Spoiler Latest Chapter Discussion Thread for Death Mage Raws

Discussion in 'Spoilers' started by FussyBadger, Nov 25, 2017.

  1. jemini

    jemini Well-Known Member

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    Well, Mei is Origin's 2nd genuine full-fledged death mage due to her early just-after-conception exposure to the death element, so there is definitely a HUGE level of interest there. And yes, I have been rooting for Van's guidance to raise to a level high enough for him to guide Mei's soul over to Lamba and enter Vida's system after she dies in Origin. If she is a full death mage and also haunted by Bander/Banda though, there is really nothing to say that she won't eventually figure out how to out-of-body experience and just head over to Lamba on her own before her death, kinda like how Van found his way back to Origin and planted Bander there in the first place.
     
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  2. SwordofDestiny

    SwordofDestiny Well-Known Member

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    One more question........
    Who is this BOTIN?
     
  3. HiroBlaze

    HiroBlaze Well-Known Member

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    Point taken. Is that a Jeopardy buzzer? :D
    Minus 100 points for me.

    I forgot that Bander is at the end of the day a Nanny! I feel like calling him Bender from Futurama.

    I think that's meaningless not fighting in front of Mei... she might already be twisted internally or common sense warped. Mei would be like Foster's Home and his Imaginary Friends.

    The Goddess of earth and craftsmanship. Botin and Zantark's union made the dwarf race. Her champion was Hillwillow from the creation faction with Zakkart, Solder, and Ark.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
  4. SwordofDestiny

    SwordofDestiny Well-Known Member

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    Thank you very much......
     
  5. jemini

    jemini Well-Known Member

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    And then with Peria(sp?), the goddess who created the elves, also being secretly on Van's side, 2/3 of the "human" side is about to have their patron gods revive and discover that they are Vida-school gods. That's going to create serious chaos among the Alda side. Van has already set his culture-war assault's slow-march process in action, gaining the support of those two will not accelerate the march into a sprint, it's going to give it an air-carrier and carry the process to such super-speed progress that Alda's side is going to start crumbling very very fast.

    In other words, the final arc of this story just became a good 2 or 3 arcs closer than the initial estimate. (The number on that estimate was never clearly defined, but... eh...) At any rate, even the original estimate would pin that we are more than half way through the story. With this development, it's probably safe to say now that we are more than 2/3 through the story. The author may be able to push out 6 more arcs if they are slow-rolling it given the rate things are developing, but it could also be over as soon as two arcs from now if they decide to really rush it as well.

    I highly doubt they are going to rush it, so it's quite likely to be 5 or 6 more arcs in the series is my current educated guess unless there is a major unexpected development to slow things down, because things have been progressing VERY fast since Darcia's revival. It doesn't feel like it, but since she revived there has just been one major development after another. Everything Van tried to do and failed at in the 1st act of the overall story is now suddenly succeeding in the 3rd act is the way it feels to me, and all these successes are actually sending shockwaves through Lamba's society in a way that's making change that is slow at first, but then as anyone who has studied the fall of the Soviet Union can tell you, when you are fighting an oppressive regeim (like Alda's oppression of the Vida races, and the holding down of technological development for the humans,) your efforts seem slow at first, then the cracks start appearing (as they are now,) and then it all falls apart at once. It really does not take long at all from the first cracks appearing to the entire structure collapsing down, and the author seems to understand these concepts well enough that I really do expect to see this in action in this story. Things are going to get crazy Ban-Gaia side as soon as Van appears back with Botin at his side and then Peria wakes up and immediately defects.

    EDIT: In other words, Alda fears Van is going to eat Botin's soul. What Van really has in store though is going to be SOOOO incredibly much worse for him than he could ever possibly imagine. I can honestly see him rationalizing Van as still being evil and this being a tactic to get at him just for the MASSIVE amount of damage him recruiting those two is going to do to the Alda side. (Maybe he will think he brainwashed them somehow via the same method those other 3 gods were enticed.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
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  6. Efgbog

    Efgbog Well-Known Member

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    It woundn't surprise me if Botin and maybe Peria don't join Van and stay neutral or only offer a little bit of help. As people have pointed out the Author has a way of doing the opposite of what people expect to happen and most people think that Botin and Peria are going to join Van, this would also drag the story out a bit more if the Author really did do that. Can't wait to see what actually happens though it's going to be fun :blobpopcorn:
     
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  7. Nakakure

    Nakakure Zadiris Empress Faction. NNN member Nr.1.

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    Did you just naming their future Daughter Vadir if their children born as man.

    Mei already in Vida circle though.
     
  8. kari-no-sugata

    kari-no-sugata Well-Known Member

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    The follow are my thoughts on the overall shape of the story / series with regards to Alda.

    In a sense, the current story arc is closer to a "cold war" type situation (though the details are rather different to the cold war in Earth's history). We could loosely think of the two sides as being the "Alda Hegemony" and the "Vida Alliance". Alda's side is very much centred around Alda himself (and Bellwood by proxy) while Vida's side is more like a collection of different sub-groups with a common enemy with Vida as the figurehead - Vida herself has fought Alda without Van being around and Van has fought Alda's side before he got into direct contact with Vida or those directly on Vida's side and basically has his own personal reasons for fighting Alda regardless of Vida's opinion or actions. Putting it another way, Van doesn't take orders from Vida or vice-versa and the same could be said for the other major gods like Ricklent and Zuruwarn. They're working together but also doing their own thing. Botin and Peria will probably fit into this category as well. I'm not saying that they're completely independent either - you could say that Van rules over the "Vida homeland" inside the Boundary Mountain Range and even then Van only directly rules over Talosheim and there are a number of Vida satellite states as well,. You can see this also in who Van took with him on his expedition to rescue Botin - only those directly under his command.

    While Van is fighting with those directly under Alda's command for the first time this feels closer to the proxy wars during Earth's cold war period. Alda sees Botin as someone who needs protection from the malign forces on Vida's side while to Van (and those in the Vida Alliance) she's someone who needs to be rescued. But she's still an independent third party. Or putting it another way, she's one of the few remaining neutrals left - while we have every reason to suspect that Botin will take Vida's side there's no guarantee. Which is precisely why it would be a big loss to Alda for her to come out in support of the Vida Alliance. In terms of "military power" it would be a small loss but Botin taking Van and Vida's side would significantly undermine Alda's moral support / justification. Going by past actions, Alda and those on his side will likely rationalise this away - as previously suggested, probably by saying that Botin was brainwashed. ie they're more likely to compare Botin's actions with the 3 defecting gods or the duchy from the last 2 arcs which has effectively gone from being "weakly Alda supporting" to "weakly Vida supporting" and will likely become "strongly Vida supporting" if Van and co put in the effort, which is likely.

    So what would a "hot war" look by in comparison? Given that the scale is clearly global, it would be a situation where pretty much every major power (god or country) picks a side. I'm sure some gods (the "evil gods" who hadn't already gone to Vida's side and wouldn't be willing to help Vida even if Alda winning would be very bad for them) will sit things out but that'll be hard for countries. For example, we'll probably see the Amid Empire effectively become more directly controlled/influenced by Alda and at Alda's instigation will declare a holy war against against Van and those inside the Boundary Mountain Range and any of those who ally with him. I suspect that this will happen while the situation in the Orbaume Kingdom is in a flux. Alda's side would probably be hoping that they'll fully reject Van and side with the Amid Empire but I doubt this will happen unless Van makes a serious mistake or those on Alda's side can properly challenge him for hearts and minds. In short, the Amid Empire will officially declare all out war against the Vidal Empire (though they'll probably refer to Van as the Demon King) and then demand for the Orbaume Kingdom to completely reject Van and to ally with the Amid Empire (and Alda). In other words, the Orbaume Kingdom won't be able to stay neutral - they'll either need to reject Van (making an enemy out of him) or not (making an enemy out of the Amid Empire), so there'll be war either way. Given that the Orbaume Kingdom is more like a collection of semi-independent duchies, it's possible that some might want to side with the Amid Empire though, so there might not initially be a clear-cut answer and Heinz might well get involved in all this.

    For the "ground forces" on Alda's side, the "supreme commander" will likely be the Amid Emperor. Obviously Van will have this role on Vida's side. For the "heavenly forces" the supreme commander will be Bellwood (after he's revived, obviously) though they might make him the "supreme commander" of the ground forces too depending on how practical that is. After some probably brief discussion, Van will likely be appointed the supreme commander on Vida's side of the "heavenly forces" as well, or putting it another way everyone in the "Vida Alliance" will agree to change from a loose alliance to being a true unified alliance with Van as the supreme commander.

    In other words, it would look something more like a conventional war with direct battle over territory and so on, with pretty much everyone being aware that such a thing was going on. Let's say that Van wanted to rescue Botin during such a time - what would be different? Well, he'd probably try to achieve the objective quickly as a priority - take in a rapid strike team, overwhelm any Alda forces and rescue Botin. They wouldn't be able to afford to take their time. The current battle is closer to being "guerrilla warfare" though it'll likely be fairly short term - Van is trying to avoid casualties on his side as much as possible and is not prioritising speed or victory over that.

    The above "hot war" scenario does require some new developments of course. The main one being Bellwood's revival. I think that such a thing would be a strong signal for "the beginning of the end" though there might be a fairly length gap (a story arc, maybe two) between that and the hot war kicking off for real. Given how long Heinz has spent in the dungeon so far it's quite possible that Bellwood's revival could take a few years but it's unlikely to take (say) 10 years. How many story arcs that will take is another issue and is hard to predict.

    One thing I'm not sure about is when Peria coming out might occur. Given that she intervened in Botin's situation it might feel like Botin being rescued will naturally be followed by Peria coming out but I wouldn't necessarily assume that. It might depend on the specifics of Peria's situation and why she's been laying low. For example, if some of my speculation about Bellwood turns out to be correct then Bellwood's revival would be highly likely to trigger Peria to take action if she hasn't already. I guess it depends on how desperate the author wants Alda's side to become - Botin and Peria both siding with Vida prior to Bellwood's revival would put a huge amount of pressure on Alda and could make him desperate. On the other hand, the author could take more of a see-saw route where some events tilt in Van's direction and some in Alda's direction.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
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  9. hillo315

    hillo315 Intact but Tactless

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    One little nitpick. I messed with the term's individual characters in Google Translate, because it sometimes makes really weird translations with skills and jobs and attacks. I believe it means something along the lines of "World-Wreaking Void Cannon", which makes much more sense and sounds really badass.

    Peria is almost certainly secretly on Van's side, but she can't do much by herself because it's better that she stays hidden. The God of Mountains, a subordinate god of Botin, likes Van but is not ready to fight anybody. Botin is probably on Van's side, but we can only hope.

    No, she's not. She's guided, but she's not in Vida's system because Vida's system does not exist on Origin. It's like setting a radio to a certain frequency, but the only station broadcasting at that frequency is out of range. Right now, Mei is still in Rodcorte's system, and will remain there until she somehow reaches Lambda.

    Botin's allegiance would be more clear if we can tell how much she knows about Van and his goals. Also, we should take into account that Alda has always considered Botin a low priority. While Alda wants to "protect" Botin, it seems that he never tried to actually free her from the seal. This is odd because Alda has the light and life attributes under his control, and he has the know-how he needs to suppress death attribute influences, given that demon king fragments can be sealed this way. The easiest way for Alda to "protect" Botin would be to free her before Van can reach her, but he has not done this. Even if Alda can't do the deed himself, there is a surplus of light attribute gods at his command. Botin may join Van simply because Alda does not genuinely care about her beyond her loyalty or war potential.

    That's probable, but it's also possible for evil gods to fight Alda alongside Vida without being strictly on Vida's side. It's exactly like countries with a shaky relationship fighting together only because they have a common goal. Allies, but not comrades.

    Who subscribes to which faith is a huge factor in this conflict, no matter what form it takes. You gave a rough outline of how the war will probably go. I'll give (slightly) more detail.
    While the Orbaume Kingdom is a swing country and therefore a center for clashes between the 2 religions, the Amid Empire is officially Alda territory. If the Orbaume Kingdom is sufficiently divided between Alda and Vida, expect the country to split in two, possibly starting a civil war. In this situation, the Amid Empire would probably take advantage of the chaos to expand into the Alda side of the Kingdom and then fight the Vida side. On the other hand, if Van successfully converts the Kingdom to Vida, expect the Empire and Kingdom to just take this as an excuse for all-out war. Whichever path to war actually happens, Van would probably supply the Kingdom with whatever they'll need to fight the Empire, and then some. I don't expect the Orbaume Kingdom to officially affiliate itself with Alda entirely, given that Van has been really active recently and Heinz is agonizingly ineffective in comparison. That probably won't change even when Bellwood wakes up because unlike Bellwood, Van is giving people what they actually want. Crusades and missionaries at their finest.

    This almost definitely won't work wherever Van has visited personally. Referring to Van as the Demon King is the only real way to demonize him (pun intended), and anyone who knows Van as a friend will not see him as an enemy that needs to be destroyed, although virtually everyone will at least fear him. Also, Alda's prophets have been shown to be generally inferior to Vida's prophets and Alda has been slacking on sending concise messages to his believers until Van officially became the Demon King, so Vida's side has the advantage of better communication.

    Very little will change for the better if Alda wins, and the Amid Emperor knows that one-sided defeat and possibly thousands of casualties is a practically a given when the opponent is Van. With that in mind, he may undermine Alda's efforts to drive the Empire to war if he knows Van is participating. In fact, he may have realized intuitively that Van is now the Demon King. The Amid Emperor may be terribly unlucky to find himself in the middle of a rising worldwide conflict, but he's not stupid. If he has a say in it, he will not bring ruin to his empire. If he must lead the Empire headfirst into war, he'll do it as pragmatic as possible.
     
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  10. Mesaphrom

    Mesaphrom Well-Known Member

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    I just read it a "Fantasy Cannon", imagine Marisa's Master Spark and leave it at that.
     
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  11. hillo315

    hillo315 Intact but Tactless

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    Except instead of light beams, it feels like concentrated hate and emptiness itself are trying to eat you alive. Sure, Fantasy Cannon is a fun interpretation, but it doesn't do the spell justice at all.

    By the way, what are the 4 major Guduranis soul fragments Rodcorte is keeping, again? I totally forgot and I can't find where it's mentioned.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
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  12. HiroBlaze

    HiroBlaze Well-Known Member

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    But would the duchies that Van visited really denounce him? After seeing a fraction of his frightening abilities, they would most likely fear his reprisal and avoid increasing hostility like the Hartner Duchy. Even if they don't support Van, they would have to think from the perspective of the territory. If they denounce Van, then their land will be the battlefield for the two sides along with Van's enmity.

    The duchies have better chances staying within the Orbaume Kingdom as buffer zones for the outer duchies than as battles grounds for both sides to wage total war. For Nobles, the most shameful thing is to lose their land. So it comes down to they either fear the "friendly neighborhood monstrosity" or Alda's forces. Unlike Alda who cannot manifest without a steep price, Van is there in person living and breathing down their necks.

    Wasn't the Amid Emperor supposed to be disposed of by Alda? If I was him, I would do everything in my power to sabotage the war effort by the Amid Empire such as re-igniting the hatred of the vassal states for instance. Pushing for self-determination of vassal states, declassifying deplorable acts made by Alda fanatics, etc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
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  13. hillo315

    hillo315 Intact but Tactless

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    The friendly neighborhood monstrosity is scary for sure, but he isn't actively trying to cause problems. Alda is the one insisting that Van is a problem, and effectively pulling a "with us or against us" ultimatum. That said, Van can be dangerous when provoked, which is exactly what Alda is trying to make everyone do when declaring Van a threat. If they're wise enough to know what's good for them, the nobles will leave Van well enough alone. They don't have to like Van or his policies, but they're still better off just not angering him.
    This is a problem of its own. Van is basically using the threat of his power to scare the nobles straight (pulling a Guduranis), without even intending to. Because they fear Van's wrath too much to do whatever they please, the nobles may feel oppressed, especially if their policies were very anti-Vida before Van started visiting. At that point, they will either get used to Vida's doctrine and find that it's not so bad, or secretly despise Van and turn to Alda. In any case, anyone with territory and some sense would not openly denounce Van, but that doesn't stop them from looking for a way to get rid of him.
    And that is, in a nutshell, why Van prefers to keep his status hidden.

    Alda can try to get rid of the Amid Emperor, but the truth is that the Emperor has a better hold on the Empire than Alda does. Alda lives above Lambda somewhere and needs the people below to receive his words and understand them. Meanwhile, the Amid Emperor can manage everything directly. Even so, he won't be happy to hear that Alda wants to set his Empire against an enemy his best assassins can't kill. Redirecting focus from Van to internal struggles sounds like something he would do.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
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  14. Nakakure

    Nakakure Zadiris Empress Faction. NNN member Nr.1.

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    Huh i thought Mel already in Vida circle because rodcorte angel can't saw her and some Braver data.
     
  15. hillo315

    hillo315 Intact but Tactless

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    Since being guided by Van, Mei is ready to detach from Rodcorte's system at the next available opportunity. Rodcorte's familiar spirits found out because the system interpreted this as an error but Van wasn't supposed to be active on Origin, and nothing was wrong with any souls on Origin. Eventually, they found that Mei interacted with and was guided by Van in her dreams, and the familiar spirits identified this event as the source of the error.
     
  16. jubjub3000

    jubjub3000 Well-Known Member

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    So van can travel as fast as electricity now, but only with wires (paths) laid down. How's this gonna play out?
     
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  17. kari-no-sugata

    kari-no-sugata Well-Known Member

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    New chapter. We're deep underground for a mission to save a god... so let's have a concert, LOL. Mostly to help speed up Guidance though, which has just hit level 10. And more statues... though Darcia and Kanako will get ones too this time it seems. First time we see Demon King fragment safely removed from someone I believe.

    And looks like Van is going to tunnel his way to Botin after all:blobmelt:


    Hmm? I didn't get that feeling at all. More like he's working on a magic/electricity hybrid in terms of tools and energy transmission - converting his magic power into electricity to control (or recharge) multiple devices and using magic stones instead of batteries.

    PS Going to bed now so won't be replying again until tomorrow.
     
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  18. jemini

    jemini Well-Known Member

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    So far as what would happen when the war goes from cold to hot, this is very much a situation where the longer it stays cold the worse the situation will be for the Alda side. Van is currently evangelizing and building alliances in a manner that would make each and every common citizen who hears him described as Demon King instantly see such a declairation as a lie of propaganda from Alda-aligned haters of Vida races who are only saying this because he is a Damphir. That's for the people who don't know his strength.

    The people who DO know his strength will believe it, but there is no freaking way they will go against him. He will have demonstrated his personality to be that of an "I will scratch your back if you just make the slightest sound that sounds like you intend to be nice to me." Van just goes so incredibly above and beyond in terms of the nice things he gives people that is HUGELY disproportionate to what they give to him. While, on the flip-side, all acts of retribution if you make yourself your enemy are proportionate. He will return bad things in proportion to the bad things you do to him while giving you way more good things than the good things you give to him. All the while, there is the looming threat of his overwhelming power that they know could effortlessly wipe out their entire country in an instant and it would only be a mere road-bump to him.

    (Like in Alcheim, he just went ahead and created 2 golems the size of mountains for the sake of some play-acting, and didn't even break a sweat, and he did this AFTER having gone one on one (for all they know) and beaten an evil god the same size as those 2 golems and won. Yeah. There is absolutely no way human military can win against that.)

    All the while, even with Van being such a clearly overwhelming force by himself, the most serious threat Van poses to the Alda side has yet to be unveiled to the world. It is the fact that he is, at the end of the day, a creation type that just happens to also be good in combat. His ultimate goal in forming these alliances is to open trade with these duchies. As soon as he starts doing that, and the superiority of his products are proven, we will have a case where every single nation that has allied itself with Van will be so overwhelmingly better equipped that no force will ever be able to conquer them. That one easily has the power to sway the entire remainder of the Obaume kingdom over to Van's side, and after getting ahold of these superior weapons and armor they will just be itching to go back to war with Amed. Also, if some politician just makes a stray comment about the war effort with Amed using this equipment in Van's presence, Van will then share the info that Amed is his enemy as well and he was actually hoping for that. At this point, we have a strong alliance between Van and Orbaume for the purpose of stamping out Amed completely.

    Both forces at this point will be WAY better armed and Van's forces will be better manned on top of that. Plus, Amed does not have a single S class adventurer anymore. Shnider was their only one, and he defected. Meanwhile, Orbaume has 2 (Heinz and Randolf) and Vidal has.... err... well, Shnider officially, but we also have Van, and we are getting close to the point where most of Van's top subordinates are just cresting over that S class line as well.

    This will be the scenario if Alda's side sits back and lets Van's side take the initiative of course. If they continue to do nothing and only act once Van has already declared his intentions, they are going to get stamped out SOOOO hard. They do not have the strength to beat Van's main force in the boundary mountains now, but the more they wait the less they will be able to defend themselves against Van when he acts. He is currently waging the war on the ground for believers, and he is positioning himself to gain total victory in this area before even making a move on the gods. Without believers before the heavenly war even starts, the Alda side is going to be incredibly weak at this point.
     
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  19. Claus

    Claus Well-Known Member

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    Finally the Vandalieu "Guide" skills reached level 10 !!!

    And by the time Vandalieu was guiding people and felt uncomfortable, I have two theories:

    First: the Vandalieu ended up guiding someone unexpected, like the montros next or even some god, perhaps Botin in his sleep was guided by the "Dream guide". After all Vandalieu said that he felt no hostility, only discomfort.

    Second: as the Demon King Guduranis felt the Vandalieu, perhaps the Vandalieu felt the Demon King Guduranis.

    It's been a long time since we heard Vandalieu's "Demon King Fragments" when the "Demon King" skill awakened to "Great Demon King" I thought it would have some agitation, just like when the "Demon King Fusion" skill evolved. But now, Vandalieu's "Demon King Fragments" are "counted" how many "Demon King Fragments" are missing to complete the "Demon King Body". This indicates that there is little left until Vandalieu brings together all the "Demon King Fragments".
     
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  20. hillo315

    hillo315 Intact but Tactless

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    Will Guidance change to the next tier skill after Botin is guided? If not, it probably has to be a god anyway. Really good skills like Guidance and Dark King Magic need an absurd amount of use just to level up, and directly affecting a god in any way seems to give a lot of skill proficiency.

    He's digging underground? Only Botin can stop him now! Oh, wait...

    Remember, kids: The golden rule goes a long way!

    Counterexample: every soul-crushing/eating event Van has ever performed.

    Cue the army of magical girls, ready to wreck the Amid Empire's capital city.

    The first possibility sounds more likely. Guduranis can feel what is happening to his body, but is otherwise completely oblivious to the reality outside his seal. Also, if Guduranis was the one watching, Van would have felt incredible hostility. I believe that Van caught the attention of a music god. I'm pretty sure a music god was briefly mentioned earlier in the story. Randolph probably said something about it. Maybe guiding a music god is what caused Guidance to level up like that? Or maybe a music god simply happened to notice that Van invented several instruments, using demon king fragments, no less.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018