Discussion Power-level system in novels

Yea I know it depends on the system but in most of the NOT MMORPG novels with stats they tend to do the subtraction thing with attack and defense if both are there. So a generalized defense stat is mostly shit if the author does not put some work in.

And for your second point I agree. I so hate the not explaining thing about how the numbers correlate to power. Or how everything has what sort of synergy. Can you translate the growth of numbers into a linear system of real power growth? Is it exponential growth? Is it a logarithmic growth? Who knows.

Oh and I just remembered one thing that is also horrible about the general stats. Vitality / health what does it even mean? Why do you have super high hp numbers but you can still be killed by beheading from a normal sword? Is it just some sort of blunt damage dampener then?

 

I always thought that high HP to mass ratio means the character is unusually tough - an ordinary sword strike to the neck would get stuck a few millimeters into the neck, leaving just a little wound. To behead such a character, his opponent would need to be ridiculously strong.
But "can ignore wounds the size of Seattle and keep going" interpretation is valid too. Such a character, if beheaded, would work like a Dullahan, except losing blood all the time. And he probably can put the head back on, and it'll grow into its place.

By the way, I heard that it's actually unrealistic to behead an opponent in combat - they say it can only be done in controlled conditions of an execution, with an oversized weapon and a strong executioner. An ordinary sword or axe strike to the neck would be very dangerous, but would not actually lop the head off.

 

Yea normally I would also think HP makes it a bullet sponge but if it would toughen up we would be at defense light stat. Tbh vitality / health only really make sense in a gaming environment where taking hits does not take you apart but harms the hp. Since in the other settings I have hardly ever seen the toughened up example. Most of the novels using that hardly ever speak about it even. You have these stat sheets with the numbers and sometimes after a fight you have a new one saying 103 / 270 hp to show character is wounded. It does work kinda well with small wounds? As in a small cut does 10 hp dmg if you have more hp you can be cut more often but the big hits that takes enemies apart well. If you are chopped in half your 100000 hp will not help you.

As for the beheading for us it is really hard at least. If you do not have something really sharp and preferably heavy with a good aim and a target that does not move good luck. I somewhere read something about a huge Germanic gladiator beheading someone and it was super special since it was really really rare. In normal battles it is probably even worse since armor and all and you really have to commit yourself to that hit with everything you got in a stupidly huge movement where you are completely undefended and even if you do it in the end you have to get back into proper fighting position so I guess added to the fact it is really hard no one committed to it since it is just not really practical and useful. But in novels you do not have that strengt / agility / stamina constraint and someone wielding a 500 pound axe like a toothpick should absolutely be fine and that one can easily make you one head shorter.

 

Thats maybe true if it is three times the strength. But, what I said was the stats average is 3 times as much, it means all of the stats are 3 times as much. Whether it's the strength, agility, vitality, magic etc. And these things don't work like addition or substraction, rather it is more accurate to say that it is working like multiplication.

 

I know, I am just using the word strength to be something more general, but it would still not be enough unless he have some ability that can one shot them before they can act as a team. As someone even with three times less stats would be able to defeat some three times more stats if they had competent teammates and planned out their attack or just know how to dodge the first few attacks.

 

Personally i like a power system like Lord of the mysteries where things are something in-between.

 

I prefer clear power level systems, but I also like some leeway that it isn't completely straight forward. For example, it is fine if someone can defeat someone else twice their level using skills or compatibility, this way while someone who is higher level had an advantage, but the advantage shouldn't be absolute. Though the leeway should have its limits, if you can defeat someone 5X your level, that is already pushing it...

That said, most important regardless it be clear or vague is CONSISTENT power levels.

 

Acting as a team isn't going to help much if the opponent can tank every bit of damage they throw at him or if he can out run them so they can't hit at all.
If you want to make up that kind of difference with just number of fighters you are going to need more total combined stats than the opponent, not equal combined stats.

 

Opponents always have weak points unless they are overwhelmingly strong that the weak point is useless and sure the person can outrun them in a race, but if he want to fight against the three of them he eventually have to get close. So one can act as distraction, while the other hinder, and the third go for the weak point. So unless he is overwhelmingly faster than them that they can barely react, he is not going to be able to dodge everything, parts of his body maybe more durable, but others parts are naturally weak.

So I am not saying the chance are high, but handling someone with only three times the stats advantage isn't too difficult.

 

You are missing the point about speed though, being 3 times faster means he can outmaneuver them so they can't surround him, with that kind of speed difference he would be able to position himself so that his target is always in the way for the other two to be able to do anything.

 

Three times the speed is not great enough for him to perform maneuver that would allow him to dodge most or hinder his enemy if his opponents was competent and has similarly competent teammate. As they could wait for him to come attack one of them or never and then position themselves afterward. As it would be foolish to charge at someone three times stronger than you. So unless his opponent has no recourse, they could simply wait in position, and allow him the first move before getting into correct position to hinder or attack. Unless he is many times faster fighting multiple opponent even with just a third of the stats it would be difficult.

 

I think we're again running into "stats are numbers that don't explain what they mean" problem. Does agility or speed stat of 300 mean the person runs 3 times faster than a character with agility or speed stat of 100?
As a general rule, I expect this to be true for speed, but not true for agility (which modifies running speed indirectly).

 

Even if it is just a 30% advantage that is huge for mobility though, especially if it includes reaction time.
In the scenario we are talking about it is pretty much as if imagining 3 peasants going up against an armored knight, that also happens to be more mobile.
The question is what equipment both sides have, though normally the stronger one would be better off in that regard too, at least when we are talking about high power characters.

 

Rather than having a number system, I like systems where you can learn skills, any skills, they don't have to be unlocked, like say, cooking. Your preformance isn't determined by your 'level', rather your preformance determines your rank. I would like it to be subjective evaluations of their skills rather than numbers. Like you can cook a mean omlette but are no eclair baker. Something realistic of how we develop skills in the natural world. Not hitting until we reach a certain xp, but building gradually, layer by layer. Just cuz ur a pro cook don't mean u can't eff up simple rice.
That's my ideal system.

 

I get what u mean. Like Re:Monster is nice and fun to read cuz of the plot and how the ogre cleverly uses tactics to power up. What's important is relatability of the characters. I can relate to him and Kuro because they genuinely struggle and are defeated only to go back, think, train and try again.
However, I always skim / skip over the stats and skills presentations. It's irrelevant to my experience, tbh, and if the author excluded it, it would be of no loss. Instead, when they use that skill in battle, hence introducing their latest genius technique they thought up, I pay attention to that instead. It's when and how they use AGI 100 rather than telling me AGI 100 because that holds no meaning to me. Like what is AGI 100? What does it look like?s

 

The best manga I've noticed thus far that deals with intellect (knowledge) and wisdom (using your intellect in your disposal to create crafty solutions) well, is GameLife (I think? It's korean and has the 'abyss' staring back atcha thing).
The dude had his wisdom stats go up when he developed a crafty method of raising his endurance and pain tolerance and intellect at the same time. He was being genuinely clever. There's a difference between having knowledge, memorized steps, facts, and using that knowledge well. Like my favourite characters would be the sharp ones who may not have an oxford degree but sure know how to read others, play with words, do something despite being so much physically weaker than some big shot.
You can have 100 intellect but 1 wisdom and you would be basically like a search engine / encyclopedia. But if you have 100 wisdom and 1 intellect, you will know how to use that 1 intellect to conquer the world (e.g. how to expand it best, most effectively for future use, but how to use that 1 intellect to survive from this maniac brute chasing you in the mean while)

 

Given all the struggle DnD players have understanding the "wisdom" attribute, I prefer the system to either nor have any mental stats (and leave them to actual people) or have one mental stat that forms the basis of skills which reflect actual ability in specific mental things.