This has been floating in my mind recently. I am trying to reboot my novel (or short story) for a few months now and I found this site to be inspirational since there are lots of material and forums are a great way to get feedback. However, I am now hestiating due to some user feedback I am reading to some material relevant to my writing. Novel has a redemption theme so some characters will have to be shitty before they get to develop. What I noticed is readers seems to have little to no patient to development. When they hate a chatacter, its like set in stone. I usually love this kind of reaction but it seems they just focused on that part then affects their prespective of the whole story. And by association, the author gets blamed or bashed. I feel like its a lose lose situation. I was wondering if anybody has any exp on this and if you have, how you dealt with it. Personally I don't mind feedback unless its not constructive ie not helping the story. I got a lot from a friendly editor but I love variety of feedback. I hope I'm worrying over nothing but I take a lot of pride in my work and I just don't know how to cope if it happens. Thanks in advance for your replies.
Maybe mushoku tensei might be an example to look at? Lots of ppl don’t like the MC after all even now. Many drop the novel early or even after they do continue it they still don’t like Rudeus pervy moments. And If I rmb correctly the author had written a side story of MC doing the deed with half sister which was eventually deleted due to complaints from readers
Well, this is a difficult to answer because I don't know what your story is about and I don't know how well you write. One issue you may have to consider is the characters' motivations. Sure, your character can be douchy bc he's a bad person, but the audience should know and understand why the character reacted that way. So to establish the backstory of a 'bad' character, don't just state that he had a bad childhood, but bring the audience along and make then feel like they were in his shoes. The shield hero is a good example (but not perfect) This is just one example though.
Here's the thing, I myself have not ever formally written a novel, but I'm friends with people who have, and something they always tell me is that if you ever want your novel to reach a sizeable audience, you need to distance yourself from any criticism coming your way. There's no real 'metric' to do this by. You just need to get a critical eye for any criticism coming your way. You read it, analyse it, cross-reference it with your novel and react accordingly. It takes experience to know what criticism you should act on and what you shouldn't and there's no real shortcut for this. Just some advice here, sometimes even the most vile and aggravating of comments has something to add. Don't restrict yourself to listening only to polite people (though be ready to get dinner on in the most horredoues of ways for seemingly unimportant things) So for you specifically, if people are bashing your character development, you might wanna consider if you've done it well. Sometimes as an author, with the foresight of knowing what's going to happen, it can be easy to not realize how jarring some developments can be. Some advice for this is finding a like-minded beta reader (Really, I advice all authors to find a like minded beta-reader if possible, to explore your novel with). Another thing that might possibly be lacking in your story is foreshadowing. Many people don't realize this, but we really hate it when something occurs in an unpredictable way. Foreshadowing can be really simple too, it can be something as little as having the warrior who just razed down an entire village purposefully look away as his army pillaged it, or having your uber evil bad hesitate a little before he skewers the little girl looking for her mom. So yeah, hoped this helps. I wrote this on my phone and have large fingers, so forgive me if I made any typos.
Sorry, I've never been in that specific situation before, but I hope my thoughts can help somehow. About a character that needs redemption: if you want your readers to stay til the end and witness that character's change, you need something else to keep them there. It can be anything: a character that has likable traits despite the need for redemption, a side character the reader wants to see more of, intriguing plot development, etc. Making it clear in-story that the character needs redemption and hinting/foreshadowing that development helps, as well as actually having respectable side characters that assures the reader that your story isn't just a warped world where the MC is in the right despite his terrible character. About receiving discouraging feedback: Firstly, you have to understand and accept that you're going to meet readers who will love your work, and readers who don't. There's no way around that. When you get unhelpful criticism, it's going to suck. You're going to end up feeling terrible. But the more confidence you have in your work, the more you love it, the faster you can brush it off. Read it, and then put it out of sight. Don't look at them if it has a bad impact on you. Yes, if there's something worth considering in their criticism, you should seriously think about it. But it's just a bunch of unhelpful complaints, then throw it away. It's not going to help you in being a better author, a better person, or in having a healthier mindset. EDIT: Let me add one more thing. If writing a story the story you want to tell is your goal, then your first priority is to avoid burning yourself out. Read the comments that made you glad your wrote it. Find a way to remind yourself why you want to keep writing.
Rather than being hurt by this, it would probably be best if you took this as a sign to never again write a redemption type story. I have exactly once read a redemption story that I was able to finish, and that was David Weber's March Upcountry series. That's one of the most popular professional authors, and while the MC was a spoiled brat at the beginning, he was still basically a good person. Also, there were lots of other likable characters around him to lessen the impact. As for other stories, there have been several I tried to stick with because of good writing style and world building, but in the end if I hate the MC I just can't enjoy the rest of the story. Even if the author plans to change the MC for the better that takes time, and all the while I'm building up more and more hate for the MC. If the rest of the story is good, then I hate him even more for ruining it. Most of all, unless you're writing a forever weak MC, why does he deserve whatever OP power he's going to get? MC's getting stuff they never earned is something that bugs me, but I'll overlook it just because the weak to strong arc gets tiresome after you've read a dozen of them. What I can't take is some obnoxious piece of **** getting a cheat for no reason, particularly if he's stupid and/or lazy. I keep thinking of all the things a good MC could do with his cheat, while the stupid, lazy, obnoxious, infuriating, worthless piece of **** MC the author wrote is too busy cursing the heavens for not making him instantly OP just because he's a reincarnator. Basically, if you want people to like your MC, write a likeable MC. If you want people to hate your MC (and often you too) write a hateable MC. It's that simple.
If you haven't already, then maybe read Stephen King's On Writing. It is a really interesting, and frank description on his life as an author, and the highs and lows he experienced. (Including a descent into alcoholism). To me it was inspiring, and helpful in defining my mindset as a writer. Personally, it's been awhile since I've let others read my stories, or even written them really. (Long story including migraines that affect language, severe carpal tunnel, and no insurance). But, the last time I did I was really lucky. I had joined a writer group on Goodreads (several members are now published authors, one a NY Times bestselling author), and they were incredibly helpful. One person even went out of her way to point out how the logic of my story was wrong. But she did it in a helpful way. At that time, I was incredulous. How could something I spent so much time on be wrong? Wasn't the logic clearly presented in the story prior to that one section she had problems with? Of course it's different procedures! It's a different world! These thoughts all ran though my mind. But after I put some time between my initial reaction I understood her points, and she was right, my logic had fallen apart somewhere along the line. I believe someone has already said it, but there is a difference between constructive criticism and bashing. Unfortunately you will want the former, but will run into the latter. Best advice is to ignore it. It is easy to get caught up in the influence of your readers. Especially, if you are writing and publishing at the same time. Biggest mistake imo, the story can change as you write if it's already published then you're stuck with that logic, even if it is falling apart. Instead, write ahead or even complete the story first then find a group of people who will give you an honest critique, and not just one you want to hear. Then rely on them. If you don't want to write ahead maybe use a detailed outline if you're into that (I'm not), and stick to it. That way you have less chance of your logic failing. After all that, I may not have answered your question, but I hope it helps.
No matter what you write you will get bashing especially if you are planning to release it daily as a free online novel. You will be bashed for your characterscharacters, for your pace of srory development, lack of action, etc. This is because there are a large amount of idiots and trolls that have nothing better to do than try to convince authors and translator to give up due to abuse from ungrateful basta*ds. The safest way to avoid this is to release your story as a completed ebook on Amazon then you can limit bashing opportunities. But it can be done look at Overgeared that MC has to be a contender most unlike able MC ever yet many ppl managed to last 100 chapters for him to start to improve. Though that could have been helped by the fact we were told we would only need to survive 100 chapters.
Bashing is relative. You will rarely get a nice review out of me, but most of it will at least be on point. And given where I come from its unlikely I will point something out that is done well (me only roasting you over two points is a good review basically). In regards to redemption stories: A coldblooded bastard is "easier" on the reader than a shameless sex offender, for example. Some crimes are more easily forgiven. Just don't make your character all bad (and for fucks sake don't make them all great either). But, most importantly, don't make them boring. His negative actions should cause a good old case of instant karma. And most likely include long term implications as well. Make the character learn from it. Then make him change. My own characters all have their own strenghts and weaknesses. Paragons like Liur or Sylva might not suffer much from the usual problems a hero faces, but they still constantly battle their past. Likewise being demigods doesn't make them experienced parents either. Luana on the other hand is a paragon yet to be and suffers from other weaknesses. Constant distrust even in people she knows are unlikely to want anything but the best for her. A rather severe case of ptsd to make matters worse and extremely powerful mind magic which she might unconsiously unleash in a moment of (ungrounded) panic as last nail in the coffin.
Yes, but they went a step further. They harassed Ai-chan in email by calling Ai-chan a pedophile among others and said they had reported Ai-chan's novel to Amazon. Amazon already gave the go ahead and explicitly informed Ai-chan that there was nothing wrong with Ai-chan's story. Why? Because nobody had sex or even simulated sex anywhere in the story. Getting rating of 1 out of 5 is normal. There are plenty of people who can't write worth a damn but still envious of others who did better. Though Ai-chan believed it was quite likely rival authors on Royalroadl who gave Ai-chan the 1 stars on Amazon, because of the heavy competition and how some people never got their spotlight. When Ai-chan started writing Felicia's Second Life, Ai-chan had to dive into the mentality of a child because the protagonist is a child and therefore she has to have the bubble and silliness of a child. After being accused of being a pedophile twice by email, Ai-chan can no longer get into the mentality of a child. That's why Felicia's Second Life has not progressed. In your case, Ai-chan can only say that 'redemption' doesn't have to start from Day 1. You can start writing from Day 3005 and tell the story of the protagonist's douchebaggery through flashbacks following interactions with people from his past and locations that led to him going on a journey of redemption. There is no need to write a chronologically correct story.
Haters gonna hate. The import part is knowing which negative review is honest and which is just hate. Embrace the former and improve. Ignore the later and become a little wiser.
I took it as the sign of the fictions are finally getting popular. After all, you wouldn't have haters or 1-star ratings if it didn't get popular, would you? If you wanted to make a redemption story, then make the readers realised it or make it that the readers felt detached from the MC.
I would say that a bit of a problem today is that there is such a huge audience for WN/LN and with people reading them daily and having such a big repertoire to pick from most want stories that are easy to read and don't require any investment. To give an example I am giving Korean novels a real try lately and read The Second Coming of Avarice to give a short summary of the character development Spoiler The MC is a super badass in the first chapter then time turns back and we find out that he was a smart, responsible, handsome young man with a special power. But while testing out his super powers he becomes addicted to gambling and becomes humans waste literately, betraying/abusing his family and loving girlfriend for years. Then the story continues with him trying to turn a leaf and change Now the character development here is to my own opinion fairly short in that the MC goes from OP -> trash -> normal person -> OP. To be honest the character development part is actually not that long and in my own opinion not all that deep since it feels he way to easily and quickly changes his way. Now my point here is that the opening chapter depicts the MC as a bada** but quickly turns him into becoming a real douche for no apparent reason except invoking anger in the readers? Now some might argue that this was for character development however in my opinion starting of a character as trash that then develop into a decent human being is how to go about it instead of like in this case were the MC is OP *flip the table* MC is trash *flip the table* MC is OP. Having subtle developments or personality changes are all believable and relatable but having a characters personality change at the flip of a coin (a bit of an exaggeration) does nothing but almost always annoy a reader. Getting a bit sidetracked here but in short this story forces the reader to "commit" to reading a certain amount of chapters before the MC becomes what is promised/hinted at in the first chapter. Now the summary pretty much tells you a bit of what is to come, but readers are fickle saying A then delivering B in chapter 1 then A in chapter 2, makes people mad why there is A when it started with B even though they were told there would be A. So in short character development should in my personal opinion be done in a linear way in the start preferably like a staircase as in the characters personality is at it's lowest in the start then moves upwards. If it is later in the story the character may take 1-2 steps downward if something happens but having the character start at the lowest step again will incite readers. It should also to a certain extent be believable. I've noticed way to often lately how an author will create a believable world filled with characters only for the author doing something that is either because of forcing some plot, personal bias or whatnot. Now as someone who is an avid reader and trying at writing myself I really don't like this kind of behavior but I do understand it since I myself know how I want to develop my story, world and characters but even then one should not just do things for their own enjoyment since it might push away readers, this of course depends on if you want to make money/life of your stories or if your more like me who only writes as a side hobby so I don't have to care much, though it's always nice to hear comments about your story being good. Some examples of this. Spoiler One story was about an MC is a kid with previous knowledge so he acted and behaved adult like, but some how everyone else in the story also behaved like adults even though they were kids at about 7-8 years old, after comments about this a hastily added comment in the story mentioned how they were all adult for their age cause of their upbringing. Another was about a low administrator sending the MC to the middle of nowhere to prevent his growth and getting connections, even though the author had just mentioned powerful people asking for him, going for a meeting with the person in charge etc etc, but somehow the low administrator could just decide everything and no one went to check, there is more but basically the author simply forced the MC to go to that plot arc instead of making it believable or even follow their own setting up to that point. Lastly I'd like to add in a dozen different stories at least where I have found myself being given a picture of how the MC or another character is only for them act/behave completely different towards a character usually a love interest, now love makes us do crazy things but some are just apparent bias from the author that makes the character in question behave completely different from how the character should be. Also as mentioned by Ai-Chan above you don't have to throw everything out at once and can do stuff in parts or whenever really. Overall I feel a bit like I am ranting at this point but it is kind of hard to answer your question when so little information has been given, so I am simply trying to write in all the things that people might be bashing about that pops into my head Myself I can't really say if I've been bashed or not since I've never posted any of my stories online except parts that I would like some feedback/response to certain parts, but mostly when I've posted a chapter I've gotten response like fix your grammar or a comment I got on here "I would have liked if you explained in more detail how the lightning was created and traveled". I wouldn't really mind either if it wasn't for me asking about something completely different and people responding something that I never asked for.
Agree. I guess depending on the tone, delivery and the content of the message, a bashing can be a constructive criticism and vice versa. I have my moments when I mistook criticism for bashing and some who those who were on the other side going end didn't realise that the tone is bordering on the opposite side of the spectrum. I'm going to check that out. I don't mind people dropping novels or other content if they don't like it. Bu it rubs me as someone who is starting to be read some comments that basically want a do-over. Like, just go to the ones you like! Plenty of material to status you. They are some readers who really want something in a novel but they don't have the guts to do their own thing with their own twist. Thanks. will keep this in mind. I am thinking of a back-up character if I really cant pull it off. There are some readers who will might enjoy the 'ride' , the back story and whole enchilada. And there are some readers who just looks at the ending. I'm guilty of both so your tip really helps. I'll check out the examples you gave. Thanks! Nothing wrong if you hate the character. The author must have done a good job or you wont feel hatred for him. Thank thank you for the advice. This fills some gaps with what I am trying to do. I try to get my work (in whatever state it is) to as many people as possible because I love to pick on everyone's opinion about it. Your advice on critiquing the critique makes sense because I don't believe in yes-man but I also don't believe in feedback in form of rotten tomatoes (if you catch my figurative example here). I always look for middle ground but I do have my biases so this advice is really sound. Character development is something I really need help (especially for my shitty character) and thank God I have some people who can help in that department. But yes, the story could also support the character for his own development in the reader's eyes. I'm doing a back-up character or a revised character because I have the worst fears that my shitty character isn't gonna survive the wrath of the reader no matter how much development s/he goes thru. God, thanks for the advice. I'm not really planning to release my stories like the web novel or light novel style cos I learned in this place that some readers can be vicious. I will be taking the time to just really write it as best as I can and if I can publish, I can say I made a part of my dream. By reading on some forums here, the ungrateful kind can be out of this world. Thanks for the tip re: redemption stories. I understand that your point that characters need a balance and right now, I'm trying to strike the right one. I don't want them to be really bad that nobody likes them (or even understand to be like them) and I'm not a fan of Mary Sues or hero types. I actually lean on characters with a shitty side because I found them interesting...which is the current dilemma on writing the aforementioned shitty character. Hence, also wondering if readers will stick up to read on how and why my shitty character will change. Also big thanks for sharing your characters. If you have anything published, let me know so I could show support (even a moral one!). Man, that is horrible...and that is something I was kinda hoping not to happen. I hope that you can overcome this somehow because it's really frustrating to hear author being harassed just to write their their story. Thanks for the tip. I never thought anything like it and it might just give my shitty character a chance. Stay strong! I hope so. *crosses fingers* You have a point. But I much prefer an audience that appreciates the journey I created for the characters, rather than hating them just because s/he was shitty on the first Chapter. detached form the MC...hhhhmmm... Thanks for the tip. i think the talk of investment rings true to may readers here as a lot like spoilers. I like spoilers myself but only to a certain extend (or my interest is already killed). I really don't mind constructive comment like Grammy, pacing, development. What I can't stand is the likes of 'this is stupid' because I don't have any idea on what is 'stupid' to them. it's very subjective and for me, doesn't really help. Anyways, thanks for the long post and got me thinking a lot of things.
It depends on how things go, usually if there is an element you know people don't like, you fill it in with other stuff to string things along. Web novels are not like normal novels, so people's patience is a lot different. Not to mention, there is always a matter of how something is released. For example, when I first started writing my novel, the early readers who read 1 chapter at a time were upset one of the early characters died. I released 3 chapters a week so people spent quite a few days with the character, but later readers who read the novel as a whole, most of them didn't like the character and were happy they died. The opposite reactions is precisely how the reader took in the content, those who slow read due to releases fantasized about this and that, but when their expectations were betrayed, they were upset. It wasn't the character themselves but their expectations. The ones who read through the thing as a whole had no time to get attached to characters or set expectations and read it more objectively. So their reaction to the characters death were more positive. This is also why when there is tragedy, I try to do a mass release to get past it and not leave readers contemplating that tragedy and move on. So again, if there is elements that are important to the story but you know readers won't like it, then move the readers attention elsewhere as the story evolves in the background. On that note, keep in mind the end of the chapter is more important in than the beginning, if you want to get something people don't like, get it out of the way in the beginning and move on towards the end. Because things that happen towards the mid end have a greater impact on people's mood of the story.