A new group, hands already covered with dirt and blood (Drama Alert)

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by kobatochandaisuki, Apr 5, 2019.

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  1. kenar

    kenar ヽ(`・ω・´)ゝ

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    Psst, it's been a while since the last time we saw one of them here
     
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  2. joey183

    joey183 The Mysterious Entity

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    My dear fellow netizen, I think you are barking at the wrong tree.
    So using your example, you are went and apply for a job at KCDS because you wanted to work and wola you got hired because of your wonderful resume. After you got hired, you found out your job scope is too heavy for you and wants to quit the company so you went and apply for another company, 100WS who after looking at your wonderful resume, said they will be willing to hire you and gave you a job offer. You accepted it and so 100WS welcomes you aboard. So, the next thing you should do is go to KCDS and resign so you can go to the new company 100WS to work!

    But no, you still continue to turn up for work in KCDS despite having accepted the new company 100WS's job offer. This isn't a right practice to do. Especially when both KCDS and 100WS are in the same industry line. By doing this, you definitely is doing a breach of trust to your 1st employer because of the conflict of interest, doesn't matter whether this is only a hobby team, or not.

    Serious conflicts of interest in the workplace involve working with a competitor (either as an employee or contractor) or revealing information, such as trade secrets, to a third party.

    If an employee starts a business in their spare time that competes with their full time employer or uses skills that they learned at their job to start a competing business, this could also constitute as a direct clash of interests.

    That's why when KCDS found out about this, he felt utterly betrayed. So, KCDS wasn't actually making unnecessary drama. Everyone need to know this so that no one will abuse the community.
     
  3. Antonyn

    Antonyn New Member

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    You do have good taste in novels.
    I'll leave it at that.
     
  4. Antonyn

    Antonyn New Member

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    Thank you for your response,
    Not quite accurate, especially since this is merely a comparison. However, let's expand upon it.
    Say you have a part time job, which does not pay the bills, that does not mean you can not work two jobs in tandem. A lot of people take multiple jobs in different companies after all. In fact, many also do "Gigs" where they work for a company in contractual basis, while working a primary job.

    Other examples, a coder that does it part time, or say someone who works in the fast food industry, there is cross pollination in talent there. Go in to politics, there is even more cross pollination there, where consultants will work for opposing parties, and so forth.
    The TL'er is a free agent in this case, and there have been quite a few who have worked more than one group at the same time.

    The idea that KCDS owns the TL'er and they can't look for other options, without quitting them first doesn't even make sense.
    That is so disturbingly controlling, that it's ridiculous.
    From their conversations, I did not see a "non-compete" clause that would force a TL'er to stick to only one group.

    All I saw was that they were given the idea to translate the novel, they were supposed to be given adequate support, which KCDS failed to provide, and the TL'er still provided translated chapters for them as well.

    Neria messed up, because they thought they could still work with KCDS even without support. You're right, they should have just quit as soon as they didn't get their needs met. It was their fault, for thinking that KCDS would be fine if they still provided translations.

    100WS messed up since they started releasing the novel, without ironing out their negotiations first.

    So beyond asking to take down the novel, since the initial idea to translate came from KCDS, they just decided to completely carpet-bomb that group with this type of drama, while providing a filtered chat-log. I am not saying that Neria or 100WS is right either, just that all of them are at fault.

    I still maintain that this should have been settled privately, as all it does it makes everyone look bad, since each party shares culpability. While potentially killing off a fledgling group that had pretty good quality and a more consistent release schedule prior to all this.

    I am not saying that KCDS does not have the right to do what they have done. They are more than welcome to say whatever they want, and there are some basis to their allegations. Mistakes were made, but it did not have to blow up like this.

    I should stop after this, but I'd be happy to continue, I mean, might as well let it die down. I'll just agree to disagree, it's pretty much over now any way.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  5. kobatochandaisuki

    kobatochandaisuki Well-Known Member

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    Just one thing: It was not filtered chatlog but just broken and incomplete chatlog as the exporter did not work well and I didn't verify before releasing. You can check at the later version that it is (probably) the same as the one 100WS provided as I changed the chatlog exporter.
     
  6. Insanityplea

    Insanityplea *Head Tilt*....*Fart*

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    Alright, didnt know this drama was going on. Not really much I can say except Welcome To The Internet...? Heres a rather sad fact. Most people are shit on the inside in this day and age. If they arnt from a fat bloated whale carcass country with more than they need or more likely deserve, they are from a clusterfuck country where half of em would sell their blood relatives for some bread and clean water and the other 20% of the population is rather content with life and arnt scum on the inside. Now give these people an easy outlet where there are literally no consequences unless they do some obviously fucked up shit and TADA! you have the internet of today (for the record, im a shit on the inside person, im not blind enough to think otherwise).

    So just take this as a kick in the nuts (or maybe some vicious titty twisters if not a male), suck it up and stop trusting everything with a keyboard. Honestly shocked you havnt gotten screwed over like this before if you are so trusting.

    NOW! for the real reason I came to this thread.

    Whats up with your website? Its down more than its up and I wanna re-read EER. I actually managed to catch it up this morning before going to bed but then I woke up and it was out like a light that met a baseball bat in a dark alley.

    <_< >_> I got here from searching "KobatoChanDaiSuki down?" and it tagged this drama train. Noticed you posting, so figured id get a helluva lot quicker response here then making my own little post.
     
  7. Viola

    Viola Studio Ghibli Fanboy Mother of Learning Fanboy

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    So this blew up since I've been here. Wow.

    At the end of the day, dont work for someone and when you leave (honestly or dishonestly) take with you something that was given to you by the person you work for and doesn't belong to you.
    In this situation there is no legal recourse but the lack of morality remains the same on the part of the worker who took what was given to him when it didnt belong to him.

    There is legality to be argued in the big picture but this isnt the big picture, it's an interaction between two groups and the one person who bridged them.

    As for people saying this shouldn't have been brought up... really?
    It is important for all these issues to be brought up. The community can then see it and make a hopefully informed decision about the right and wrong and can form an opinion about the groups or people whom they give their traffic or even directly their money through donations or subscriptions now.

    Props to KCDS for bringing this up when it would inevitably lead some people to form a negative opinion of them or to disagree. It is good to be open of such things.

    Look at Qidian and how much they tried to hide everything and deceive people. Their reputation is garbage. And was only getting worse till they decided to shut up.
    You never saw them releasing chat logs, screenshots of emails that dont exist but qidian claimed did to strengthen their points.
    Yes this is not a 1:1 comparison. Not even a 1:10 comparison.
    The point is openness is good and props to those who do so. It is a wise move for a community that has not completely lost its consumer sense about where they get what they read.

    Rant done.

    TLDR:
    Swiper no swiping
    Honesty and Openness = Good
    Still hate Qidian
    12 pages... woah
     
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  8. A Wandering Panda

    A Wandering Panda Well-Known Member

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    I just want to point out that this logic is flawed.
    How can one own a novel unless they have the licenses to translate it?
    Neither groups (KCDS or 100WS) had legal rights to translate the series.
    Therefore, no one can "claim" a novel in the legal sense.
    Fan translation wise, the group that puts the work may say they own the project, but at the end of the day they are still translating illegally.
     
  9. DarknessWolf

    DarknessWolf The Neutral, The Chaotic, Summoner, Lone Wanderer

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  10. Antonyn

    Antonyn New Member

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    I appreciate the clarification.
     
  11. Antonyn

    Antonyn New Member

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    Only reason I didn't think it should have been brought up was because I didn't find malicious intent from the translator who did the work. I considered it an honest mistake that could have been rectified privately.

    Rather than blow up the drama immediately, a private settlement could have been done. The ones that did the work, was the TL'er and the other group, while still providing KCDS with chapters that was different from the ones provided in 100WS.

    It was an escalation that could have been avoided.
    • It made KCDS look like a petty, tyrannical, controlling site, that does not provide the resources in an agreement.
    • It made Neria look like an idiot, (what I saw from it was that I thought he tried to work with both groups since he felt obligated to KCDS to continue with them, even when getting help from 100WS.), he still did the work, found resources for himself, and gave chapters to KCDS. His issue, was that he should have just quit the whole thing if he wasn't getting the resources he asked for. Problem is, he already started the project, and probably just wanted to continue for completion's sake. He made the wrong call, but again, I didn't see the initial maliciousness. Just a guy trying to fill out two different obligations, but failed due to lack of communication.
    • It also made 100WS look like fools, for releasing the chapters without ironing out the details of an agreement.
    All of them are at fault in this. It could have been just a lesson-learned not to do again, while still continuing in business. This was just too scorched earth for my tastes.
     
  12. Antonyn

    Antonyn New Member

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    KobatoChanDaisuki, you are in your rights to bring all of this up. You have great taste in novels, and all-in-all considering, have been doing a decent job.

    I apologize for coming down hard on you. I saw this all as an error on communication for the most part. Looking at the chat-logs and everything, I thought everyone tried to do a good-faith effort to make things work.

    I did not see Neria seeking to screw you over. From my read of things, I thought he was just trying to get things done by any means. He was not looking for payment or recognition, just wanting to do something. He did the work, along with help from another group.

    I see that as his mistake, but he was someone who was initially your friend, who didn't jump ship when he didn't get what he thought was needed assistance, all the while trying to balance/broker a deal between two groups that he felt obligated to. It just blew up on his face.

    Had he really been trying to be malicious, he could have just run off with the novel, after quitting on you. I mean, let's be honest here, what was actually provided to him? Other than the idea to start translating that novel which you don't really have ownership on either.

    That's it. I know emotions seem to have run high, and I saw this as preemptive shot fired, before negotiations were settled.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  13. Viola

    Viola Studio Ghibli Fanboy Mother of Learning Fanboy

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    My logic is not flawed unless you quote only a part or what I said and ignore the part where I accounted for the legality of the situation.

    I said the legality can be argued, which is the point you brought up. I went on to say that that is irrelevant to the moral issue of taking something that was given to you and taking it elsewhere right after when it was expected you would use what was given on the site that gave it to you.
    Your arguement is big picture, which I said I wasn't talking about. I was talking about the interaction between the two groups and the individual in between.

    All your points are fair and really well thought out. I can't actually find any real fault with them.

    At the end of the day it is just a difference in preference. I would rather hear about the first steps taken in situations like these because that often shows a groups or individuals nature and the way they may act in the future, not to say they can't change for the better or improve upon themselves. That goes for all parties involved I should say too. Mistake were made on both sides.

    But at the end of it I would far prefer that situations like this make it to light. Not cause I'm a Drama Addict or anything. I just still care about where I read my novels. I still don't touch qidian and other sites (Though most of the others moved under Qidians banner... so easy for me.). I just like all the information so I can make an informed decision.
     
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  14. noriga

    noriga Smile ..

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    What a bullshit group name kcds.
    Lol
     
  15. Ultrabenosaurus

    Ultrabenosaurus Well-Known Member

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    What a bullshit pointless comment.
    Lol
     
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  16. Ruyue

    Ruyue Well-Known Member

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  17. noriga

    noriga Smile ..

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    What a bullshit pointless worthless lowlife
     
  18. Ultrabenosaurus

    Ultrabenosaurus Well-Known Member

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    I know you are but what am I?

    What was the point of you jumping in so long after the last post just to insult the group name? Are you that bored? Could you think of nothing relevant or even slightly meaningful to say? Why even bother?
     
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