion.
    Unless the main theme of the novel is racism I keep reading.
     
  9. Cenarous

    Cenarous Well-Known Member

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    It really depends, is the racism apart of the character, a societal thing, or something created in the story by the author.
    The first two are not bad as it builds a personality that can be changed or used to tell a more serious story where life isn't all daisy and sunshine.
    On the other hand the the last one is, in my opinion, bad writing as the author creates the character as the stereotype rather than have someone claim the racist remarks and be wrong about it. Even then I still wouldn't drop it for that reason alone. Whether we like it or not (and clearly most dont) racism is apart of our culture and simply running away from the most blatant racism will cause us to not notice the more subtle kind. You must read with an open mind and see if there is any hidden factors behind the racism in the story.
    Nationalism is fine.
     
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  10. Myriadfold

    Myriadfold 『Silkmaid』『Ishhara's Devotee』『Daoist』『WW Vet.』

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    Honestly, I treat it the same way I would if it were occuring in front of me in my daily life. nationalism is just patriotism and I can respect that, but I do have personal issues when it reaches the level of inflicting racism on people because they are too different or come from somewhere else or they are not patriotic enough and thus are not grateful to be born a citizen of their country.

    I don't mind reading about an author who feels pride in their country, even if it distorts facts and the events in favour of their country as part of the plot. It just makes another way to tell a story in their own unique way. I can also understand that wars and other national historical events create great tensions between countries and thus this often leads to people feeling wronged and offended, personally insulted or targeted and causes them to lash out in ways that are rather racist in nature. If it is just lashing out, then so be it, but give the character a chance to reassert themselves in a way that gives credence to their true feelings as something more than simple ignorant bias.

    just stop with all these blatant "we rule the world, and these others are all filthy pagan heathens that do nothing but kill and rape our people and desecrate and defile our religion" BS scenarios. It's stupid, petty, offensive and downright unpalatable.
     
  11. LuminaDawn

    LuminaDawn Well-Known Member

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    Depends. To be honest, if the story has it and it makes sense in the context and story line then, while I would find it in distaste, I would read it. At the same time, if racism takes the form of a fantasy setting then I would also just power through it. But if it goes into that territory when it really doesn't need to and takes it to the extent that nationalism = racism and goes to the extent that its just blatant shitting on others than I get turned off and stop. I.E I really am a SuperStar.

    I don't find anything wrong with nationalism, if an author feels pride in their country and wants to show it then yeah go for it. But there is a line.
     
  12. Meloman

    Meloman My dog is lazier than me

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    Yeah, why don’t they sing praises to their own cultural symbols or attributes (eg art and pizza for Italians) instead of bashing some other people and calling them names along the lines of stupid.

    Though honestly some novels like Evil Emperor’s Wild Consort I drop much faster than I’m really a superstar. Despite EEWC being a more of a fictional novel, the way anyone else beside the FL are portrayed as stupid just annoyed me too much. And some of those secondary characters were so good.

    The superstar guy has strong views on his national protectiveness (despite copying good artworks of Foreigners) but unless provoked he does not run around shouting stupid such and such foreigner.
     
  13. Aethalis

    Aethalis 【High Templar】【Professional Lurker】【Atheist】

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    Well you see, there's a lot of history between Korea, Japan and China. A lot of Korean and Chinese people still hate Japanese people and are very biased against them. This is due to a variety of reasons including but not limited to:
    - The Nanking Massacre
    - Comfort women
    - Annexation of Korea
    - etc (Note, I'm not too good with China-Japan history so I'm mainly focusing on Korea-Japan relations)

    Hence, if I see racism in novels, they are somewhat justified, but not really. Overall, I just tend to go along with it and not really care too much.
     
  14. tsundere_taichou

    tsundere_taichou [Cute Demon Sect]

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    I think it adds realism
     
  15. CodeTime

    CodeTime [Void Emperor of Time]

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    Personally feel that nationalism is good in a novel because it means that the author cares for his country. America is more of a mix of cultures so nationalism is not their strong side, as compared to China which has centuries of history with them. Also, communist governments emphasize nationalism so its rather common that an average Chinese person cares more than an average American.
     
  16. TamaSaga

    TamaSaga Well-Known Member

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    Until the author starts inserting BS powerups and wholesale nerfs into the story to make sure his MC's big mouth doesn't come back to bite him in the ass.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
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  17. justmehere

    justmehere Well-Known Member

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    I read it,

    And I won't make aNY judgements over it, nor would I let it influence me in any way.
    Why? Some people are justified to hate due to historical reasons. My wife told me the Japanese butchered a Chinese village close to extinction, killing all men and raping all women. In the end the native villagers are gone now, the lineage can only survive by mixing with other Chinese races.
    For a community based on culture and lineage, this is pretty devastating. Given the background, if they hate Japanese people I would just let them be and let time heal the wounds. (the kids are adjusting, not the parents) telling them to forget things that happened will just open up old wounds.

    I know this is stupid, coz killings would happen even on non interracial conflicts, take the Chinese scholar massacre.
    In the end though, I know racism only exist when 2 powerful people have their own agendas and they have to influence other people to their causes.

    I just wish other people can see through this bullshid.
     
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  18. Lolistalker

    Lolistalker Well-Known Member

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    I think it is but another element in a story, if the author is aware and use it correctly as a mean to deliver their story then it is a good thing, but in reality the author is often not aware of his or her shortcoming which make something we consider as "racist" to be normal or natural to him or her and that is when it will be a negative thing, and it applies to not only this particular subject
     
  19. zarvi

    zarvi Ojisan

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    there is a difference with a story about discrimination and a story that discriminates, if its the former I would be fine
    and glorification of one's culture is fine too, like japanese food, samurai, etc. I can actually learn something from those.
    if its a story discriminates, an author's fantasy to wank himself off. I won't ride that fantasy of his.
     
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  20. Yukkuri Oniisan

    Yukkuri Oniisan 『Procrastinator Archwizard Translator and Writer』

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    I watch American movies since I am still a child.
    So I am already numb to blatant nationalism and racism.

    After all, it's all about how you see things.