Discussion Another random though

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by AzureZero, May 17, 2019.

  1. AzureZero

    AzureZero Well-Known Member

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    So I had a random thought, u know the kind that you get while bathing. Yea... Anyway, I was thinking of what little knowledge of quantum physics that I know like that things can exist or not exist till being proven. Anyway so based on that logic then doesn't the whole univeserse exist due to belief? Like the only reason that we know that the universe exist is due to our belief of things that we have seen or heard or basically our 5 senses. But in the end the only way we can be sure is true the belief that you or others have that it really exist isn't it? Like hundreds of years ago people wouldn't have believed the world was smaller than the sun but now since we can observe it deeper or through research done by others that we have knowledge of it. Another example of belief is of one another. Usually we belief others that things exist or have certain properties due to research that was completed and that they have so and so proof. Anyway, yea... So it's a random thought on my behalf. If you read till here,Thanks for listening to my rant
     
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  2. otaku31

    otaku31 Well-Known Member

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    Well... b4 proving the sun to be larger than the earth, we needed to be aware of the existence of the sun itself- something that only happened cuz of our sense perceptions. The 5 senses/observations r primary; that's where we start from, that's what we rely on... to prove things that we can't sense???

    Belief is often attributing some convenient reason (which is held to be true) to some observable/perceivable phenomena without going too deeply into the cause/process... I think?
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  3. lnv

    lnv ✪ Well-Known Hypocrite

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    Let me ask you a question, what is 2 + 2 * 2 ?

    If you can answer this, I will clear up your confusion.
     
  4. Deleted member 155674

    Deleted member 155674 Guest

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    Do you know the 'The elephant theory'?
    That's what you are doing now mate
    Ps: Some cultures and religions actually knew that and more about the universe millennials ago and current knoledge still can't prove many things or how ancient men got such knowledge (like the sun being bigger than the earth and that the earth turns around the sun and not the other way around...)
     
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  5. Catfish

    Catfish Well-Known Member

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    The number of years an anti-vax child has to live
     
  6. Bad Storm

    Bad Storm no thought, head empty

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    What little knowledge I have about quantum physics got all muddled up after reading this...

    The thing about quantum mechanics is that it deals with very small particles. In our ordinary lives, these small differences between what we know about the world and how the world actually works is not significant enough to whisk out the whole universe out of existence.


    ...Or something. I'm just trying to sound legit here.
     
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  7. Kuroguma

    Kuroguma [Cyber Lich] [Aspie] [SOX][Forgotten Perv]

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    You can't write belief without lie.

    ps. also
     
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  8. Bright_Lucky_Star

    Bright_Lucky_Star [Previously Known as OrdinaryUser] The Blessed One

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    I must go home, I'm drunk right now:blobpeek:
     
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  9. WinByDying

    WinByDying I can count to four

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    That is not at all what quantum superposition means. Quantum physics is about probability. Not probability that something exists, because e.g. particles are measurable, but probability on e.g. where it exists. Probability on properties of a particle.

    For example, let's take an electron and spin. Conventionally, we'd say it has either +1/2 or -1/2 spin, and the superposition is a*1/2-b*1/2. If a particle is in superposition, namely we haven't measured the property we're looking at (electron spin), then it is in all properties at the same time. How? Well, could be that (a,b)=(0,1), or (0.5,0.5) or (1,0) or everything in between, it's all be possible. However, each of these states has an associated probability according to a probability distribution.

    Hope that clears your confusion up. Everything does exist, but we're not always sure about how it exists, what the properties of e.g. a particle are.

    Science only requires one core axiom: believing in what humanity can observe. But hey, if you don't take that for granted then you belong in a mental asylum.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  10. WinByDying

    WinByDying I can count to four

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    Also, be careful about drawing parallels between on small, particle scale and large scale, e.g. a cat. Quantum principles don't work the same way for these larger, e.g. furry systems. As in, our furry gods consist of many particles. A cat is not alive and dead at the same time, and Schrödinger's cat was meant mockingly, as a derogatory joke about quantum mechanics.
     
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  11. Lazriser

    Lazriser Well-Known Member

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    Halt thee Cronus, beget Zodiac mine Iscariot's Inferno.

    See what cannot be seen with knowledge~ this accumulation of knowledge foretells the promise of wisdom~ hear ye, hear ye~ our horizons split to infinite seas~ so as the mountains pillar the boundaries of the skies~ the unseen become seen~ our unknown known~ apocalypse of promised eyes has come!

    I tell you, what modern civilization can accomplish is calculate the hidden mechanics of the universe. If there is nothing to calculate, it is either virtually impossible to perceive, therefore beyond our means to validate it's existence, or it itself is imaginary, and by default, invalid to exist.

    I, the Pages, have answered your questioned soul. May your curiosity seek me in paths to come and diverge.
    I have a question, a serious one. Is it possible to achieve or observe zero energy within quantum realms? By this, I mean the energies of the universe decay to inactivity or nothingness. There was the theory of sub/atomic decay, and this made me wonder~ I by no means, am knowledgeable in this field of science, much less understand the terms correctly, for I know only what I know. If you be so kind to answer my question, please do so as you will.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
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  12. WinByDying

    WinByDying I can count to four

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    Let's take another perspective. Particles, whether the typical atoms or the carriers of one of the four fundamental forces, everything can be described as (part of) a field. That's an important concept in quantum physics. All different types of field, whether they're matter, related to a fundamental force (e.g. electromagnetic radiation) are all defined at every point in the universe. So take a point around an atom. Is it inside the orbital of an electron? Then there's a probability that the electron is there and as such the electron field has a specific value in that point, matching the probability that it's there. Pick a point, one of the infinite possible points, and it has lots of values associated with it. Another example is gravity. We experience gravity from the earth, so the gravitational field has a value too.

    The core concept here is that everything, even "vacuum", has these properties, all these values, all the fields are thus defined even in points in vacuum. How do we obtain values for these fields? Well, we describe everything in existence as quantum harmonic oscillators. This is a quantum twist on the typical harmonic oscillator, a famous system from classical physics, and this quantum harmonic oscillator has discrete energy levels. However, if you calculate the energy of that oscillator, it can never be zero ... because the function can't be zero. It's a form of an exponential. As such, there is a lowest, discrete energy level for these fields.

    In modern cosmology (Lambda-CDM model), vacuum energy is widely associated with the cosmological constant, dark energy, and it's the cause of the accelerating expansion of spacetime. Fun fact, there's still an unsolved problem: the calculated values for vacuum energy don't match the measured expansion of the universe by a humongous factor. It's called the cosmological constant problem.

    That's my understanding. I've had some basic quantum physics and am a bit of an enthusiast, and I'm able to cook up these answers by combining what I know with reading Wikipedia. Not ideal, but what I'm saying should be correct. Approximately.
     
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  13. Lazriser

    Lazriser Well-Known Member

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    So quantum 'zero' is nigh impossible, but what about conversion via entropy and nuclear reaction, making everything in the universe dark matter and dark energy only as a singularity?

    I know dark matter is what makes shape of matter, and dark energy expands the universe. So rather than zero energy, it should be more accurate to say, can we virtually make the universe 99% dark and 1% observable, hence the 'zero' I desire?
     
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  14. Ddraig

    Ddraig Frostfire Dragon|Retired lurker|FFF|Loved by RNG

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    Actually that was just Europe's problem....
     
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  15. AzureZero

    AzureZero Well-Known Member

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    6?
     
  16. AzureZero

    AzureZero Well-Known Member

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    This has been fun and I have learnt much from most of you guys. Thanks for entertaining my random thought. Thank you
     
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  17. userunfriendly

    userunfriendly A Wild Userunfriendly Appears!

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    Besides, there’s the inherent circular logic in the first post...

    If the universe is exists because of our belief in it, then how could we exist, because without the universe, we would not exist?

    :p