I'm sssooorrrryyyy!! Weny Bear is Wei's number one faaannn!!! He couldn't help itt I'm sorry Cheng! Weny Bear was just filled with anger at that moment, and couldn't bear to hold the secret any longer For me, I sort of lean more towards Fengmian's perspective. The way Madam Yu brought up her issues, how she handled them in explosive anger, and how she was always accusing. It kind of felt like she was narrow-minded? To me it seemed as if Fengmian never really explained or "defended" himself to her is because he probably thought "Oh..but will she listen to me? Will she even believe my words?" I think after years being with Madam Yu perhaps Fengmian just sort of gave up trying to explain his side of the argument? Because immediately after Fengmian says any words Madam Yu jumps in and starts a new a counter-argument. What Fengmian wants is to talk not to argue, but it doesn't seem like something that can be done easily with her. I do agree with the lack of love they portrayed to their children sucked badly. But, to me, it's not just Fengmian's fault but Madam Yu's as well. Fengmian never explicitly showed his true emotions towards his children, only ever directing it towards Wei, which Wei felt bad for. On the other hand, Madam Yu only displayed anger, constantly comparing her son to Wei and never acknowledged his achievements (same with Fengmian). My view on this two couple can be biased though as I have an aunt whose personality is a copy of Madam Yu. I love my auntie but hate her at the same time, it's a mix of emotion.
Awwwww!!!! So cute!!! For once I am not at all mad at the culprit!!! Hahahaha! Have all of them by yourself @Lan Zhan! I am not at all mad at you lolololol!
Well, then we just have different opinions towards Madam Yu and Jiang Fengmian. I don't see her love as unconditional because an example of unconditional love (to me) is....... YanLi on both Wei Ying and Jiang. Madam Yu? She is setting such 'high standards' on her son, to the point that it can really suffocates, and makes him feel insecure, not to mention what Jiang Cheng said in the Lotus Seed Pod extra just emphasize how I feel even more, Jiang Cheng said he didn't want Wei Ying to invite Lan Zhan over because she didn't want his mother to start comparing him to Lan Zhan, and probably said all those things he's afraid to hear. This feels like conditional love to me, or at least, how Jiang Cheng feels from his mother. I guess it just comes to different interpretations to how we feel towards certain characters, I mean, that's what makes us different. Madam Yu isn't a likeable character for me (for all said), because I didn't like that she was being so hard on Jiang Cheng, I didn't like that she always say Wei Ying is a trouble-maker and always repeatedly said this, which in the end, look what it made Jiang Cheng turned into. There are other ways to love/train Jiang Cheng into a worthy sect leader without being so hard/harsh. I'm not saying this to make Madam Yu sound evil, she's not evil, but it doesn't mean she's a good mother also. If say, Jiang Fengmian is a terrible father for showing his love for his own children, then in another perspective, Madam Yu is too, because she wasn't able to express her love in a healthy way. I love Jiang Fengmian because, if I must say, Jiang Fengmian personality is similar to Jiang Yanli and Jiang Cheng personality is similar to Madam Yu. And do I need to make a comment about Jiang Yanli? Because it's that personality of hers that I love. Both Jiang Cheng and Madam Yu is the type to like to take the responsibility on their shoulders and have a difficult way of expressing their love the right way, whereas Jiang Fengmian and Yanli, they are both gentle/kind characters, who doesn't have that heart to compete/be the better i.e. no.1 to the world. This was Madam Yu's ideals to make Yunmeng Jiang Sect to become, strict training, no rest, but this isn't Jiang Fengmian's ideals. I see him as the easy going type. I really don't see him running away from his problems, because I feel like it's because of their clashing ideals, they will never be on the same term/ideals because how Madam Yu wants to make Yunmeng Jiang sect to become isn't how Jiang Fengmian wants to make the sect to become. This is why, he's letting her be in charge to train the sect disciples. It isn't him being lazy, because can you imagine Madam Yu not being the one giving orders? This is him respecting her and letting her do things her own way <because she can't sit back and not be strict nor would she agree with Jiang Fengmian easy-going training method> If they raise the sect disciple together, they will bound to be more clashing ideals, arguments, so this is why he's stepping back and let Madam Yu handle this. It isn't him being irresponsible, but if you look at it from another perspective, this is how I see this. Why does it matter to carry such ideals, YMJ isn't the Qishan Wen Sect . I believe Jiang Fengmian wasn't neglecting his own responsibility as a Sect Leader, but he was just trying to respect Madam Yu that is how she wants the Sect to be. Different ways of handling things. Also, from what I remember, didn't Jiang Fengmian wanted to mend the hair pin for Madam Yu before they died? That's already showing me he did love her in some way, even when he never had a chance to express it. It's hard expressing this to Madam Yu's because of her personality being the way it is, can there ever be a chance? They are both so awkward around each other... And can we blame all this on Jiang Fengmian? With how Madam Yu being the way she is, I always got that impression that she doesn't listen to others reasons, because she's so self-centered, narrow minded and think that she's right etc, this is why when Jiang Fengmian wanted to talk about their daughter, Yanli marriage, Jiang Fengmian was thinking from a loving father perspective and wants to respect Yanli's decisions, and not push her to marrying someone she may not love, but did Madam Yu listen? To me, Jiang Fengmian, isn't someone who cares about comparing Jiang Cheng to Wei Ying, he never actually needs to set that high standards on Jiang Cheng, that as long as he understands the true motto of the Yunmeng Jiang Sect, then that's enough, he doesn't need to be better than Wei Ying etc etc, this was all Madam Yu that gave Jiang Cheng these ideals. I still remain how I see this whole thing, if Madam Yu doesn't act the way she did, i.e. not being a good listener, being so hard, narrow minded, tough like a queen, but being more like an understanding person, then things will also turn out differently. Well, in the end, we do see this so differently (in terms of perspectives). You dislike Jiang Fengmian for your reasons and I dislike Madam Yu for mines for all said. But in the end, this is just us having different interpretations to the actions/characters to this story LOL. EDIT: In the end, don't mind me for giving my thoughts and feelings to this perspective of mines and how I see this, while we do have different perspectives about this, it is indeed nice to see other perspectives even if we may not agree ^^
Yeah hahahahaha their misunderstanding sure is something else, but oh god, I just want Luo Binghe to realize that's SQQ right there!!!! *aaaah the frustration* Thanks for the link again Yeah others have, I shall check that out on my end Like @Nyan sempai , I can't bring myself to be mad at Lan Zhan But still, I know how you feel, because OMG, I just wanted ONE tiny version of Wei Ying!!!!
Nope I didn’t say I disliked Jiang Fengmian just my feelings lend more to dislike than like. But your not wrong I see JFM the way u see madam Yu. I feel like I need to explain the reason I feel madam Yu loved her children unconditionally. People love in different ways, but that doesn’t mean they love them any less. Madam Yu definitely portrays that saying to me. She maybe stricted , stubborn and closed minded, but this doesn’t stop her from realising what’s most important to her. If she didn’t, she wouldn’t of saved her son. She wouldn’t of held him in her arms, to the point that it seemed she wanted to put Him back in her womb ( to keep him safe ) . She wouldn’t of said all the things she said just before her death ( I can’t remember what she said it’s been a while since I last read that chapter. ) She wouldn’t of constantly tried reasoning ( though she so terrible at it.) I’m gonna quote @Fiorisi she never helped her situation by doing that. But nevertheless she loved her children unconditionally, if not she wouldn’t of told them to look for Jiang Yanli, to keep safe. Madam Yu always has her children on her mind, makes sure there safe, wants to know what their doing. If their okay, if there not okay. Well At lest that what I got from reading the novel. Madam Yu and Jiang Fengmian are both emotional constipated. I ship them so much even though there relationship isn’t healthy. Yes I had/have faith that one day ( if not for their deaths ) they could’ve put their differences a side, mended things and begin to live a happier life together. I will say there are a lot of things that madam Yu said that i wasn’t happy with and didn’t like. But for some reason I can’t help but love her. That jade hair pin, did he try to fix’s it? ( I think that was just in the donghua ) I agree that jade hair pin symbolised his fillings towards her, but what she wanted was not a gift. Gift don’t tell what one feels nor does it show it. With that being Madam Yu a dense women. So when he told her about the marriage being canceled she would’ve immediately thought? It was a gift for to accept his decision, sort of like a bribe. So well I think JFM bought it because he loved her, she thinks so this is why u bought me this gift.
its a gd thing wen ning gav JC a "slap" in the face nice goin wen ning JC needed tat wake up call alright ahhahahhahha. ahhahahahah ezra became a victim of the authour thoughts of givin fanservice lolol. hav u read the new work by Mashima call eden zero? kinda ncie actually for me its netural mostly cause to me he is easy goin and doesnt demand much from any of his children but he fails to at least praise his own son and tell him he is proud of JC, but cause JFM nvr realli said anything and praised wei ying more tat made madam yu super jealous IMO cause she doesnt like it one bit and she start comparing and makin such high standards for JC to make him into a sect leader they way she wans him too. but tat is just wrong and i don like wat she is doin. though i think she herself felt inferior to wei ying mother cause she was strong and did wat she wanted and she even captured JFM heart at first, but aft wei mom got married to wei father (hard to type their names ), JFM let her go buttttttttttttttttttttttttt madam yu just hav to be so bitter about it cause she still feel like JFM loves wei mother to the point of goin to adpot him. (beware ppl this is wat a super jealous woman will do if something like this happen). but oso cause JFM didnt knw hw to talk properly and say it clearly tat nw the one he loves is madam yu and not wei mom, but nooooooooooooooo madam yu just hav to go and think otherwise and vent out everything hatred/fusturation on wei just cause he cause JFM to look at him more and not at his own son. madam yu said wei will cause trouble and ruin thier family and sect wif his actions etc etc but the one hu actully ruin the family in the first place was her IMO cuase she is just soooooooooooo bitter about wei and she even push all those ideas into JC head , and tat made JC exactly like his mom askin wei not to cause trouble blah blah and oso start to not like wat wei was doin. i blame both parents for not talkin properly and bringing thier children into their mess. madam yu don wan to listen at all and always bring up wei in their conversation when JFM is tryin to talk things out just to spite him i think or make him feel gulity or something. and JFM nvr tried to talk to JC or at least say tat he is proud of JC and tat he loves JC. Shijie is the best sister everrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr so poilte and kind and patience and doesnt care for the top or anything and just love JC and wei ying wattttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt lan zhan i see watcha did there . but lol y u do this us wei fans wan one oso . oh well as long as u r happy lan zhan its ok lololol nw u ppl make me wan to get one too though wasnt goin to but nw since @Lan Zhan bought all cant be help
Lan Zhan is taking advantage of the fact that he's rich while we poor losers can only stare at our wallets in pity and question our spending ways... ... No just me?! Alright I'm the loser here then...
Then all I can say is that Madam Yu have a really terrible ways of expressing her "unconditional" love. While I do understand there are different ways of love, and loving someone, that's what makes us different in that sense. To me, I see unconditional love something like how Yanli and Lan Zhan showing their love to those they love. It's not a love where they set a condition that needs to be met in order to love that person, it's loving that person completely, even if there are flaws and without expecting anything in return, you don't need to earn that love, it's given to you freely. For Madam Yu, I failed to see this. Say, she loves Jiang Cheng unconditionally, then would she needs to compare Jiang Cheng to the others each time? She gives that impression to not only me, but Jiang Cheng too, he said so on his end. Quote from the Lotus Seed Pod Extra, which was roughly translated in a long time ago (found this in Fiorisi Directory Post, which I remember reading): https://forum.novelupdates.com/threads/the-founder-of-diabolism.32452/page-81#post-3544803 (#2) Yes, she loves Jiang Cheng, and she would sacrifice herself to ensure the safety of her son, this is her love for Jiang Cheng and I'm not arguing against that, but the way how she show her love in such a way, feels more conditional than unconditional. This is why Jiang Cheng turned out to be like this as well. E.g. Didn't MXTX said in one of her interviews that JC is on the women's black list because he set all these standards that needs to be met in order for him to marry her? That's already a conditional love here. So, how Jiang Cheng became this way, it's a form of failed love given to him by his parents. Yes, you can say that Jiang Fengmian fail to show this love to Jiang Cheng too, but in the end, I see it most as how Madam Yu show her "love" on Jiang Cheng that made him who he is today. The whole ideals about "Competing, comparing originates from Madam Yu", she is showing Jiang Cheng that he needs to earn this love, for that person to love him, and this is not right. I know Madam Yu can love, she's not heartless, but I don't think she understands the true essence of what it means to love someone unconditionally. If she did, then she will show me things differently, if she did, then she will try to listen to Jiang Fengmian when he wants to talk, she wouldn't try to get into an argument with him every time they talk because they have different opinions. How can you expect Jiang Fengmian to even make that first step if he wants to talk, but every time they talk, it ends with Madam Yu dismissing the idea, or not listening to such an idea because she's so narrow minded? And to clear this up on my end, conditional love is also a form of love as well, when I say that it's more conditional love than unconditional, it doesn't mean I am dismissing her love for Jiang Cheng, but to me, it just mean that I don't see it as her loving Jiang Cheng without constantly comparing her son to others (if that makes sense). If she loves him unconditionally, she wouldn't need to compare to others. She wouldn't show her son this kind of love, and wouldn't make her son (JC) feel that he is being compared to all the time. I won't go into how I feel towards Madam Yu anymore, since I've said this a couple of times, elaborating my view points so, I'll just say this, for me, I do hold her responsible because of her high expectations and her constant saying all this about Wei Ying that made who Jiang Cheng is today.... This is why I brought Madam Yu into the picture when I first talked about Wen Ning. Jiang Cheng blames Wei Ying for the demise, downfall to Lotus Pier instead of being reasonable about this whole thing, this is not entirely his fault, but it's because this is how Madam Yu showed him through these years... Madam Yu is always quick to blame Wei Ying first instead of listening to reason. This is why, because of Madam Yu setting this as an example, deep down, Jiang Cheng already and will always feel that no matter what Wei Ying does, given it is the right thing to do, Jiang Cheng will never agree and see that it will always bring disaster for him/his sect, I do held Madam Yu responsible because what she believed/says resonates inside Jiang Cheng over the years, leading him to not stand on Wei Ying side, not understand Wei Ying's reasons of doing the right thing because he doesn't understand since in his mind, he already sees that Wei Ying actions will bring trouble to the sect. There's always another alternative, and Jiang Cheng can stand by Wei Ying side, instead of severing ties with him to save him/his sect. This is how his mother taught him, "to stay out of trouble, Wei Ying will bring disaster to Lotus Pier etc etc". Anyways, I don't know if that hair pin was a donghua thing, but Jiang Fengmian, just like in the Donghua, in the novel, did went away to do something important on his end (after the argument), so I like to take it that he went to mend the hair pin on his end, because he wants to mend their relationship, and yes, like you, I also feel that if they have more time, if Jiang Fengmian can perhaps show her the mended hair pin as a first step (even if this was not entirely confirmed in the novel), then perhaps they can finally develop in their relation and they both can be loving in front of Jiang Cheng and Jiang Cheng can grown up happier in the end. I know what Madam Yu wants isn't a gift, but Jiang Fengmian's love, but she needs to also learn how to talk nicely, and not start an argument each time Jiang Fengmian wants to talk, because healthy relationship isn't about arguing, but it's about talking and listening to each others ideas etc. Well, that's how I see it. And that's fine with you loving Madam Yu I'm not against people loving her, even when I don't feel the same, for me Jiang Fengmian could be a better father too, and I don't disagree with that, but well, this is how I see it, I hold Madam Yu more responsible for all said, in her way of showing me these things, so I won't go into how I feel about her love for Jiang Cheng anymore, I guess this is why we have different perspectives and how we feel about certain characters, even when we may not agree on some situations (don't mind me for typing so long again haha).
No worries it’s interesting to see ur view on things. Conditional love for me means their obligated to love, they have to love. To me u can love unconditionally even if ur like madam Yu or like Jiang Fengmian. Mothers and fathers a like, normally compare there children with others. For example ur sister has a job and u don’t. What do ur parents say? U should be more like ur sister. Get a job. Another example of this Ur sister is smarter than u. What do ur parents say? If your sister can do it why can’t u? See siblings r constantly compared to one another, does that mean their parents love them any less. Nope. Does that mean one is loved unconditionally, and the other is loved conditionally. Nope. Although madam Yu goes beyond the normal comparison of comparing siblings with each other. I don’t know why I just feel u can love a child unconditionally even if u compare them with another child, or set high expectations for them. ( I guess I wouldn’t no because my parents never set expectations for me, and that’s why I’m extremely dumb LOL. ) but people that I acquainted with parents do set really high expectations/goals so mush so if they if don’t get an E and get an M or M+ ( E stands for excellent, highest grade. M stands for Merit, 3rd highest grade with M+ being second highest standing for almost at E ) if don’t get an E and get an M or M+ they cry. So if I compare relief situation with madam Yu witch really can’t be compared since she did put huge a mount of pressure on JC. But i can’t bring myself not to like her. Thank u for saying it’s fine to like whichever character u chose, though I would still love her if u didn’t. However with that being said it makes me happy ur not biased towards people that like characters u don’t. Well I guess this were we end things. So let’s agree to disagree. ( sorry I wanted to say that because that’s what my family says when the disagree. It’s ment to be a polite way of ending a discussion, that not everyone agrees on.) I hope u don’t mind I said that.
Yeah, "Agree to disagree" is a polite way of ending an argument/debate when we already reached our final concluding point and accepted we won't share the same opinion about something.You don't need to feel sorry for saying that, since this is what we normally do to end it nicely (haha). Since we won't be agreeing with each other on this viewpoint, then indeed, agree to disagree
So I just found this song ( in eng subs ) and I’m already in love with it. Pls watch all of it if u haven’t seen it already. Edit: JGY says something that u’s must read. Also the songs sounds beautiful, as well as the lyrics.
@Loverofanimeandmanga @Sauling did the debate end? . Well... I am of Jiang FengMian on this. These things you said, were you talking about Yu ZiYuan? When did YZY ever compared JC's performsnce with anyone else? Wasn't it JFM? I dunno why you hate him. Is it s crime that he was treating his wife and children so calmly even if he loved someone else, like was it even proved that he doesn't love YZY now? Didn't he kindly call her "My Lady" and bought hair pins for her? Does Yu ZiYuan deserve it? They way she treated Jiang FengMian was if he was someone as horrid as Jin Guanshan! It's a goddamn delusion and mental illness! I dunno if you're standing for YZY cause she's another woman, or so called "badass". But if one, I hate this nature of women to always suspect their husband have another affair when their husband is just the best husband there could be! This leads to total insanity! She never accepted Wei Wuxian as a child that you're referring to! She was like "DONT YOU DARE LET THIS DARN SON OF A SERVANT OVERCOME YOU!", "A-Li! Why are you plucking seeds for him? You aren't his servant!" Is this the way "parents" talk about their children? She never appreciated wwx's talent. Not everyone in the world is like WWX, so I don't agree that he was not mistreated! THIS IS SO DAMN SELFISH! How dare they criticise wwx for saving Lan Zhan, Jin ZiXuan and Mian mian? HOW DARE THEY CRITICISE WEI WUXIAN FOR EVERYTHING THATS WRONG WITH THEM JUST BECAUSE THEIR HAUGHTY SELF CENTRED SELVES COULDN'T ACCEPT IT? And then you may say that it's because Wwx didn't fulfil his promise to Jiang Cheng! Fuck! WEI WUXIAN'S GOLDEN CORE WAS ALWAYS THERE REVOLVING RIGHT INSIDE JIANG CHENG!!! How dare ppl tell me Wei Wuxian didn't stand by Jiang Cheng!?? It was the other way! Jiang Cheng didn't stand for his shidi even when the entire world went against him! And HE EXPECTS for Wei Wuxian to be loyal to him? Is Wei Wuxian really as worth as a SERVANT? I also agree with Wen Ning! Truth is that it was always Jiang Cheng who compared himself with wwx but in reality he could never hold a torch to him!
@Nyan sempai our debate has ended . I dont necessarily disagree with you except for me it isn't Jiang Fengmian who is comparing Jiang Cheng's performance with the others but it's Madam Yu (for all said), Honestly what you said about Madam Yu is exactly why I can never like her on my end. And urgh, yes, Wei Ying was always by Jiang Cheng side all this time so literally he never broke his promise... because his GC has assisted him all these years....Jiang Cheng have no right to blame Wei Ying for this because instead of helping Wei Ying and standing by his side, he chose to cut ties with him to save himself and his sect..... (Thinking this chain of thoughts is making me emotional as hell!)
Umm ha?! wait no no I never said I hated him. We’re did u get that? Ummm also I’ve never thought of Wei Wuxian as their child , and I didn’t mean to imply that. Yeah I said siblings but that’s only because that’s what JC and WWX are to me. I don’t get it, aren’t I allowed to have my own opinions on characters? I get that YZY is no we’re near perfect, and far from it. I can’t help my self from liking her, it just happened and that won’t change. My feelings on JFM are diffrent After reading what @Sauling said about I began to view him little bit differently. So know I feel nothing towards his character I nether like him nor dislike him, and I certainly don’t hate him. Why did you compare him to a sallow man like JGS I never once implied he was like him, because I know for certain he’s not. JFM is good man so why would I hate him? My little heart got hurt when u said “ BUT IN REALITY COULD NEVER HOLD A TORCH TO HIM. I don’t know when u said that it felt like. Well do u remember the chapter were people were all like. It’s all because of WWX that the Yunmeng Jiang Sect was rebuilt so fast. JC work his ass off, yet still people didn’t acknowledge him. u didn’t need to say he can never hold a touch to Wei Wuxian. Do dislike JC so much u had to slander him? I won’t try and defend YZY action because a lot of the things she said and did was wrong. When You say u don’t like women like her, most of the time I don’t ether, but like I said before I can’t help what I feel towards her. I don’t like her because she another women ( I’m not sexist. ) or because she a bad ass I just like her. But as @Sauling said this debate is over. With that being said @Nyan sempai? Do u like or dislike JC? Pls tell me. It’s 12:01am I need to get to bed, Night. Also Pls don’t take my reply back to u offending or hurtful. I didn’t mean for it sound like that so if it does know I didn’t mean for it to.
Ohhhhh!! I missed out on some debate involving the very handsome dad Jiang Fengmian The dad is even more handsome than the son.
The "Jiang Fengmian & Madam Yu" topic created an interesting heated debate before. Whenever these two's relationship & parenting are brought up, I find it fascinating how it can stir up quite a lot of analysis or opinions from readers as it is something which hits close to home for most of us. So, if anyone wishes to keep discussing about it add me to pls cuz I love this topic~ I am happy to see there are others taking in Jiang Fengmian's perspective now. The previous debate we had about this, most were on Madam Yu's perspective. Though the universal agreement that was taken on the previous debate in order to end this topic before was understanding how parenthood has a lot of hits and misses. In many ways both had faults. That much is apparent, also, aside from the Jiang couple, the Jins parenting style and even the Lans parenting style have rooms for improvement too. Although if Iwere to choose out of all the parenting styles Qiren's "parenting" is far more bearable than the other two styles. At least, with Qiren he raised two children with an incredibly strong brotherhood, strong mentality, and strong morals with impeccable personalities. Uncle deserves an award for that.