Discussion A huge problem with modern day CN novels

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by AndyDarren, Feb 23, 2019.

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  1. Jellyfish 00

    Jellyfish 00 Well-Known Member

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    Looks like there is something hinder the writing like TotRL being suspended. Of course we are blessed for there are like GoR, unusual creature, and etc.
     
  2. AndyDarren

    AndyDarren Well-Known Member

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    I actually reading ccg and really enjoying it for those exact reasons but then Qidian hit me with dat paywall...

    I DID mention nationalism and racism but that was more generalisation that anything, however I don't know if you can count it as racism, but the black guys basically targeted the mc's female companion because she was a pretty "white girl" and they apparently sell well. The characters themselves, who were black, seemed to really emphasize on her 'whiteness'.
     
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  3. Jellyfish 00

    Jellyfish 00 Well-Known Member

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    Reading some title of KN like returnee, alone, solo and etc don't know how to react.
    As for JN isekai+slave, sigh makes you think what happening in K and J.
     
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  4. Asdq

    Asdq RSS FEED SECT! I WANT YOU FOR THE RSS ARMY!

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    But the case you said is truth.

    It's better, the original novels are enough about crying.

    Are you retardad? This is the truth, is not a isolated case. oh, I finally got, you are black.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  5. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    Makes you wonder that maybe Japanese men are fantasizing about elf sex slaves and that is why they are not marrying.
    To the idiots criticizing the thread creator, we do not live in a vacuum.
    Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
    I know Chinese girls in my college in New York who screamed when they saw a black dude...( I witnessed it a few times. It isn't hearsay)
    Look at Japan, I am starting to think that a little censorship or at least a quota to write real healthy stories is needed.
    deviant fiction creates a deviant society
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  6. Asdq

    Asdq RSS FEED SECT! I WANT YOU FOR THE RSS ARMY!

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    People, he is right. White girl being raped by subhuman "refugees" from Africa and Middle East at Europe is only a isolated case. Anything about this is racism, so please stop.

    Edit: Anything about rape increase after refugees is fake news of racists. FAKE NEWS!
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  7. mmsupreme

    mmsupreme How do I change my custom title?

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    My problem is that almost every single character is so over the top that it somewhat becomes annoying. it gets to the point where if a person is calm in a situation then he is either the protagonist or the greatest villain mankind has seen. i want more standard interactions that arent exaggerated to the nth degree or the villains to actually be smart in a situation without the bs time attack scenario for the mc. hell i want a arc where the main villain dies completely randomly and it does absolutely nothing to the mc and he is just dumbfounded to see all his enemies dead
     
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  8. Asdq

    Asdq RSS FEED SECT! I WANT YOU FOR THE RSS ARMY!

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    Are you idiot? The chinese novel are for chinese people. The same for animes that are for japanese. So, fuck off about the western world.

    The OP is just crying because he is black and want make the things as he like. Instead just stop reading chinese novels, he prefer create a thread and cry about.

    Finally someone talking about censorship. Oh, the people love censorship. Do you know what I love? I love the people being upset about what japanese make for japanese people.

    The people really forget that novels are for chinese people and want that this be shaped for them. So, I need remmember you about you are not the target public. Do you has some problem with anything? Deal with it or stop reading.

    That's beautiful. The old american thinking "Are you not acting like I like? Huhuh, you need of the democratization. No problem, I'll send you the democracy. By the way, free shipping.... Just kidding, you will pay for, obviouslly".
     
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  9. nobodyimportant

    nobodyimportant Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if Asdq posts make more sense before he runs them through google translate.
     
  10. kenar

    kenar ヽ(`・ω・´)ゝ

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    Not to mention the personal attack, hmm.
     
  11. Wayang Emperor The First

    Wayang Emperor The First 《The First Loli》《Cute Little Kid♡》

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    Read the one who create city in his/her story, work 100% free racism.
     
  12. rijimon17

    rijimon17 Hope you can read the words

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    Well it's not like racism is only in CN novels. Take these racist favourites for example. Mein kamph, the kkk handbook and more!! Call this number in the next twenty minuts and well also supply you with the complimentary Grand wizard action figure and 3-step burning cross assembly kit, but thats not all! For just one extra payment of $19.99 you can have 2! Thats right 2! Extra assembly kits! So remember the number is ***-***-****

    Also am I a worse person for doing this?
     
  13. Vudoodude

    Vudoodude Well-Known Member

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    The problem I have with the OP (won't speak for others) isn't that they're "not okay" with racism in CN novels, but because they list shit as racist when it really isn't that racist. The OP even says that the black gang members are written like a CN beta villain, which means it isn't even an issue of race but an issue of the CN author's bad writing or writing enemies like they always do but re-skinning it with a different race. Mind you, the OP's main issue with the subject seems to be the CN author's ignorance/stereotyping of other cultures, but I'd argue that these stereotypes are somewhat necessary. This will end up being a bit of an explanation so I'll put it aside:
    For starters, stereotypes often stem from truth although facts often get embellished or twisted to satisfy some sort of malicious purpose. For example, the stereotype of black people being gun-toting KFC/Watermelon loving gang members stem partially from the fact that a lot of ghetto-related gang members are black. While the circumstances that put them there have a lot to do with discrimination, slavery, and poverty, the fact remains that there is a lot of reinforcement behind this stereotype because an abundance of black gang members keep it reinforced. Is it right? No, and it's certainly unfair for the individual black person who hasn't touched a gun in his life, but that's how humans are, and that's how life is - unfair.

    When people think Canadians, they think Caucasian polite person drinking maple syrup, living in igloos, and having pet beavers. When people think American they think obese Caucasian fast-food eater toting guns and patriotism. When people think Arab, they think Brown-skinned turban wearing terrorist who oppresses women. Australians speak terrible English, British people have terrible teeth and drink tea, Irish people are drunkards, and Jamaicans have dreadlocks and love weed. These stereotypes exist for every race/nationality out there, as long as they are popular or well-known enough to form these generalizations. As for why, it's because in most cases, the stereotype is all you need.

    People aren't expected to know everything, in fact they will often specialize in one area (their career) while having a "common sense" knowledge of everything else. Unfortunately, for things to be common sense knowledge, the topic of choice has to be summarized in a short, general manner emphasizing on key points - AKA STEREOTYPES. This doesn't only have to be about nations or races, but can be about places (i.e. all you need to know about Hawaii is volcano and tropical islands to get a general idea of it), subjects (i.e. biology is about plants, cells, and living things), or items (i.e. a car has four wheels, uses gas, and drives fast). This also means that for nations and races, they also get summarized by their most prominent features (i.e. Japan is the land of samurais and anime, or that Germans are humorless people that eat schnitzel).

    Sure, if you are a person of said race/nationality, or are an avid fan of them, your understanding of the subject matter will be more robust and knowledgeable - but if asked to summarize that race/nationality you'll probably mention some stereotypes as well. As for everyone else who doesn't care or just has a passing curiosity on the subject matter, a stereotype will do. Now this is important to note because this is how stereotypes work, why stereotyping is used, and why it shouldn't be a big deal - stereotyping is a way for people to have a common understanding in a short amount of time. Whether one is the ignorant or the expert, they will still use stereotypes because it is an excellent way to get people on the same page without too much misunderstanding.

    For example, if an ignorant person was to ask an expert on Paris France, they would very much start with the Eiffel Tower, French culture (such as food) and how Paris is the city of romance. These are all generalizations that not only let the ignorant person understand Paris at a glance, but it also won't be contradicted (very much) when another person explains Paris. No sane person when asked about Paris France, would start with obscure historical events, modern political/social/economic strife, or start mentioning specific details about obscure backstreets or small shops. Doing this would not only lead to a high risk of contradiction when another person is asked, but it also creates a lot of confusion about Paris France that requires much more information. The stereotype is short, common, and is therefore familiar to most people, hence it is used a lot.

    Unfortunately, this means that when certain countries or races are depicted in literature (especially informal literature like web novels) stereotypes are HEAVILY used. On one hand, the author could be ignorant, but on the other hand the author has to be on the same page as the readers. The author does not have a lot of time or words to explain an in-depth true representation of Germany, nor are they particularly interested in doing so either. Instead, they are using the Germany setting with the stereotype in mind to quickly have the readers be on the same page, before explaining a few key details and continuing with the plot. Why explain Germany in a 10 billion word essay when most of the information would not be relevant, and stereotypes would suffice for the purpose of your story.

    This is also why an author may stereotype DESPITE being very knowledgeable about the subject. I've read some CN novels that actually knew very specific facts about Canada/USA as if they really have been there and seen it themselves, but they still stereotype. Why? Because the READERS won't be on the same page if they don't. If an author started talking about Canada and started talking about shootings, guns, and things of the like, the readers might think the author confused Canada with America, or that the author doesn't know a lot about Canada (despite Canada having shootings, and gun violence as well). A disconnect is created between the author and readers making the work seem confusing when in fact, it's correct. This is why authors generally use stereotypes and if it is not relevant/important, they won't correct that stereotype or may even reinforce it to use it for their plot.

    In summation, this is why stereotypes are used, especially in informal literature, and why it isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sure when authors use it to drive a political/racist agenda (i.e. nanking/Japan) it is racist and can ruin a series, and I understand why, but for the most part stereotypes are a quick and easy tool to create a new setting fast while having everyone on the same page.
    In the end, these novels are fictional pieces for entertainment, so there is no need to bore the readers with loads of historical information to correct the stereotypes. Instead, authors simply use these pre-existing stereotypes to make new plot points, even if it means writing the character with a CN beta villain personality, or writing villains as N***** beating rednecks.


    Next - "To actually see people spout bullshit like: "But so do westerners!" And "Asians are generally very racist, so its okay!" are the most idiotic things i have read in a long time...". The fact that you call it bullshit and that you think it is the most idiotic thing shows just how ignorant, self-centered, and self-righteous you are. I mentioned that Asians are racist not to justify it, but to admit it. Being from an Asian family myself, even my own parents say some quite racist things, but these racist comments come from ignorance - and that's why it's okay.

    I don't want to go on another huge rant, so I'll try to summarize. Not everyone grew up in the same circumstances, whether it is growing up in the same culture, or having the same opportunities. Not everyone got to go to high school or university, so a large majority of their understanding of the world comes from their own experiences. Unfortunately, their experiences are shaped by their culture. It is the media that shapes their opinions, their friends, their family, the experiences they have had. So it's understandable that they can be ignorant to other cultures and say racist things. Unfortunately, it is hard for a person to think outside of the box when they are literally inside of it. It is hard for a person to understand what they don't know. And ultimately, when they are being racist, often times it is out of fear or ignorance, not malice or genuine hate. This is why for a lot of Asians being racist, it's okay, it's because they literally do not have the opportunity or ability to know better.

    But *You* being the person that "supposedly" knows better, cannot understand their ignorance. You think people that defend them or justify them are idiotic bigots, when they are actually just empathetic people that understand the world on a wider view. They understand that other countries have different views, morals, and upbringings, so their viewpoints will conflict. They know that morality is not black and white, but that other countries will in fact have different concepts of good and evil. Once again, I can go on a huge rant about morality, and differing moralities, but it is getting late.

    My main point is, you are baffled that other people can defend someone being racist, but I am baffled by your inability to see beyond your own country. I am baffled by your inability to understand that other countries do not have the same rights and privileges, that Chinese internet may be heavily censored, or that the information available there may be very different from over here. I am surprised that someone who can supposedly act so righteous and correct, is unable to understand the ignorance of others, especially those from a more restrictive and aggressive country/culture. And that's what bothers me the most.

    What bugs me the most, is despite knowing about Chinese censorship, China's heavily illiterate/uneducated population, and aggressive culture, you still find it proper to point fingers and shout racism. It bugs me that you are okay with being offended by this when they are much less knowledgeable or free-thinking as you, nor do they possess the same access to internet and knowledge as you do. And it really bugs me that when people actually do (attempt) to understand their situation/their ignorance, and support them, you can look down from your high horse and judge.

    You judge that all racism is bad, and that being so is inexcusable. You judge that defending racism or justifying racism is inexcusable, but what do you base this on!? You are so certain of your moral standpoint that there is only right and wrong, and that you are unable to even understand why others would think differently. But you don't realize that being ignorant is not a sin. Being flawed is not a sin. Being human is not a sin. Having a different moral standpoint is not a sin. We are all humans, unique and flawed in our own ways, and limited by our own views and mortality. Our circumstances and environment that we grew up in are all different, so our thoughts and viewpoints will be different as well. Because of this, the one thing I've found in life is that most things are never truly right or wrong. Even murder can be right, even racism can be defended, and even ignorance can be forgiven.
     
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  14. AndyDarren

    AndyDarren Well-Known Member

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    Again, when I talked about racism, I was not referring specifically to this particular occurrence but was generalizing base on what I've seen from many other similar novels, though I won't deny that some people, maybe even myself, will take it as racism. My main point in this thread was about how this type of writing can make readers uncomfortable and turn them off from reading further. For instance, I'm not Japanese and I don't idolize the Japanese either yet there were at least 2 instances where I was enjoying a novel and was offput from reading it further because of the rather blatant disrespect towards the Japanese displayed by the author, same with Americans even though I'm not particularly a huge fan of America recently. I'm not here to start a huge debate about all these topics, I'm just trying to express something that ruins the reading experience fr me in CN novels, no need for all the political stuff. I have no idea what life is like in China but at the same time I'm entitled to my opinion and my opinion is that just because something exists in the real world doesn't mean everyone has to be ok with the way in which you incorporate it in your work, cuz let's face it, the moment you put your stuff online for people to see, your audience automatically goes from regional to global. A lot of Asian novels are being licensed for translation to be presented to foreign audiences whether free or at a cost so it would benefit everybody if your work is something that as many people as possible can be happy with.
     
  15. Raneday

    Raneday Not Rane

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    already dropped that novel ages ago
     
  16. Kutaifa

    Kutaifa Pokémon trainer

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    You know i actually wanted to finish the rant you posted, that is until i read this:

    "Next - "To actually see people spout bullshit like: "But so do westerners!" And "Asians are generally very racist, so its okay!" are the most idiotic things i have read in a long time...". The fact that you call it bullshit and that you think it is the most idiotic thing shows just how ignorant, self-centered, and self-righteous you are. I mentioned that Asians are racist not to justify it, but to admit it. Being from an Asian family myself, even my own parents say some quite racist things, but these racist comments come from ignorance - and that's why it's okay."

    Really? Are you serious?
    So, what you are implying is that racism is okay, when the other party is ignorant?
    Dude, you are a POS and everything you just wrote gave me fking cancer. God damn.

    If you actually believe this nonsense, then i guess the KKK is a perfectly fine organisation, because they actually believed the racist shit they spout, which is out of "ignorance" of course.

    Ignorance doesn't justify racism in any way. Instead of actually telling your family that they shoudn't talk like that, you actually approve by staying silent and justifying it by saying that it's ignorance.
    Get help.
     
  17. Vudoodude

    Vudoodude Well-Known Member

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    I can understand that sometimes the CN novels can be off-putting (that's why I mentioned 9 heavenly thunder manual before, it was REALLY off-putting), my main point is to say that there are plenty of reasons for everything in the world that may not be so obvious, so just don't take it so hard. Reading should be fun, if it's not then drop it and move on, don't dwell on it. Of course, your also entitled to your own opinion, but you should know that when you state it, people are going to give counter-arguments, or give their opinions, because after all they are now a part of your audience. And that's how discussions should be, after all it wouldn't be a discussion if everyone agreed on everything, it'd just be a circle-jerk.

    And for the sake of another opinion/thought, I want to mention though that I find people (mostly in the west) have a very selfish attitude recently, selfish in a way that they over-inflate their own worth or value (even I am guilty of this). A common example to this are celebrities commenting on world events (mind you they do have a fan base so their opinions do "matter" more in terms of influence), but this doesn't mean that their opinions are necessarily right or that they should even be stating them. A good example of this is Jenny McCarthy and her anti-vax movement. It has seriously done a lot of harm to the world, but people seem to think "oh she's entitled to her opinion". Well, this is what her opinion brought about. This is what happens when a person with influence pretends to be an expert on a subject when they're really not.

    But that aside, my other point is that we seem to think that just because we read something, we're entitled to have an opinion about it, criticize it, or even believe that the author should change it to better make everyone happy - but by everyone we really mean us and everyone who agrees with us. That somehow, reading a novel - translated from another language - written in another country - for another audience - is justification for us to have a dictating opinion on how others should do things. That we have a "right to complain" about something that once again, was made for another audience - written in another country - and translated from another language. This is what I mean by selfish, that somehow the world revolves around us, what we believe, or how we think things should be. I won't go on a huge rant about "the good ol' days" and how "millennials are sissies (because I'm in the millennial age group) but instead of just accepting things for the way they are people really do complain a lot more.
     
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  18. AndyDarren

    AndyDarren Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you for the most part however I still believe that everyone has the right to voice their opinion. I was enjoying a novel until suddenly something occurs which really struck a nerve for me. Am I going to march right up to the author and demand that so and such be change to my liking? No, that would be ridiculous. However I am well within my rights to vent my frustrations in the form of a complaint. No one has to agree with me or even give me the time of day and I'm pretty sure the author will never know I even existed, however the fact that I was able to let it out in a way that I was satisfied with is all that matters to me. Of course not everyone has to or is going to agree with my views and any replies I made in this thread were to correct any misinterpretations anyone had of what I said. It's called freedom of speech
     
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  19. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    Hahaha my post is filled with typos

    autocorrect got me defiant instead of deviant
     
  20. nucleair

    nucleair Active Member

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    /r/AsABlackMan
     
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