Question How come novel translators commonly use patron?

Okay so I know how my question sounds, but I’ve been wondering about this for awhile now. And do realize that I truly don’t mean any harm with this question, I’m truly just curious about this. How come it’s common practice for translators to keep their translations on a time delay within patron? I totally understand that translators need money not only to live, but to also support their translation work as maintaining a site costs money as well as buying the actual material to translate. The same thing applies to manga translators, but the biggest difference is that the community (that I’ve seen) shuns groups that keeps their releases under a time delay, unlike the novel community which seems to accept this as common place. Of course, by time delay I mean when a translator works on a chapter, finishes the chapter, but makes it so that if you want to read his work you need to pay him via patron or wait a good period of time. One good example of this is Lord Obsidian. I love that person’s work, they are an excellent translator and they have an amazing site! No complaints there. But I do find it problematic that they keep the majority of their releases behind a patron pay wall until a later date. When I last look at their patron, they had a high roller section where Lord Obsidian was saying that if you payed him a good amount of money, you could read a massive amount of chapters that they’ve translated of the Son-con series. But if you don’t pay them, then you’ll be stuck waiting for months. Again though, I love the work that Lord Obsidian does, and they are trying to be the actual translator for the author of Son-con (last I saw) so it would make sense that this should be a paying gig.

So here’s my question, summarized since it did drag on for quite a bit. Why are the translators that use this time delay system so prevalent and regard as commonplace to the community? I understand that they need the money, but if we look at manga translation groups, they only accept donations or the raws of whatever series they are going to translate. Does it just cost more to host a website dedicated to novels? Do these translators pitch in to help maintain NovelUpdates? How come they are regarded as such a common occurrence? Thanks for the information in advance!

 

Probably a mix of less people willing to put in the time to TL a novel with far more characters versus a manga and the community having the "its free so any criticism is wrong" mentality.

 

I am guessing that you are in the camp that earning money makes you less hardcore.
You have obviously already made your mind and given your judgement.
#ModernSlavery exists.

A more apt title to your thread : Why do translators need money.
You should rename your thread that

 

Cuz its easy to use and is a "trusted" 3rd party site/entity who probably wont abuse your credit card info.

Basically the PayPal of "Donations"

 

Personally I think it's good for a translator to have chapters in stock besides the patron paywall is always optional, but the thing is, is that it's normally good to have one chapter a day even more is fantastic, but you gotta remember translating isn't easy, alot of people do it as a job now of course so they'll release chapters daily usually but they aren't just gonna give out the entire novel for free all at once, they're running a business and plus it makes them some dough on the side, aside from that it's great to chapter stock piles to reward readers,in case your sick, away etc, and you can take a break, translators normally work a certain amount alot of the time pumping out a chapter a day and each of them has their own lives, so they can't afford to translate all day unless it's a job however why not put some extra time in and make some dough on the side for particularly feisty readers who are willing to pay for faster releases and if it's a business ,like qidian, which novel is most popular usually affects them, as they most likely get something out of it long story short they have chapters in stock for a multitude of reason

 

Manga is easier to translate, one page rarely have very long conversation and the challenge is how to do cleaner, typesetting, redrawer etc which is consume time and usually done by group (so they can share the burden)
While novel you can see there is whole page of text and it is not just one page (usually done by 1 person and so the stress and burden) and editor usually work after the translation is done, so no help here
And you can see novel translator need some coffee to keep them fresh

 

Because some TLs consider this to be their serious profession, rather than just a hobby. And as such, earning more is better. And this is just one way of earning more.

 

not that common. only translators worth reading do this because as you said. time is money. these are people who either work jobs and do this in their free time (and even just a single chapter is no easy feat) or they have reduced genuine work hours in order to release more chapters.

your question and explanation just reeks of "leecher can't understand why he can't have premium goods free of charge".

also for your information, novelupdates is independent, so why bother asking if patron translators are supposed to support it? what about non-patron translators, they get the benefits of traffic too, are they exempt because they don;t use patron yet still have a site?

for the technical side, running websites cost varying amounts of money, the URL is the cheapest bit, while the hosting gets more expensive the more content you need to host and the greater the traffic and bandwidth you need to support. NOT CHEAP, NOT EASY TO RUN, NOT EASY TO FIX AND KEEP RUNNING.


time delay is prevalent in every industry. you want to buy the next installment to a book series? well you have to wait. you want to watch the next episode to your favourite show? you have to wait once more. you want to buy the next game in a series? still more waiting. the delay is necessary because people are only human, mistakes are made and time is needed to fix them, people get ill and need time to recover. having a stockpile means they as translators can afford to tend for their health and STILL RELEASE ON SCHEDULE for leechers alike to enjoy free of cost. yes patron payers get early access, they get "early-access" to "unreleased content still subject to change and revision", like some of those new hit titles appearing on steam every other day.

some manga groups do as you say, others do it entirely free of charge BECAUSE THEY WANT TO, NOT BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO. raws do cost, the time needed does cost and there is even a cost in the emotional abuse hurled at them for not being faster with their releases, for not cleaning and redrawing the art perfectly, not making a mistake in the translation or leaving in a typo.

it is frowned upon to tell people you have stockpiled hundreds of already translated chapters and only release them at a rate convenient to the state of your own wallet. most groups however ARE NOT like that, they stockpile a tops of 30 chapters for series that are over 1000-2000 chapters in length, a very particular genre of chinese fiction we are all familiar with. other groups translate novels that are merely tens of chapters long. are you saying they should not delay that 1 or 2 chapters because the series is so short and you can't wait?

you are not FORCED to buy into patreon, if you want to show support you can simply donate all the same. but don't complain about being so many chapters behind because you don't want to be out of pocket. don't assume your time is anymore valuable that the time and effort the translators put into their work.

DO YOU KNOW just how much it costs to have an official translation done for a passage of text? try looking it up, find an official company and see what they charge you for a piece the length of your favourite novels, see the difference in what the translator accept as a donation and what the company asks for from you alone.

 

Many translators with 100+chap translations have patreon or atleast a donation bar. It is just that some keep it for display while some simply provide links. The number of texts in novel is far greater than that of manga/hwa and the release rates tend to be higher, which is equivalent to harsh time-table with limited staff(2-3hrs for a single chap and people expect higher rate of release. People without patreon or not contracted to any sites generally have lower releases and you can see the comments his/her translation receives) More importantly, not all tranlsations are fan translation

 

Some translators makes more money than the author lol.

 

Probably because novel translator translate A LOT MORE than manga translator.

 

*one random day walking the streets*

random person: "here, please have a free napkin from our store."

OP: "Oh, thanks. Wait, I see you have a whole box of them, why aren't you giving me all of those as well?!"

 

And unlike in manga, the translator is usually far behind the current raws of whatever novel they're translating.

Even if you translate manga fast, you can't translate faster if there's nothing to translate

 

In my opinion, this sums up the current translation situation pretty well.

you do know that manga translation scene is pretty much screwed up by aggregators, right? So the manga translation group have to release a chapter faster when the raw is already come out as to keep the reader at the site. Most of manga readers don't even visit the original translation group's site at all even. So the original group have to release the chapter on time or else the readers will pressure scream at them and only to have their chapter pirated by aggregators in a few minutes after the release.

 

I'll be polite and not bite.

for community, i think it's because the manga scene came in before the novel scene. patreon and the like weren't as prevalent or used back then. in fact i think patreon only came about in the past few years, so the vehicle for payment only came about recently. yes there was paypal but that just felt declase. patreon on the other hand has a nice bespoke almost feel to it. the atmosphere changed and paying for faster content became more acceptable. just look at the popularity of platforms like gofundme. people chipping in for things they support is much more mainstream because there are more venues to support it.

You're still getting the translations. they're just giving preference to those that pay. and translators don't have anything to do with nu's maintenance. nu supports itself.

 

even worse is that oh so often there are things you cannot be sure you translated correctly because the context needed to explain them has yet to be given or is maaaany chapters into the future.

 

some are doing this as their full-time jobs so they really need that patreon.
I don't know what the big problem is as they still have a regular release date, like what OP, you have mentioned.
they are asking those who can pay or support them so they can do this full-time.
like what most of the people said above me. they need the stockpile in case of unforeseen events.

I am not a translator but a free reader, I remember the times when translations would only update once a week and people are really grateful for that. I am one of those people.

 

If you don't like it enough to pay for it, then don't. Just forget about the patreon chapters. I'm happy to have a way to show my appreciation, and to hope that they continue translating for a long, long time.

 

I think I know what you're asking, haha.

Imho, the reason why novel patreon is more prevalent than manga is the direct opposite of what @Harry said: It's because translating novel is easier than manga.

I don't mean the translating skills though.

Rather, the time and manpower consumed to produce a quality chapter of manga (or an episode of anime) are multiple times higher than novels. That means, translating novel is much more manageable for a lone hobbyist, and can be churned out on regular basis in speedier releases, even. Just to take a crazy example, I think I've read 3 chapters of Overgeared per day for months before it's slowing down, and there are many more titles like that. That regularity and speed helps building a loyal fanbase willing to pay for more chapters. Aggregator sites are fast, but the translator is fast too, so there's a faster value return for the money you spend on those bonus chapters.

Moreover, NU has a high contribution in making the database far easier to access directly to the creators, building a (mostly) appreciative environment. Manga world also has baka-updates, but let's be honest here, the site is so terribly outdated and it's not catered for the newest additions of Chinese/Korean webcomic fantranslation that pop out every so often nowadays. In the novel scene, NU keeps being that niche "Asian" market oriented while being wide enough to cover not only Japanese, but CN/KR/Thai and other sources.

Edit: I just took a look at LordObsidian.

Your reasoning of the translator having many, many chapters behind paywall will only shy away a few people, I think. The rest of the nonpayers won't be interested in being a patron in the first place, but the number of paywalled chapters doesn't matter in the bigger scheme.

Why? Because he still releases daily chapters. Even if you're a happy camper with no moolah to spend, you still get your regular fix of that title instead of having them sitting behind the paywall forever. It doesn't feel like waiting if you have trickles to sate your thirst.

CN webnovels have thousands of chapters per title and you know you'll get to see that "The End" before you take a step to your grave. For Japanese manga? Well, your best shot is to know Japanese enough to read the raws on your own, or else you're going to have to wait for a long, long, long time. (Or *cough*shamelessplug*cough* commission someone else to translate for you.)

 

What? No, I thought I made it pretty clear that translators need a way to make money as well which is beneficial to everyone since if they can keep translating then I can keep enjoying what they translate. I was just curious as to why some translators use a time delay to release their chapters, and what the community thinks of this type of action. What I’m trying to do is learn about their reasons and their thoughts on the matter.

I’m afraid I don’t quite understand what you’re talking about here, I’d love it if you could elaborate a bit more. I totally understand that translating a novel is incredibly difficult work, but what does a “it’s free so any criticism is wrong” mentality have to do with it, and more importantly what exactly does that mentality entail?

That would make a ton of sense, and with patron then the translator can get a monthly donation instead of a one time payment, which is probably a bit more desired.

Oh yeah, I would love a chapter a day of my favorite novels, but that’s compltely unrealistic to expect as it is definitely difficult to translate a novel. That’s kinda what I was thinking that some translators would do, keeping chapters in stock I mean, that way they can take a vacation or get sick or anything like it and still keep with a solid release schedule. So in a way, the paywall concept is pretty useful, except when someone pays the highest tier and THEN the translator gets sick. But yeah, a stockpile of translated chapters is useful, I wouldn’t doubt that for a second. It just seems like it isn’t used that way by the translators that have a paywall system, although I could be mistaken as I haven’t heard of them getting sick and not releasing chapters. And I could’ve also missed the chapters they did/didn’t release, so I wouldn’t be able to tell you for certain that it is used in that manner or not.

That’s definitely true, like Lord Obsidian who does this as their job. They’ve (from last I saw) were even working with the authors permission to translate their novels which is great.

I’m terribly sorry if this came off as a rude question and as if it was from someone who just wants free stuff, that was definitely not my intent. I was just curious about what the community thinks about it and why the translators were doing that as I was under the impression that most translators did this as a hobby or a side gig, where they weren’t counting on the money they make from translating as if it was life and death. Translating definitely takes a lot of time and money, I completely understand that. I’ve seen what some people charge to translate something, and the prices can be astronomical, so that I am able to read a novel for nothing is incredibly wonderful and something that I’m extremely grateful for. I’m definitely not forced into it, as that would be awful. Did I say something along those lines in my question?? If so, I deeply apologize.
Also, I completely agree with stockpiling translated chapters, and even more so with the paywall as much as it frustrates me at times. When I hit the end of a released series and it has the familiar wall of text directing me to patreon, I do get a bit flustered, but I competely understand why they have it set up that way. So no matter my personal feelings I would never tell someone not to do this method as it is a really great way to make money while translating. Aaaaannndd it can help keep the translators releases on a scheduled release pattern which is incredibly nice and useful. And yes, there are a good number of manga translation groups that translate for free because they want to, and not because they have to. But the community (from what I’ve seen) frowns upon the people that try to make money from translating manga, which is not true for people translating novels even though they both require a vast amount of work and effort to translate. Which, to bring it back around, is why I was even asking this question. Why does the novel community not frown upon this action while the manga community does when it is a very reasonable thing to do for either type of group.
Oh, as a P.S., I was just curious as to where the money went, as I was still (until I posted this thread) unaware that some groups truly treated translating as a business. I understood that the cost went to maintaining their site, which can be insanely expensive for a number of reasons, especially so if you have a popular novel on your hands. I thought that maybe some of the costs to run NU can from some of the translators, or something like that as I’m sure running NU is a pricey venture what with its forum side as well as it’s database side. The amount of traffic this site gets is by no means small I would imagine.
P.S.S. I just wanted to clarify that by frustrated I meant not throwing my fist in the air shouting “Traaaaaaaannnssslllaaaatttooooorrrsss!!!!”, but rather like “if you were waking down the street looking at your phone and walk straight into a lamppost. You’d be frustrated, sure, and then you’d look up and realize that it’s just a lamppost and there’s nothing you can do about it so you forget any frustration you had to running directly into it and just move on with your life” type of frustration.

I didn’t know that some of the groups translating on here are actually doing it strictly as a business! I understood that that was going on in the novel translation community, but I hadn’t heard explicit things such as some not being fan translations. Thank you for the information by the way, as that makes a ton of sense, especially when a series has a thousand chapters and the translator has only been able to trudge through a hundred or so, they definitely deserve to be paid for their time and effort.

That could easily be the case, as a translator can reach more people due to it being in English rather than Chinese/Japanese/Korean. And if a popular translation group picks up an unknown novel series then the translator will definitely earn more than the author in that case.

That also makes a ton of sense. A novel can have upwards of two thousand characters, while if a manga has that many then that would be a crazy long chapter.

I totally don’t agree with that though, I mean come on, where’s the thank you for the first napkin??? Obviously that guy in your example has no manners or tact.

That’s an insanely good point you make there!! Like the overlord manga, it’s being held back (I assume) by the release of the actual series in Japan, while the novel is released by volume so there is more to translate and work with. That’s a super interesting point!

I do agree with you that DaoFox sums up some of the questions I had about translating quite nicely! Also, I didn’t realize that the manga community was pressuring the translators as much as they were. I know that they pressure them an insane amount, which is why most manga translations groups have a discord channel dedicated to release talks, but I didn’t think that it was that bad. I do know about the plague of aggregators sites, which is just tragic. The only thing I wish could be changed is that the site where manga translators post their translations, like bato (which is back up, but I don’t know if it’s just an aggregator site now) and mangadex would implement a vertical scrolling feature, which I’m sure would help boost their popularity and usage in my opinion.

Thank you for being so polite in your answer, I didn’t realize that this question would run so many people the wrong way....☹️ Which was definitely not my intent. Anyway, I think that patreon is a wonderful platform to get money for your project, especially since it’s a platform that allows you to easily set up a monthly payment system. So that translators are able to use this platform to increase their profit is wonderful! I love the ability to support the groups that translate my favorite series! Before I asked this question, I didn’t know that NU was independent. Do you perhaps know how they are able to maintain their site, as I don’t even see a place to donate to for NU, which is why I thought that it was a place that the community supported rather than being self supported.

I am a new reader (well, only a few months on here at least), so I’m especially grateful for the current way things are within NU and the way translators are working now! If I can read a chapter of my favorite series once a week I’ll be happy, but if I can read it more frequently I’ll be even happier, or if I can read it once a week (with a steady, unfaltering release schedule) I’ll be just as happy! No need to panic when they miss their usual release date thinking that they might’ve dropped that series. I personally think that patreon is a great way to support a creator, especially since it’s such a wonderfully easy to use platform.

Oh yeah, I completely understand that, I was just curious about it that’s all. I completely believe that translators should be able to be paid for their blood, sweat, and tears that come from translating novels, but again I was just wondering what the difference is between the manga translators and the novel translators.

Wow, that was exactly what I needed to know, thank you!!! That perfectly answers my questions about translating novels and manga!!! I completely agree with you that translating manga cannot be done alone, at least not without a ton of time and effort spent on it. Translating a manga is almost like working on a factory line, where the translators passes the script to the proofreader who then passes that along to the typesetter who got the cleaned pages from the cleaner and then it’s all price together with a redrawer and boom you have a completely translated manga chapter. Whereas with a novel it can be done by one person, (I keep using this translator but they check so many boxes for me I guess haha) like Lord Obsidian as I believe they translate both Son-con and the other series they do mostly by themselves as it is their job. That they have so many chapters behind a paywall is necessary, I completely agree with the other posters here are it let’s Lord Obsidian and other translators like them have a little breathing room at times. So I’m the end, the paywall doesn’t matter half as much as it could, like in a truly pay2win game where certain missions can only be completed by shelling out real dough. That little trickle that you mentioned definitely goes a really long way for the readers. Oh man yeah, CN novels are absolutely massive, with most of them (from what I’ve seen) being at least a thousand chapters long at this moment. And not tiny chapters mind you, but decently sized chapters. None of that Tomo-chan stuff where it has 800 chapters but each chapter is only a page long. I also completely agree with you that NU is an amazing site, and I absolutely adore it for its user friendly interface as well as it’s update speed, by that I mean I know exactly when the translators of my favorite novels post new chapters on their website. I also really love the fact that it’s not an aggregator and that the links to the chapters directly send you to the translators website, although I have had problems in the past with the translator going under and removing their site hence invailidaring the link, but that’s in the minority.
I just wanted to say again, that you really understood my question and I really wanted to thank you again for helping me understand this subject! I was really bummed that it seemed like I had worded my question extremely poorly and that I had offended such a wonderful community with a question that I had deemed harmless. I just wanted to put in enough information so that I could clarify my question to the best of my abilities. Clearly, I’m not an experienced writer though, lol.



Thank you everyone for your input by the way, I really liked reading some of your responses that helped me learn about the situation of translating novels!! Also, there was a pretty funny comment stuck in there DaoFox where they did a whole skit, which I found to be pretty funny, even if it was aimed at me. So thank you everyone!