Discussion Patriotism (Mild Nationalism)

Foolish and privileged. The 12million illegal and 37 million legal immigrants that have chosen the US over their previous countries would probably slap you silly. Except statistics have proven repeatedly that immigrants - legal and non - commit less crime than natural-born citizens in the US.

You CAN choose your country and religion, your eye color or hair color (or gender) is a biiiit different.

I AM from the United States - however disunited we may be right now - and I'm ashamed of our politicians and corporate execs. I'd like to apologize to much of the rest of the world about our current situation. I am seriously considering Canada.

 

..... ......... ........ 'MURICAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm Mexican, i live in the border with the US wich i kindly call myself "Gringolandia", i do travel there (Since its like...yah know 30 mins away from home so why the heck i wouldn't?)

And i can say the next about nationalism...

I...don't hate the US i find em funny....


I....don't really love mexico, i also find em funny..........

so...for me Nationalism is more kinda BS, like....you do need to say "MAH CONTRY IS DA BEST!" ?

why?

there isn't really a phsyicall border most of the time, unless there is a fricking river dividing the land...and most of the time such river doesn't go all the way over the political border, like half the time is in one side, half in another and the rest of the time fricking river goes underground

if only we could all unite like in this trailer of certain dlc

Apocalypse - Stellaris


leaving aside that...

yah...i don't really get nationalism, don't see the point and don't care enough to make a political statement....i just saw the video cuz reasons (Do love the game) and am using all the chances to spam the trailer all around the net

 

you are wrong, it IS sheer dumb luck, just as it is luck when you are born into a rich and happy family. You have no control over it and can't influence it, it is luck
it is not luck, however, that a country is a good country, that is based on it's citizens efforts, and also what you wanted to say, I assume.
but now we are here discussing ountries, when we have most definitely not made any impact on them, so we also shouldn't take pride in livin in them, as anyone who moved into the country and lived there for a time, would also be able to call him/herself a citizen of that country. Fundamentally, you can be proud of two things:
1. things you accomplished, or were part of (example: your degree, your success, money, etc)
2. things that you were not involved with at all, and only feel proud for, (such as the success of a friend, a country, a football team, of humanity colonising another planet, etc)
the first type is totally justified and on a certain level also to be encouraged, but you have to take care not to mistake the second type for the first.
feeling proud of your country is just straight up retarded, but feeling proud of what you and your fellow citizen achieved is totally fine.
feeling proud of the actions of your country you had nothing to do with is a bit dumb, but feeling proud for the country, for what it achieved is fine
think this through, then answer and point things out, if you want to
ps: I didn't read the post to which you answered

 

Because it's a place you were born and raised in and because you call it home, you need to have pride in it? or you need to have pride in it to call it home? dafuq does pride mean to you? I feel like we have completely definitions of the word here. Not to mention different values on the feeling of pride. Heck, I can't even think of the last time I've really cared about a personal achievement. Then again, those are personal differences I suppose...

And speaking of words and definitions, @Wujigege has a point. There ARE differences between patriotism, nationalism, and jingoism. I assume we actually mean patriotism, which is the least extreme of the three. Speaking in a broader sense, imo, patriotism is a crutch countries need when they're down low and need to leverage something to help themselves up. If countries still rely too heavily on patriotism long after having used it to get up, they simply aren't developing muscles to move on without it, thus halting progress.

Anyways, before I get too off topic, back to the prompt I guess. I'm American. Was born here, live here almost all my life. I've visited other places, but aside from the few years as a baby I was in Korea with my grandparents, I haven't spent more than a month at any one time outside the states. As I've mentioned before, I hardly have any sense of pride to begin with, so I don't particularly feel any regarding my country. America is both worse and better than others think it is. I mean, country differences in general aren't really something you can put on a scale to compare every aspect with anyways.

In terms of culture and philosophy, what I appreciate the most around here is probably the focus on individuals. I am disgusted by the idea of a society focused more around groups than individuals because there is so much more judgement and social bullshit pressure in that type of society. There is something profoundly liberating in most people not giving a shit what you do or who you are as long as you are abiding by social norms.

However, there are also remnants of culture and philosophy from the past that I don't enjoy the effects of. One of the things I feel is rather silly is the relative sexual repression of Americans. I think this originated from the Puritans, who were socially austere, but were known to be super kinky freaks in private. Imo, it doesn't make growing up here any easier with such conflicting messages about sexuality bouncing around.

Anyways, I could probably write a book or two about this overall, but in the interest of brevity, I'll end the snippet of my thoughts here. Overall, worse and better than seems from the outside, and definitely more complex than it seems as well. Would I live anywhere else? I dunno, don't really know another country's customs and norms well enough. Do I like it enough here? yea. Pride? not really.

 

Ah that was the word i was looking for.

 

Better yet remove ism and simply title it Being A Patriot

 

What? No that's completely different.

 

Ah but it would deter people from the Asian countries, Pacific Islands and everywhere else not using English as their primary language.

 

We fucking do not, eh

 

You are naive. Racism is a shallow definition & the way you use it proof that you have no real idea about it.

My grandmother was a roaba/slujnica... which is like a slave/servant. She was given away at the age of 10 because her family could no longer survive, they had to eat boiled water with a spoon of flour. I remember her telling me how she had to carry a sack of flour that weighted the same weight as her up hills... she thought that the day would never end or be infinite.
My parents moved to Ireland, as you can imagine... we came from a rather poor background. We only got better after my father went to Germany few times, he was even in Berlin when the wall fell... except my mother was pregnant when my father tried to bring us to Germany legally through a programme but eventually, our place that was meant to be was Ireland.

As you can guess, in primary school... I was the only foreigner. Every single day I would be in fights, I would sit in a corner scared because I did not know the language & it was a new environment when it was break time outside in the yard... kids would say stuff or some would slap me because I was isolated, I would fight back. So, nearly every single day I would get into fights... some were racist, they seen me as different from them but over time, the fights became something because they wanted to challenge me... it was no longer about just racism. I can tell you countless stories about racism, another memorable one was in secondary school (high school).. where one guy was bullying my best friend who was from Somalia, my other friends were trying to convince me to leave him alone, while discussing with my friends... he sucker punches me out of nowhere... I never got to retaliate because the guy who does maintaince stopped us. We go to the principal's office & the guy who sucker punches me starts crying... I was shocked, nothing happened to him, why is he crying? I was told to leave & they only listened to his side of the story... I was outside in a hall, isolated & the vice-principal, a woman walks by & says you really are annoying, your voice is irritating. I was shocked.
Another one was when my mum was working as a cleaner in a school... she had to do a job that basically took 8 hours to do with two people in 3 hours.. she was paid crap because she was a migrant... often, as a honor to my mum... I would go help out. This was a brand new school where the principal who hired my mum was a progressive, independent woman & feminist. So, a school opening was made... a local politician (called a TD here), which we knew & my mum knew her well... my mum always praised her because her previous job where she worked at a gym, she would greet my mum. On the day of the official school opening, we were invited as guests & so was all the staff... my mother was humble, so she seen there was a need to help to serve people. I gave out to my mum saying she was not invited or paid to work here but she just wanted to help. So, she helped but guess what happened? She was treated as a servant... it was like for them, my mum was part of nature, it was natural to treat her as as servant... I stood there shocked. Even the politician that my mum knew for years, ignored my mum the whole day... she never acknowledged her existence... everyone treated her as a servant. That's when I realized that racism is a simple definition but it easier to deal with those who hate you or are angry at your in a form of racism or fear but it is worse when they do not see you as their equal, when it is natural for you to be below them... to be a lower being.

Racism is a shallow definition, I will repeat that.
It is bad when they hate you, have anger or fear you... that means that they still somewhat relate to you or can view you as a equal but when they see you as no threat or think you actions, thoughts or words have no value, neither do your feelings.
As a migrant, I studied racism... I seen racism from one neighbourhood to another, there was discrimination, hate, competition & prejudices/stereotypes from one street to another. I seen in Romania, from one town to another... they have songs which they make fun of others from other towns, they stereotype them & laugh at them. It is not just about race, it is about how one relates to another & people seeing differences often scares them or they create a defense mechanism to avoid danger, the same way animals are wary of anything differently... but growing up, I seen a lot of people accepting me & a lot who were afraid of me accepted me. In fact, my family was helped by amazing people who accepted us, I grew up with sleep overs & had an amazing childhood in a different country & environment, I grew up attached to it. So, I am a Irish nationalist... I take pride on the Irish identity that accepted us & gave us a better life.

I can talk a lot about this but I will end this here. As I was interested & had issues as most Romanians did not see me as Romanian, while some did... some Irish did not see me neither Irish, while most did (as I grew up with them. I paid attention & thought a lot about it.
Then I came to know about pogroms... I watched images of an old man with his arm broken, with his arms like a broken stick held up... he was screaming "what's wrong with you"... imagine being him or being the mob who attacked him with poles... imagine the people you know for years, your neighbour for years, someone you worked with... all of them suddenly attacking you with such indifference or imagine having that indifference to someone, not being able to relate or connect with that person, feeling no sympathy or empathy... that's truly dangerous. We seen that from muslims to other muslims... we seen that from one sect to another, we seen the catholic church do that in the past too. This issue is not about just race.
Hitler gave the best example, his mentality is shockingly disturbing. Most people have a instinctual fear or disgust of something... of some insect or snake or something... a cockroach or a spider. Hitler had that instinctual disgust for jews or those that are not white. This is even worse than having empathy or being indifferent... it is the same as viewing others as disgusting life-forms. We kill insects by instinct & we rarely consider or take time to think... "should I have done that?". Hitler was like & he was preaching this... he seen killing & torturing jews the same way as cleansing pests from his country. That's some disturbing stuff... imagine having that instinctual disgust for others?
I hate people who call others racist or call others nazis or racist... especially when you say that about Trump & his supporters. You are making light of a dangerous mentality... it is a shallow definition & a lazy way of thinking. If most people cared for racism, they would not label anyone as a nazi or hitler easily... even the white supremacists of modern days are not as bad as hitler or nazis in my opinion. (well, I do not care & pay attention to what they think or feel... i feel they are irrelevant).
I hope people would really take time to think some things through. Trump is a idiot, has a big ego & has a massive mouth that leads only to trouble but I do not think of him racist. Same for most of his supporters... in fact, I seen racism against Trump supporters...

Well, I hope you will read this. I am sick of divisive or lazy stuff. Think things through... people can change & we should not dehumanize others, if we dehumanize others... are not not the same as nazis or will we not become them eventually?

 

Well you also have to deal with British and American English lol. That was a doozie for me as I studied British English and then went to the U.S. lol
Hopefully they consume enough TV Shows to get you lol

 

Then why answer when you did not read it?

I am not going to reply to you, you are just proving my point at how ignorant & lazy you are. I doubt it takes 2-3min to read what I wrote. Why reply when you have no clue what I wrote? You are ignorant & your ignorance is proven by your laziness.
If you are lazy, just shut up & stop trying to think you are smart. Just say you are lazy, did not read... no need to further embarrass yourself.

 

Philippine!!! well our country is rich in natural resource...
Meh probably half of them is extracted by other country, our political history Is quite young and the current market price is not appropriate to common salary.
When thinking economic I think can a certain years ago where the pesos and dollar value is close but his a dictator they say that's why its and make anyone frown anyone try to understand the current situation here meh...

 

Ah i dont mind it, i was just trying to get people to either bash on their own countries or show us the beauty of them. The thread derailed lolol.

 

Fair point but I was agreeing with you. Racism is too blanket a definition, tribalism I'd

 

Blessed does not mean luck.
It means that someone worked, sacrificed & gave the opportunity to live in a great country. Your predecessors are the ones who mad your country good... you are blessed because of the values they established. It is not luck, saying it is luck is basically saying those values & their efforts, their sacrifices meant nothing. Also, even tragedies are being degraded if you say luck... for example, the civil rights movement, the abolishment of slavery... is not about luck, those were tragedies that people faced & have risen above that. Saying that is luck is pure stupid... the big bang is luck too, everything is luck.

 

and here you perfectly prove everything you just accused me of on yourself
I wrote, that I didn't read the post to which you answered, I obviously read yours, or I wouldn't answer to it. naturally you also ignored completely what I wrote, especially the part where I told you to think about it. You just read one part of a sentence, then decided, oh shit, maybe he is dumber than me and did this! then you proceeded to insult me with untrue accusations, which you can neither prove nor explain logically, why it should be like what you said. You seem to either be dumb, emotionally unstable, or just lack a few nights' sleep.
I'll just return to you your own words: just shut up and stop trying to think you are smart. there is no need to further embarrass yourself.
You have already completely proven yourself to be a member of NUF that is not worthy of any of my time to me, thus, I will kindly block you. There are already enough idiots in real life, no need to communicate with more online. Bye

 

In this century indeed were all blessed , but those "blessings" are for everyone. There are in almost every country laws against slavery, laws for civil rights, laws for equality of genders, laws for animal protection etc. but my question is are all of this applied the same in every country? There is crime, there are corrupted goverments (wich for me is even worse thing in a country, its like cancer that gives birth to crime and mafia). let me a give a tiny example: public hospitals in my country are corrupted, if u dont pay the nurse she wont give a damn about patient. doctors are useless,rooms and bathrooms are very dirty...you have to buy pills on the nearest pharmacy (run perhaps from the wife of one of docs there) etc. Now lets see if there are public hospitals on this conditions ,lets say in germany.

 

No, you could drink poison not because of luck. You could drink poison because the actions of disgusting people... that's why I said, you are blessed that your predecessors are more good than bad but you can be cursed if your predecessors are disgustings.

It is not luck, rather it is called abuse. It is reality, calling it luck is downplaying the efforts of others or the disgusting actions of others.
The same way the me now would be abusing the me of the past if I do not put effort into bettering myself & preparing myself for the future.

We, of the now must make sure that those in the future can have a better future. It is our duty of living... for thousands of years, there are those who have tried to create a better world for those who came after them. They were heroes & changed the world.

You talk about Trump but I do not support Trump & neither am I against him. I do not know if I can consider him a idiot, in a way I can... not because of what he is doing but rather, he has a big mouth & I feel those who talk too much are idiots because, the more you talk, the more likely you are going to say stupid stuff. A reality star who talks a lot, became famous because of his stupid mouth... is rahter idiotic but some of the things he does are quite good.

Though, I feel you are naive. You talk about Trump but Trump with his big mouth gives away his idiocy... he is blunt & shows his plans. The truly dangerous ones are those that can hide what their goal is, what they want. Obama for example, his drones killed countless children, he made a deals with countries that destroyed Yemen.
All politicians are the same. Since Romans & even before that... people used scapegoats to divert attention from their flaws or real issues. Romans used the colliseums... Hitler used the jews, communism used "inequality". Politicians continuously for thousands of years pointed fingers at others to make themselves look good or feel good... they degrade others to look all saintly & saviours to their supporters. Telling others what to do, when they themselves would not do it or telling others what not to do when themselves would do it.
Politicians spend 90% of the time pointing fingers at others or at other issues... Trump won because he did that better than Hillary, also Hillary was a easy target. Hillary was the second runner up because she degraded others.. for example, Bernie...
Obama acts like a sports celebrity or a persona that is all cool... not all too different that those celebrities that only care about attention & their image. Yet, people are surprised when Obama supporters voted for Trump... weren't they already supporting someone with a persona of a celebrity?

Politicians & celebrities are modern day pharisees... the propaganda is real.

The only thing I like about Trump is how he slams the media. The media has become the nobles elites who do not want to lose power, control & influence... they do not want to lose profit. So, anyone that does not fit their profit or agenda or anyone who criticizes them, they haunt & hunt them... Elon musk is a recent example. Their competition too, for example individual content creators...
Media companies are like any company, they have their target audience.. so they make a product that suits their audience. Recent studies have shown that people pay attention to negative stuff more... they also remember it more easily.(probably because as a safety precaution, we remember negative stuff to avoid doing that in the future). Anyways, the media spin their narrative, give bias information to gain attention & to suit their target consumers... fox has their, cnn has theirs.
Big media companies are leech to society... with the internet, information is more accessible. That's why big media companies support changing copyright laws in Europe & trying to make it hard for the individual & small companies to make/create content or share information. They are disgusting elites..

Anyways, my point is that you are naive. Politicians are usually disgusting... I have yet to find a politician that can fully represent me or that I can support without feeling guilty.