Japan It's Not Funny Anymore

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Wujigege, May 19, 2019.

  1. Lushwf

    Lushwf Well-Known Member

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    I'm just basing this off of what I've seen over years of media consumption, and not any one genre in particular, though I guess where it concerns WN there would be more of this. If you look back 10 years or more you can see a notable shift towards certain artstyles and focus, it's not just novels but anime and manga in particular.
     
  2. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    Oh no, I wasn't talking about the complaints about One Piece, while I personally think One Piece is better than Dragon Ball, my problem was more along the lines of...
    He says anime is a bunch of shit pandering to perverts and pedophiles, I say he is looking at the genres aimed towards teenage boys instead of looking at genres aimed at literally anyone else.

    It's the same problem as most people that complain about Japanese Novels on NUF, they complain about them but refuse to look at literally anything else aside from Shounen Harem. They should just read Kenkyo for heavens' sake.
    Yes it is one genre in particular. Try finding what you want while excluding Shounen, Ecchi and novels on School Setting. You'll discover it's extremely easy to do so.

    It just so happens that the most popular genre is shounen and ecchi is common on shounen, your years of media consumption are biased by the fact you're looking at the most popular genre the most.

    I'll say it again, go look at shoujo, suddenly the fanservice of cleavages and super short skirts will suddenly disappear.
     
  3. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    I totally understand but to me the point still stands. Mainsteam anime is dominated by pervert anime.
    There is a reason we dont see things like Black Lagoon and Cowboy Bepop anymore
    The cost is probably the biggest issue though
     
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  4. Lushwf

    Lushwf Well-Known Member

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    Alright I guess that's a fair point, then maybe I'll reword what I originally intended to say. That is that in those genres as you've just mentioned these very things: the unnecessarily? skin tight clothing that shows off every curve, even on armour I mean come on?... Are they super heroes in comics? No they're often portrayed as children or minors.

    The main point I have to make is that it's gotten well past ecchi, almost to the point of hentai/pr0n, and that this is by an large condoned in their media and considered normal. This is a bit disturbing because it reflects societal values, since it's just something you can just go pick up in a store, not in some r18 restricted section. Publishers are eating this stuff up, based on how many novels we have translated here in that style, how many more go unknown to us?
     
  5. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    Oh, I don't deny that the mainstream stuff is filled with the problems highlighted.

    But that doesn't discredit anime as a whole, which is my main problem with his statement. It just means he needs to search for new genres to look at, all anime seasons always have different stuff to cater to different audiences after all~

    If he worded himself in a way that didn't generalize his statement and instead aimed his complaint at the mainstream things, I'd have no qualms about it~
    Well, I personally dislike the fanservice, but I don't think it's a real problem.

    As in, I'd buy the part of reflecting societal values if Japan had a really high rate of pedophiles assaulting minors and/or had lax laws about pedophilia, but... It's the opposite? They are super strict against people that have porn involving real minors or assault children and their number of incidents related to minors is super duper small.

    So uhn... I don't think this excessive fanservice is doing anything bad? It turns me off and I dislike it, but it's not harmful AFAIK, so I don't think it's a problem?

    At the end of the day, if one doesn't like it, they can just look at the genres that aren't filled with this stuff.
     
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  6. Lushwf

    Lushwf Well-Known Member

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    With all seriousness you're going to tell me Japan doesn't have a MASSIVE problem with pedophiles, have you lived under a rock in ignorance for most of your life despite obviously consuming a lot of their culture?

    Edit: It's this whole I like anime, manga, games, novels, so Japan art holier than thou and can do no wrong attitude that people need to check.

    2nd Edit: Before I sound like a nasty hostile hypocrite, I'm obviously here on NU and NUF and other sites so I do enjoy these novels, even harem novels in the past...distant past. I'm not solely biased towards enjoying the cultural exports of any one continent, let alone country. I do enjoy many things from Japan, I just look at it without rose tinted glasses.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
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  7. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    I wont necessarily say that it reflects societal values, it just normalizes marginal behavior.
    Japan has a sexless society due to media creating a pretty unrealistic culture.
    Legal lolis do not exist, no woman will go around saying Goushinjosama.
    Publishers are simply targetting 100 otakus who will spend thousands of dollars on limited release overpriced instead of trying to sell to the general public who might not be repeat customers
     
  8. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    Japan legal system is a joke, Japanese say it themselves. You do not trust reports.
    Sex crimes are grossly underreported in even less conservative countries like the US
    You are underestimating the depravity of Japanese culture
    https://www.asiancrush.com/japan-di...rope-high-school-girls-standardized-test-day/
     
  9. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    Yes, I will.

    I did some quick search just now, here is what I found:

    According to https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...d-child-abuse-across-japan-2018/#.XOMZ0qR7nIU , 258 children were sexually abused in Japan during 2018.
    According to https://www.pbc2019.org/protection-of-minors/child-abuse-on-the-global-level , 1 in every 10 children are sexually abused in the US. (apologies for the lack of an actual number, I didn't find one and this is the 3rd site I'm looking at. It should be safe to say that 1 in every 10 isn't a good number for how many assaults occur in a single year)
    Judging from this article https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47377889 on the other hand, it seems that from 2014-2018, there were 4500 cases of abuse in immigrant children on the US, which amounts to about 900/year... Sure, US's population is way bigger than Japan's, but we're talking about immigrants only here, not even touching the children that were born in the US.

    So no, I don't think Japan has a massive problem with pedophiles.
    Yeah, it's true that this whole loli-related culture might have a strong impact on the problem of birth in Japan.

    On a side note, I got back to reading the article, and the guy apparently has a problem with the fact he needs to say "Good Morning" out loud every day when he enters the office? Uhn... What's the problem with that? It's not a big deal to say Good Morning, is it?
    I'll take a look at that too I guess, I had no info on their legal system.
     
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  10. Lushwf

    Lushwf Well-Known Member

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    "...Okay, here's one mostly related: In many Japanese offices, you're required to scream "Good morning!" at the top of your lungs, clapping your hands to your thighs, as soon as you enter the office area every morning. Everyone in the office then shouts "Good morning!" back to you. At my orientation for one company, the Human Resources Girl — whose face (figuratively) literally screamed "Hall Monitor" — was going over the "Good Morning!" protocol. Her explanation weird despite its terseness: "This is how adults interact in Japan." Most of the people at the orientation, like me, were under twenty-five. "Before we move onto the next item, does anyone have any questions?" I seriously and portentously asked a question, then, which I thought was hilarious: "If we're the first one in the office in the morning, do we still have to scream 'Good Morning' and clap our hands to the sides of our legs?" Her answer was immediate, and humorless: "Yes." "Well, I mean, there's no one else around to hear it, right?" "You still have to do it. It's the rule. Every employee must do this. That's why we call it 'protocol.'" This instant was actually the very first time I begin to ponder the logistics of actually going ahead and being homeless. You know, cardboard, up against concrete, is not only not uncomfortable — it's pretty good for your spine!

    I pushed further: "What if I am the second person in the office, and the first person is someone with whom I have, previously, managed to successfully cultivate a congenial personal relationship? What if it's a person whose first and last name I know, with whom I share interests and hobbies, and we've previously agreed that we think this 'Good morning' shit is some serious bullshit, and we just agree to be like, 'Hey, what's up' to one another in the morning and we've also agreed that hey, if anyone else asks, we'll just go ahead and say 'Oh yeah, that dude totally screamed "Good morning" to me this morning'?"

    The HR girl didn't even blink: "You still have to carry out the customary 'Good Morning'..."

    Did you really read the article, or are you like others in this thread just skimming through and coming to assumptions

    It's worth noting that I got friendly with a guy in the office — and one day, he happened to be first in the office, and I was second. I didn't say good morning to him. He came over to my desk about two minutes after I'd settled in. "You forgot to say good morning."

    "Yeah, I know, dude. How are you doing today?"

    ". . . You know, I don't really mind, myself, though you really do have to say good morning. If there were more people in the office, and not just me, they would think you were not part of the team. Even if it's just me in the office when you get in, you should try getting into the habit of saying good morning in my presence. This is just how we do things in Japan, Tim."

    "Well, [Name-removed]-san, you can try putting 'san' on the end of my fucking name from now on, then, you know, as practice."

    Really — all these customs and politeness and whatever, and they go and throw out the customary name suffix and just call me "Tim". Why not "Tim-san"? I'm required to put "san" on the end of their names. It's a little . . . suspicious. I knew from the beginning that I would never "fit in" whether I wanted to or not; well, this was probably around when the rest of the world got the memo.

    I never talked to that guy again! From that day on, when I arrived in the office and he was the only other person there, I wold snap my fingers, point directly at him, and then, when I had gotten his attention, I'd give him a sharp military salute, letting some huge "HOOH" sound escape the back of my throat.
     
  11. Ai chan

    Ai chan Queen of Yuri, Devourer of Traps, Thrusted Witch

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    Yes, it doesn't. While you can say they SURELY have pedophiles, they don't have MASSIVE problem with pedophiles. Unlike Americans, the Japanese understand the idea that 'Even if you want to do it, it doesn't mean you should do it." Actual pedophilia has never been associated with modern Japan. Japan's pedophilia incidents are much lower than South Korea, The Philippines, China, Mongolia, Thailand, Indonesia, Brazil, Peru, Argentina and Colombia.

    You're the one who's ignorant. Where did you even base your idea that Japan has a massive problem with pedophiles. Did it come from your ass?
     
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  12. Lushwf

    Lushwf Well-Known Member

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    Enjoy http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2054271,00.html

    Here is a book with someone who works with victimized children who writes about her own experiences: https://www.amazon.com/Six-Foot-Bonsai-Soul-Lost-Rising/dp/0692773134
     
  13. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    I have watched documentaries and extensively studied Japanese legal system.
    Low reports =/= Less crime
    Most murders are masked as suicides and missing persons.
    Yakuza owns most adult movie studios and politicians.
    Guns are illegal so criminals just have to get creative
     
  14. Ai chan

    Ai chan Queen of Yuri, Devourer of Traps, Thrusted Witch

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  15. Lushwf

    Lushwf Well-Known Member

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    From the first text blurb "According to estimates from Interpol, as much as 80% of the child porn available on commercial sites worldwide originates in Japan. A police study found more than 3,000 Websites based in Japan distributing pornography, 40% of them featuring children. Policing porn on the Internet is difficult anywhere, says Ralf Mutschke, assistant director of Interpol's criminal division. But most of the world at least has laws that prohibit child pornography. Japan doesn't."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/19/...hild-pornography-after-years-of-pressure.html

    "TOKYO — Yielding to years of pressure to fall in line with the rest of the developed world, Japan’s Parliament outlawed the possession of child pornography on Wednesday. But the new law left untouched the nation’s popular and sometimes sexually explicit manga comics as well as other portrayals of young girls as objects of sexual desire."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/57eaaf23-0cef-48c8-961f-41f2563b38aa
     
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  16. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    Yes I read it, I don't see any problem with any of this? It seems perfectly okay? What's the problem of needing to say Good Morning every time and hearing it back? It's just how things work over there and I doubt anyone's work flow is seriously disrupted by the Good Morning shouts.

    I'm slowly reading through this super lengthy article and commenting here as I read each section. Last one I read was about how he complains about stuff in Japanese having meaning and people shouting Irasshaimase all the time in stores... Which uhn... Well, I suppose the noise can get annoying if you're the only person in the store, but that seems like a really small problem too?

    And apparently he has a problem with videogames showing a health bar for the enemy, but not showing the exact amount of health they have while showing the exact amount of damage you deal... I dunno why he thinks a health bar is a problem, but you can just check the enemy's detailed status if you wanna see the exact HP they have left... Which is useless to know about though, so you never open the menu to check that.
    Well, this is weird... Well, still reading the first article of the thread though, and I definitely won't study their legal system! >.<

    But yeah, that doesn't seem like a good legal system.
    I didn't read the article you linked yet, but this one is false, they definitely prohibit child pornography.

    What they don't prohibit are R-18 doujinshis involving fictional lolis.
     
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  17. Lushwf

    Lushwf Well-Known Member

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    I addressed just your concern with two more articles linked. It's fact, I'm not going to argue this with you any further since my stomach turns from reading this too much. If you want to take that as you being in the right, go right ahead.
     
  18. Ai chan

    Ai chan Queen of Yuri, Devourer of Traps, Thrusted Witch

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    I would like to see that particular document. Just look at the numbers. You'll see how suspicious this particular section is. Also, this is an article from 20 years ago. It was a time when Japan's idea of what is porn and American idea of what is porn does not mean the same thing.
    And why would Japan not banning explicit manga comics a problem? Japanese law stated that manga and literature falls under literature law, where fictional items are not subject to other laws regarding real items. Would you ban Greek statues?

    As for the JK alley, Americans do this too, you know. Those schoolgirls in Japan at least have strict code of conduct regarding sex, which is no-sex. They're only companions, to chat with, to dine with and to watch movies with = basically hired platonic girlfriends. Kanojo Okarishimasu tells of this side of Japanese society pretty well, if you can ignore the painful indecisiveness of the protagonist.

    How about I give you actual statistics that you can read yourself instead of third-hand articles? They're short and precise, so you won't hurt braincells trying to figure out what the author is trying to imply or hint.
    https://www.undispatch.com/here-is-how-every-country-ranks-on-child-safety/
    https://www.pbc2019.org/protection-of-minors/child-abuse-on-the-global-level
     
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  19. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    I hadn't seen the 2nd article when I made my reply because you linked it later, I read it now.

    And yeah, R-18 stuff with fictional characters is legal. And that's totally okay, why would it be a problem?

    And while I agree that Chaku Ero is definitely weird, it's still not showing any genitals or the like, so uhn... It doesn't pass a pornography I guess? Dunno, it's a weird thing for sure, no clue what to think of it, would need to watch one to have a proper opinion on the matter and I'm definitely not going to do it.

    As for the things of cafes related to holding hands or sitting on someone's lap and what not... Is that a problem? Why would it be?




    And now I finished another part of the original article of this thread where the author talks about a successful cafe that has multiple stores in Tokyo is a bad business and how they have a terrible system that will eventually fail because they expand too much, even though in one of the towns he went to this cafe was the only cafe in town because... Hey, apparently it's a terrible and totally unsuccessful cafe.

    And then when talking about how it translates to videogames he is saying that... Encouraging niches is bad or something? I'm not sure I got his point, but apparently good business strategies to tailor to specific niches are bad on his eyes.

    And he also says that a game that tries to not stress the player is a horrible game or something... Which is uhn... Laughable? I mean, sure, it's fun to have a hard time at a game, but having an easy time can be fun too as long as the game's mechanics are interesting enough and the story is good, which... Japanese games tend to deliver all the time.

    I generally like hard games, but him saying that games heading to the direction of trying to not stress players is bad... Is not only silly, but short-sighted, because games have gotten easier and easier world-wide for a long time now, Japan is not the only one doing it and it has been very successful so far.
     
  20. Lushwf

    Lushwf Well-Known Member

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    From your own article (the 2nd one):
    Sex tourism
    • According to data from 2017, the World Tourism Organization (UNWTO), each year 3 million persons take a trip in order to have sexual relations with minors. The most popular destinations are Brazil, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Thailand and Cambodia, and more recently, some African and Eastern European countries.
    • The first six countries of origin of those who perpetrate the abuse are: France, Germany, the United Kingdom, China, Japan and Italy. Not to be overlooked is the growing number of women traveling to developing countries seeking paid sex with minors. In total, they represent about 10% of the world’s sex tourists.
    Ok, Time magazine, NY Times, BBC, apparently have no idea how to conduct research for journalism. Not to mention these are what you get from an insular society that women have in so many instances been reported to never report rape or abuse. Look at how women are treated and that should be enough to understand that what goes unreported must be like an iceberg. The west is much more overt about airing its dirty laundry than the east. Family keeps it within family, like mental health issues.

    "Until 2014 child pornography was legal to own in Japan. The law has changed, but the sexualisation of minors continues.

    "Chaku Ero", which means "erotically clothed" is a kind of soft porn - it doesn’t involve nudity, but it can get very, very close and is often overtly sexual.

    Stacey asks a Chaku Ero producer (who wanted to remain anonymous) how young the girls in his shoots are.

    “My youngest was six years old,” he says. “We filmed her in her bathing costume playing with some toys. Her mum was standing behind the camera holding her favourite toy so she would face the camera.”

    He makes much more money filming children than older girls. The DVD of the six-year-old made him “four million (£28,500) or five million yen (£35,500),” he says. “The senior high school girls will make about one million (£7000)”.

    When Stacey asks how he would feel if someone had shot his own 16-year-old daughter the way he shot that six-year-old girl, he pauses.

    “I would force both of us to commit a joint suicide,” he says.

    “Are you serious?” Stacey asks him.

    “Yes."

    Owning child pornography became illegal in Japan in June 2014. In the 12 months between July 2015 and July 2016, there were 37 cases sent to public prosecutors on grounds of owning this material.

    In the UK, in 2015 and 2016, there were more than 5000 arrests for possession, with 481 found guilty.

    Why is there such a massive gulf?

    Under Japanese law, when they find an abusive image, they need to identify the child, confirm they are underage and, in order for an investigation to proceed, the victim has to bring charges. Arrests will only be made if the evidence against the perpetrator can guarantee a conviction, so it’s a lot tougher to prosecute than in the UK.

    Perhaps one thing that Westerners may notice is a different attitude to young girls. As Stacey says, “one of the things that slaps you in the face when you arrive in Japan is their obsession with everything cute”.

    She believes there is an issue that goes “much deeper than child porn”.