Spoiler The Founder of Diabolism

Discussion in 'Spoilers' started by kiara8, Mar 29, 2017.

  1. Loverofanimeandmanga

    Loverofanimeandmanga Equality doesn't exactly exist.

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2018
    Messages:
    841
    Likes Received:
    3,953
    Reading List:
    Link
    This brings me to the question I've always wanted to ask ever since @LoveManga MTL. U know we’re Wen Ning gets a hole punched in him:cry: So do u think that whole will get patched up. I don’t wont him to have a hole in that beautiful bod of his.
     
    LoveManga, setsuna3025, nejvi and 2 others like this.
  2. Fiorisi

    Fiorisi [WenNing's Waifu] [Chongy's Mum] ଘ(੭ˊᵕˋ)੭

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,216
    Likes Received:
    6,086
    Reading List:
    Link
    Like hell will I allow that gaping hole on his body to stay there I'm gonna drag Wei away to fix Weny Bear first before he heads off to his honeymoon with Wangji!!
     
    LoveManga, setsuna3025, nejvi and 2 others like this.
  3. readerz

    readerz Madam Jin

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Messages:
    3,797
    Likes Received:
    8,597
    Reading List:
    Link
    Thanks! Another year, another birthday, may you have many more to come, jin Ling!
     
  4. SummerForest

    SummerForest Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,255
    Likes Received:
    13,336
    Reading List:
    Link
    Friends! I've a question! In his past life Wei WuXian was not interested in men (as in cut-sleeve penchant). Then how come in his reincarnation in Mo's body he is suddenly passionately attracted towards Lan WangJi?
    I also have a little spoiler for you which will take you to the time when Wei WuXian looks into his own heart and starts doubting his own intentions...
    Rough Translation of part of Chapter 92
    Wei WuXian sighed in his heart and thought, "In fact, compared to these hidden secrets......I am more curious about whether this cut-sleeve penchant will be able to pass through the soul sacrificing ritual as well!"
    Wei WuXian wanted to think about it, but the day's weariness surged and made him rub his temple. Lan WangJi said: "Rest."
    Wei WuXian said: "Okay." He sat on the couch, kicked off the boots, laid back and said: "HanGuang Jun, you too..." When he said this he found an embarrassing problem.
    There is only one bed in the room. If Lan WangJi was to take a break, he had to lie on the same bed with him. Although they have been sleeping in a bed for so many days they don’t even know how many times. But since Jiang Cheng’s scolding in the Lotus Pier, many things seem to have become subtle. Now he cannot call Lan WangJi to come and lie with him, not even if all he wants is just a few chances to make him embarrassed for a while.
    Lan WangJi: "No."
    Wei WuXian slightly raised his body and said: "How can I do it, you are also these days..." When he said it, he regretted it. If Lan WangJi thinks it to be too much trouble, thinks having two rooms would be better, wouldn't it be more embarrassing?
    Lan WangJi: "I don't need it. You rest."
    Wei WuXian touched his chin and said: "...Oh. Then I will lie for a while. Call me when you want."
    Looking at Lan WangJi sitting at the table, Wei WuXian began to close his eyes and slowly laid down again.
    He put his arm on his head and stared at the roof for a while, rolled over and turned his back against Lan WangJi. After a while, still looking at a pair of eyes, he could not sleep peacefully, could not help but feel agitated at the bottom of his heart.
    Before this he was crazy and wild when he had said that he had to lie next to Lan WangJi to fall asleep, which was naturally all deception. However, he does not know since when this deception seems to become a fact. Wei WuXian thought: "What's to be done? Is it possible that from now on I can't sleep if Lan Zhan isn't in the same bed???"
    Everyone! MTLing this part was too critical and I've tried my best to understand the meaning implied here. This is the first part of Chapter 92 and any suggestion to improve the translation is welcome.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2018
  5. Piesus

    Piesus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2018
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    307
    Reading List:
    Link
    Well, it was guessed here already that WWX might always be kinda attracted to LWJ since he teased him so much but didn't really realised it and since LWJ was so reserved WWX never had an opportunity to realise that LWJ might have any other feelings than hatred towards him, later they interacted less and less as things became crappier. But after WWX reincarnated he is almost all the time with LWJ who showed him a lot of affection (in oppsite to his past life when LWJ scolded him any time any place xd) and his feelings developed...? I personally don't think of him as a cut-sleeve since it was said clearly he troubled a lot of girls. I like to think that LWJ is just the one ^^ (no matter the gender).
     
  6. Uguisumaru

    Uguisumaru Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2018
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    384
    Reading List:
    Link
    FOR ME,..Yes that Wei Wuxian in his past life we can all tell that he's ''straight'' atleast. he was a flirt and he even said it to lan wangi that he doesn't like Men.

    only that,Wei Wuxian in his second life fell for lan wangji because he spent most of his time with him and made him realized and appreciate all the little actions/things lan wangji did for him. and also protecting him and never leaving his side,which is for him A VERY FIRST. Wei Wuxian pretty much doesnt have any things to do,responsibilities and things to prioritise compared to his first life and also he and lan wangji doesnt spend much time together either which makes wwx sometimes believes lan wangji hates him/doesnt like him. WHICH this was proven WRONG in his 2nd life after spending so much time with him.

    its pretty much like spending so much time with a person and you slowly falling in love with them and appreciate them more no matter what they are,who they are etc. it is the same for lan wangji,who only fell for wei wuxian and no other else.not in the way now that wwx is a cutsleeve,that other men will do too if its not with lan wangji.
     
  7. SummerForest

    SummerForest Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,255
    Likes Received:
    13,336
    Reading List:
    Link
    Let's have a look at the first sentence of the spoiler of CHAPTER 92. It us what made me raise the question.
     
    nejvi and setsuna3025 like this.
  8. Uguisumaru

    Uguisumaru Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2018
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    384
    Reading List:
    Link
    what exactly is cutsleeve penchant btw? dont exactly get that part:hmm:
     
    LoveManga, nejvi and setsuna3025 like this.
  9. SummerForest

    SummerForest Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,255
    Likes Received:
    13,336
    Reading List:
    Link
    In K's translation they have referred homosexuality as cut-sleeve penchant.
     
  10. Nyann

    Nyann Nyartist

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2018
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    28,988
    Reading List:
    Link
    Thanks for the mtl!!! Kyaaaaaa! A restless heart!
    About the previous lines, there have been discussion about this before. Someone said that based on scientific research homosexuality is inborn. Wei Wuxian was very much straight in his previous body as homosexuality wasn't in his genes. Mo Xuanyu's body on the other hand was homosexual from birth.
    However this entire statement seems like a disgrace to me. I know there are genes for sex, but sexuality? Is it really inborn? Somehow it suggests even more that homosexuals are "out of ordinary/abnormal". But i'll leave that to scientists, maybe thats true for animals in general...
    BUT as a humanities student, I believe human beings are much more than animals who follow instinctual needs. WE HAVE SOMETHING CALLED THE PSYCHE. The soul. That is even truer for MDZS. Is every hetero relationship based on sex? Dont we have something called attachment, admiration, love?
    I insist we notice the following:
    * Wei Wuxian, even in his previous body thought Lan Wangji was handsome. Not just thought, DESCRIBED. He, on the other hand, didn't call Lan XiChen handsome or Jin ZiXuan handsome the same way. He would constantly talk of him in Yunmeng after he came back.
    * Wei Wuxian, even though he was 'straight', he never had any sexual or even physical contact with women romantically.
    * It might be due to social norm and expectations, he took it for granted he was 'straight'. He was naughty and playful, and exceptionally handsome, naturally his shidi and all around him will also form an impression he is "flirty". unconciously, he lived to their expectations.
    *Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji were young then, their relationship would hardly seem romantic or suggestive. If anything, it seemed opposite, and as we all know Wei Wuxian is a birdbrain when it comes to love, he didnt even have a remote idea.
    * Wei Wuxian didn't spend considerable time in his past life as he does for present. He didn't care enough to know Lan Wangji's emotions as he had lot of other things to take care of.
    * After reincarnation, he didnt have anyone on his side. Nobody to love him, his shijie, his shidi or anyone . He was behaving the same way as he did with Lan Wangji in the beginning, but after knowing Lan Wangji knew who he was, he was probably moved. He now unconciously found someone, just one person he could rely on. Thus the centre of all his affection became Lan Wangji.
    *Now that he stays with him always, he noticed how much he changed from his teens. He didntnotice before as the extent of his "change" overcame lwj's.
    *He thought at the 3rd drunk adventure, that no matter what he could never have been better alone than he was now with lwj.
    *Biologically, even "straight" people have sexual excitement regardless of sex if the situation is such.
    * I believe "not reading gay porn" isn't a basis for self proclaimation that one is straight. It was in chap 97 he thought "but he cant stay calm anymore, his body already had the taste of lwj" EXACTLY! Without even trying practically how does one know they are only straight or gay?
    * I believe Wei Wuxian is bisexual, i dont think his naturally flirtatious attitude towards women changed even as he ended up with lwj. As evident from his interaction with the female disciple in Gusu. However, i believe Lan Wangji is neither attracted to men or women, i.e. asexual, except Wei Wuxian.
    *Hence, at last i will attribute all their sexual desire for each other as a result of love, an abstract, rather than stating it as something rigid and biological.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2018
  11. Uguisumaru

    Uguisumaru Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2018
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    384
    Reading List:
    Link
    i knew about the cutsleeve...i thought cutsleeve penchant had a different meaning in it. thank you

    uhh i dont think so,maybe wei wuxian was only wondering/ still confused about how he really feels for lan wangji at that moment or if that feeling is real and thought his sudden attraction to a man/lan wangji might have something to do with mxy being cutsleeve. tho i doubt if mxy is still alive that he'll also fall for lan wangji. its the same with mxy liking jgy because of jgy being really nice and mxy having no good experience being a disciple in lanlingjin.
     
    LoveManga, Sauling, nejvi and 2 others like this.
  12. setsuna3025

    setsuna3025 cheif protecter of WWX and LWJ love relationship

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,165
    Likes Received:
    2,576
    Reading List:
    Link
    ohhhh i always thought meng yao stabbed NMJ actually hjahahha until i read it twice again aft u qutoe this part den i realise its meng yao stabbin himself. cause was wonderin y is NMJ givin spiritual engery to meng yao when meng yao stab NMJ den i read again den i realise its the other way round LOLOLOLOLOL. but hw did he stab himself and yet still can run away LOL or he didnt stab himself but use something else to trick NMJ eyes?
    tat guy is a FKIN COWARD I TELL U LOLOLOLOL. like wattttttttttttttttttttttt com on la so scared den u might as well just run the min u see NMJ instead of doin something so damn cowardly. :blobunamused:. but den again maybe he cant run from NMJ tats y he resort to those unhanded tricks -.-
    same been wonderin about tat was it ever closed up? does wen ning hav regenarting abilities? if he has tat will be so cool. or did wei fix him
    hmmmmmmmmmm well can say tat in wei first life he was definitely attarcted to wanji but he always thought wanji hated him since wanji said they were not close, and always scoldin him and askin him to take punishment for the things he has done.

    although true wei might not hav like men in the past but for some reason he stated tat he has nvr seen anyone as beautiful as wnaji b4 and he was DEFINITELY attracted to tat. he tease him so much ( like they always say u always tase the person u like to get thier attention). and wanji didnt realli like it and push him away. onli aft the xanwu cave did he try to be closer but was too late.

    den nw in wei second life they r always together and wanji torelates wei teasing all the time and doesnt push him away like he did b4 so wei finally saw wanji actions and felt tat he wasnt alone and tat wanji was there for him all the time, and attending to his every need?
    but he was still so dense URGHHH LOL SO WWX HAHAHAHAH. onli aft wat JC said to him den wei realise his feelin were developin but still didnt knw and was still dense LOL DENSE IDOIT :blobjoy::blobjoy::blobjoy::blobjoy::blobjoy::blobcheeky::blobcheeky::blobcheeky:.
    just my thoughts
    agreed no other men will fall for wwx like wanji, onli wanji fell for wei like tat.
     
  13. Sauling

    Sauling Wangxian[忘羨] is my Precious OTP ( ˘ ³˘)♥

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,123
    Likes Received:
    4,187
    Reading List:
    Link
    For me, I think what makes love so endearing is you can fell in love with that person, no matter the gender. I also think that @Piesus has a point in her reply which pretty much said what's on my mind. If I'm going to add to her points, remember the scene in ch 66, which I'll copy for you:
    And yes, this does fit Weiying's character because in the past, when he tease Lan Zhan, he wanted him to look his way. I believe it's a form of interest, attraction he has for him, but because Lan Zhan is a male, and Weiying is more oblivious to this romance since he never thought his interest lies in that area(homosexual), he never really thought much into his heart or something.
    Plus Lan Zhan always gives off the wrong signal like they're not close or he doesn't like him because when Weiying said to him they're already so familiar, Lan Zhan back then (at that time) said they're not.

    So for me, I do see that it has started for Weiying back then but never got to the point of "in love", it's only when Weiying came back in this life, when they spend more time together, is when Weiying starts to develop those feelings into being in love, if that makes sense.

    So, I don't really see Weiying as a cut sleeve the way Mo Xuanyu is, because he's not attracted to any other men, but only Lan Zhan because he love him for who he is, gender does not matter. Same thing can be said for Lan Zhan. Anyways this is how I see it.
     
  14. Uguisumaru

    Uguisumaru Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2018
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    384
    Reading List:
    Link

    TRUE...also young lan zhan at that time is also still in denial though he realized his feeling for wei ying earlier than him(wwx). and young lan zhan being young doesnt really know what to do and is bad at really communicating which is why they had a lot of misunderstandings. and wwx prioritized his family and being by jiang cheng's side than his own and his feelings.
     
  15. SummerForest

    SummerForest Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,255
    Likes Received:
    13,336
    Reading List:
    Link
    I want to say so many things but can't, as I'm pretty much overwhelmed with your responses.
    Still, there are a few things which I must clarify.
    That Wei is curious to know if Mo's cut-sleeve penchant is going to affect him through the Sacrifice of his soul, is written in the novel (i think?). So I'm pretty curious myself to know what he means here.
    That Mo was a cut-sleeve was never proved beyond doubt. It might as well be a plot by JGY to throw him into disgrace.
    That Wei is anxious to know his own heart and mind. He is attracted towards WangJi but doesn't know how to acknowledge his own feelings. See, how he thinks that his pranks have turned into facts and now he really can't go to sleep without having WangJi by his side! There lies the beauty of this part.
    That human sexuality is neither 'homo' nor 'hetero'. It is rather a spectrum where these two terms are at two ends of the spectrum with other sexual preferences lying in between them.
    And that Wei had been blinded by the dazzling beauty of WangJi way back in his teens and never actually looked away again (just like WangJi). Later he came to know WangJi's inner beauty too and gave his own heart and soul away to him...
    That love is actually something way above and beyond sexuality and desire for procreation.
     
  16. SummerForest

    SummerForest Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,255
    Likes Received:
    13,336
    Reading List:
    Link
    I hope this is not considered as a double post!
    I just felt that I might say a few words in regard to the 'scientific' basis of homosexuality.
    It was indeed a well known concept. But recently it has been accepted that this is not the case and that there is no particular gene in this regard. In fact, the sacred role of XX and XY pair of chromosomes in determining human sexuality is also doubted now. The comparison of spectrum with sexuality is a result of new researches in this regard.
     
    LoveManga, setsuna3025, Nyann and 2 others like this.
  17. AngryEggplant

    AngryEggplant Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2018
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    347
    Reading List:
    Link
    WWX is the very definition of a disaster bi :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: I agree with much of what you’ve said here. Although, while demisexual/asexual LWJ can be argued, I personally like to think he’s homosexual (cut-sleeve). I see it as a much more powerful message that a character is a revered cultivator and role model, happens to be gay, and is still revered regardless. If Hanguang-Jun is silently judged for anything, it’s for having feelings for/being with the Yiling Patriarch, not for being gay. I think that’s a conscious choice MXTX made and it’s a powerful one.
     
    zeromint, LoveManga, Aeli and 4 others like this.
  18. nejvi

    nejvi ~\(≧▽≦)/~

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2018
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    2,321
    Reading List:
    Link

    This is well said, I've been thinking about that part. This sentence - "Her husband spoke calmly, “Let him be. Boys, don’t they bully other people only because they like them? They just want others to look at them." I believe that was the time when WW finally understood a few things. I remember the time when I was young and all the children in my neighborhood were playing together. I always got dragged and picked on by this one boy, I remember I hated him. Although I never liked him back what he did made me pay attention to him and we got into a lot of fights. Later I wouldn't even want to talk to him, sad story. :blobjoy: But props to LWJ for keeping cool head when WW was doing crazy stuff, I would have definitly strangle WW one day if I was him. :blobhero:
     
  19. Nyann

    Nyann Nyartist

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2018
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    28,988
    Reading List:
    Link
    YEP!!! That's one of top reasons why i love Mo Dao Zu Shi so much. It represents all kinds of complex human nature and emotions in a realistic way even if its a fantasy... Nothing seems 'abrupt' here, everything has complex reasons and development.
     
  20. AngryEggplant

    AngryEggplant Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2018
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    347
    Reading List:
    Link
    :blobhighfive: Well said. It’s so beautifully written in the novel and such a lovely message and just SO TRUE. <333