A new group, hands already covered with dirt and blood (Drama Alert)

You mention something which I find interesting that no one has confronted KCDS on.

Did he really pull them into the project without informing them?
Because my first TLDR clearly stated that Neria asked KCDS whether he could bring in a team(100 white salts) to assist him on the same day he had this idea and asked 100 white salts whether they were interested. I also stated that KCDS had tentatively agreed to his suggestion.

I will not deny that the way Neria worded this probably gave KCDS a completely different idea from what 100 white salts actually was and would have affected his decision had KCDS known the actual scale of the team, but I believe this constitutes as asking for permission to bring the said group in, with permission from KCDS himself.

 

pat pat Things will get better. Good luck!

 

I thought it was like a kind of "study group" giving some helping hand and moreover, I was told they wouldn't be uploading anything and I thought it was part of the friends he had to help him in secret, like an anon group. I had no clear idea about it and I wasn't told further, just being confused. And then things changed. There, I'm also at fault not having stopped and refused such thing and keep everything internal but I didn't want to confront the TL and let things go + I was abroad and dealing with stuffs and life issues so I didn't think further.

But it was first clearly stated they will not upload and they were supposed to have their work on google drive only. That was what I was being told until they gradually changed their words.

 

Yes, as I said earlier the way Neria worded it most likely gave you a horrendously different picture of what they were. I won’t comment on the rest you said as they did happen, and debating it too deeply on why and how it happened does nothing.

However, my main point is that there was mention of the group to you. And you DID agree to it. So unless you can tell me that this is wrong and why, or that for any reason I have not discovered inside the chat logs that rendered this particular evidence moot, you cannot keep claiming that Neria “brought in a group without informing you”, because he did inform you, AND gained your permission to do so.

 

You start by admitting KCDS was horrendous misinformed by Neria, then finish by saying KCDS was informed and gave permission for 100WS to act. Those are mutually exclusive.

Either KCDS was fully informed of the correct details and agreed to what eventually transpired, or KCDS was horrendously misinformed and could not have possibly given permission to Neria and 100WS to act as they did.

So which is it? Or does context not matter, and once initial permission is given the goal posts can be moved however you want?

 

Exactly, I thought we wanted to bring individuals over in the group but as to form a team inside a group, like brining friends to form a dream team inside a group/company. If I knew he'd be bringing a whole other group, I would just have said no. But then things changed gradually and then became to late.
So no, I didn't agree on another group but more like a team inside my group to be formed leaded by TL but agree as of sort as I thought it was his way to do work so and also that it might be something new. When things changed and I knew it was actually a group, it was too late so I tried to get along but then their plan was not to get along to begin with.
From my perspective, it was like "I wanna bring some friends, form a study group to help me for this project" and nothing like "I want to bring another school in this project".

 

I did not say he was misinformed. I said that the way that Neria worded it to KCDS would probably give KCDS the wrong picture.
However, what Neria had requested and informed at the time was true, which is bringing in a team that has been assisting him with other projects, to assist him in SSS as well. It is on KCDS for not asking further on the full details of the team that was being brought in and just agreeing on the spot.

In regards to the other actions that the group that was made after, that was due to miscommunication and a whole lot of other stuff that I don’t want to go into. I have asked Neria, and it is up to you to believe this, but his only intention when broaching this subject to KCDS was literally only to help speed up and better the quality of his translation.

Edit:also, please remember that I am only contesting on KCDS claiming on not being informed on Neria bringing in a group without his knowledge. What the group after going in may not be what KCDS agreed on, and that is where there is either miscommunication or salts is doing something bad. However, I am not contesting this. I am contesting only on this claim that KCDS is making: not being informed of groups being brought in. There was a clear black and white request for them to be brought in. And he agreed.
To continually insinuate that Neria did not inform him before bringing in the group would then be false information.

 

Well that intention became something very different later on.
And that's the problem.

 

yes it did. But it still does not change the fact that you were informed and you have granted permission. I understand that you feel that Neria didn’t tell you properly, intentional or not, but it is your responsibility to understand the scale of any personnel that is being brought into your own territory and decide whether they be allowed entry or not before making said decision, so to speak.
I will not debate further on initial intention, as this cannot be confirmed in any way and can only be based on the belief of any of the three parties involved.

 

I understand what you mean but I still can't agree on the granted permission because I agreed on something else than what became.
Seriously, if somebody changed on what was initially understood and agreed, you are okay with that? With what you are saying, it's your responsibility if anything of such happens. What are agreements for then? If the other party keeps changing without your agreement, then that's not agreement anymore and that's not granted anymore. I did agree on an initial thought that it was a team he'd be forming to support him but I did not agree what happened later. Also, even when it had quickly worsen, I didn't abruptly stopped TL and the other group as I didn't want to wage war and wanted to solve in an amiable way, something that was shoved into me, different from what I had expected and agreed upon.
So no, it is wrong to say I granted permission as it was no longer valid but then the big mistake I did was to try keeping on track a train going uncontrolled. I should just have stopped the train when I saw something started to smell fishy. Btw, even if you say you are trying to be neutral, pushing on me something you assume in my stead on a few occasions make me start to get dubious...Unless I'm mistaken.
But cheers.

 

Everything you said is correct. I am, and only am, disputing your claim that you had absolutely no knowledge of the group being brought in. You were informed. To say you were not is false. I understand your stand that the original scale and intention of the team was different then what you expected, but this by itself is unrelated to the fact that you have knowledge of this group brought in by Neria and informed of.

I will agree on your stand that the permission became void after weird shit started happening. However, this doesn’t change the fact that initial permission was still granted. At best, you could only say that Neria brought in a group on my knowledge, but then started to take actions contrary to what we agreed on. Your initial permission and knowledge of the group being brought in exists. It’s indisputable.

I cannot be completely neutral, nobody can. However, I am striving as much as possible to be impartial on this matter, and I still personally feel that I am not on anybody’s side.

I have already found faults and criticised all three parties severely, especially on Neria, this I believe you have seen. If you still do believe I am unfairly leaning on one side just because of my contest on this claim which I believe to be false, then I don’t think I can do much to persuade you otherwise.

 

Well, thank you for being honest. As said, I was just dubious as some people pretend being "neutral" but keep on false claims or fallacies to sneakily slander me. I'm not saying I have done nothing wrong but I still have to prove my points.
You are right in saying I wasn't totally uninformed but the thing is what started initially and what ended up was so different, the process in between can be considered as uninformed because that wasn't what I had been informed nor asked before they did go on further + I had not agreed on applying changes as the changes came and then I somehow had to just let things go to avoid troubles.
I hope you understand what I meant this way.

 

i understand. I don’t agree on parts of it, but I understand and accept your take on it.

 

i understand. I don’t agree on parts of it, but I understand and accept your take on it.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for your understanding. Well, it's okay even if you don't agree on all points as I had proven my points and said what I had to say.
I guess this was an opportunity to clarify my stance and tell more about things.
And all my respect for your effort on trying to be neutral and impartial as I know that's something hard.

(Btw, many thanks to people supporting my group and me, can't thank you enough).

 

Congratulations on deep-sixing a fledgling translation group.
Reading through this whole thing, I can see how the new translator went wrong for not being clear, and the other group got hosed by this drama. I wouldn't be surprised if they stopped.

After reading this over and over again this is how I see it:

1. New translator joined your group
2. Pretended to work for your group? How can it be pretend when they obviously translated things, without much material support or editors from your group.
   1. The fact that the translator was saying they waited on you for a month, that just saps someone's motivation to continue. Of course if someone is strung around for a while, they would look for other options. Fan translations, particularly when a translator is not asking for credit relies heavily on motivation.
   2. When an employee/or someone that joins a group goes in with an expectation of agreement. Basically, they went and worked for you, but you didn't provide them with the materials and support to do anything, just by that you lost the moral high-ground.
   3. They had to go to another group for help shows that your group has been derelict in your own agreement.
   4. They themselves got their own raws to keep going.
3. New group comes in, and helps.
4. Tries to work with you so that translated releases can go in both sites, with two different formats.
5. New group provided editors, and materials, which your group failed to provide.
6. You start whining about being jipped, and not having your name up top, even if you did not provide much support to begin with.

This is similar to a case of a jilted lover. Guy is complaining that someone went behind their back, glossing over that they have been ignoring and not providing for the other person's needs.

Why would someone keep working with you when they are not provided adequate assistance that was agreed upon to begin with?
I understand that Neria decided to look for other options which you don't like, but you are completely ignoring the reasons they did that to begin with. That is just unprofessional(not that I expect professionalism here any way).

Yeah they acted shady, but looking at things, it didn't seem like you gave them a choice. I like what you guys do, but this drama was unnecessary especially now that they removed the novel from their site.

This just made all of the parties involved look bad. Since you're the one who first came out to complain, you are the one I get to address about where you yourself have played a large part in the situation at hand.
Just my impression of the whole thing. Not a big deal, for the most part I like your work, I just didn't think there was a need for this escalation.

Any way, congratulations on sinking a new group when this whole thing could have been avoided if the agreed upon translator support was provided to begin with.

 

From what Ive read, kcds did offer a form of assistance to the translator though I might be wrong in that regard.

 

From what I read, they did. Took a long time though, and if someone is motivated to move forward, lag time can put a quick damper on things.

Still, I maintain that they could have worked it out, outside of public view. This was an unneeded escalation, meh, to each their own.
That was my impression from reading all the material here, and I'm not saying WS and Neria are not at fault as well, just that there is a lack of self-awareness here from the one who launched the initial complaint.

Hopefully they can work through this.

 

From what I read, KCDS provided the support that was asked for and possibly extra. If Neria needed more, it wasn't communicated properly, so how would KCDS know to help more? Neria then, most definitely on purpose, mislead KCDS about the true size and nature of 100WS when bringing them in. 100WS then proceeded to try and take the lead role from KCDS, poaching* Neria and then shutting the door on KCDS with a very snotty, faux-legal reply essentially stating that they get priority on everything or no deal.

Neria agreed to (paid) work for KCDS, felt disgruntled about a perceived lack of assistance, didn't try to resolve it with KCDS, then used 100WS as a scapegoat and shield to try and destroy KCDS' work on the project. That's very shitty behaviour and, like I've said in a previous comment, sets a very bad precedent for Neria's and 100WS' future actions if they are allowed to get away with it. They must face consequences for how they did this. KCDS is entirely justified on calling them out, otherwise no one would know and they'd be free and tempted to do it again.

*maybe poaching is the wrong word, but Neria jumped ship to 100WS after going dark on KCDS and not properly quitting, and 100WS took Neria in and defended them despite the clear betrayal of trust and show of treachery. I honestly don't know how 100WS think they can trust Neria after this, but that's a separate problem.

 

@kobatochandaisuki
Apologies for side-tracking the topic, what happened to the other KR? translator from Singapore? that went for his compulsory-conscription-military services?

 

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