Discussion Polygamy

Cool. I thought you were disagreeing with me and was confused.

 

I am not quite sure what you mean there. If you're attractive enough to get attention of one girl, it's not unrealistic that you can get attention of 2 or more girls. Sure, you can't expect all the girls in town to like you, but having 2-5 interested girls is a possibility.
Also note that girls actively trying to get the guy (and lying like politicians before elections) is apparently common behavior in Japan. Because "housewife" is the only position in Japanese society where you need not die from overwork to be considered a decent person. And it also carries a certain amount of prestige and a huge amount of parental approval.

 

Interesting. I guess the same could be said for most Asian cultures that openly practice(d) polygamy? Haha and maybe France and some religions. ^.^

 

I'm no expert on Asian cultures. Only an anime fan who has a lot of accidental knowledge about Japan. I'm under the impression Japan was monogamous too (but people who got married for political reasons had a lot of affairs).
My home culture seems to have been monogamous for all of its recorded history, so I can't help you from personal knowledge either.

 

I read all sorts of things....getting into manga and Asian novels has given me an appreciation for their societies and culture. I come from a culture that is also historically monogamous and christian, but I practice polyandry in private. I guess that gives me an eclectic background.

 

lol! There is no difference between the MC and the young masters. All xianxia are a copy and paste of the same exact personality.

Not to mention it isn't always about the young masters getting in a fight with the MC, often times it is the MC getting in a fight with the young masters.

Often times the fight even break out because the young master is courting the girl, and she rejects him not because of any other reason then not being the MC. The MC then "rescues" her, has his 1 night stand for the yin or what not and moves on.

 

I remember reading about an American NFL player who had like eight different baby mommas in eight different states in the US. Obviously in the strict definition of polygamy you would not equate the two situations but simply on relative terms what is the difference?

In my culture(East African)polygamy is culturally accepted as long as the woman/families you have are treated like parallel universes. For example resources between those two different wives cannot be interchanged and the wives and children bore between them essentially should never interact. Obviously in reality these things do not go as cultural rules intend them too(especially in my family)I am curious to know if other areas of the world that have any type of polygamous practices(male or female)have any sort of quirks in their practice.

P.S Not a a polygamous myself nor do I plan to, my grandfathers are all the examples I need lol

 

In my polyandrous relationships, we all knew that we existed and our relationships were exclusive of others. We also had other rules...

East African law is not something I would ever accept personally...or atleast volunteer to have a relationship like that. Africa is one of those places where women do not always have, in the eye of the law, equal rights as we do in so called first world countries.

 

Disclaimer: I don't actually read xianxia. And given what I hear about the genre on these forums, I don't want to. Half of the reason I consume Japanese media is because they're quite compatible with my sense of what is good and bad (except for rare moments when they aren't).

This might be a language problem, but the way I understand it, "failing for no reason in social stuff" is the definition of being uncharismatic. Charismatic people are the ones who succeed at social stuff for no reason.
And flipping out and getting into a fight because the girl rejected you is an example of very unattractive personality related to anger control issues and being a sexist pig. Which probably explains why the girl rejected him.

 

It probably feels that way due to the authors lack of writing skills. Many people get rejected all the time and I am sure some salty one would say he/she doesn't like me cause I am not the that "other" whether its a specific person or traits. Its a shallow excuse so its why I chalk it down to poor writing/failure of understanding relationships by the author.

 

Except no, the young master is always described by the crowd as charismatic and wanted by everyone, while the protagonist is described as a bum who doesn't know his place.

And it is funny you mention flipping out because a girl rejected you is the definition of being unattractive. Because flipping out cause the girl rejected you is one of the most common CN tropes for the MC! With some cases the MC ends up even destroying her entire clan! Because how DARE she reject the MC for being trash.

As for japanese media, isn't the MC half the time a beta loser who gets girls simply by breathing? Even the girls often admit MC looks bland and has a poor personality yet they all cling to the MC like they have no life of their own. And of course the MC will often times deny their feeling for him, but at same time prevent any other guys from trying to court girls in his harem which they deny they have.

And you are effectively describing why people hate harem/polygamy novels, it has nothing to do with hating harem/polygamy in itself, it is because 99/100 times it is going to be poorly written by the author, thus bringing down the quality of the work.

 

Tbh I would say a lot of people do not like romance in novels where romance is a subplot because even without a harem most authors have little to no clue how relationships work, so yea you could chalk it down to poor writing and lack of understanding across the board. Thats why I mentioned earlier in the thread I prefer if novels where authors more or less bypass the romance part whether its monogamy or polygamy(Warlock of Magus World is a good example) because I rather read a great action or adventure story about the MC without some cheesy romance meant to just be overrated filler than watch the writer reveal his poor understanding of relationships with a poorly written or shallow romance. Is it easier to write a romance in a monogamous relationship than polygamous? Yes. But it definitely doesn't make writing a romantic relationship easy without it being an absolute cringe or come of as simple and cheesy, especially for readers with more mature backgrounds or tastes.

 

When description doesn't match the results, assume unreliable narration. In particular, almost every anime protagonist describes himself or herself as "average" or "ordinary". While running away from a crowd of self-proclaimed lovers.
They say, Japanese once did a poll. According to it, 90% Japanese are middle-class, and 50% are exactly in the middle.

I can only say that those cultivation novels seem to often feature antihero protagonists or villain protagonists. I can't be sure it's because the authors are horrible people themselves or it's because authors are writing their own personal problems into their work.

Like I said, I'm way more happy with Japanese novels, where the MC doesn't have to rape anybody to have them fall in love with him.

I dislike it when people use the words like "beta" to describe humans. It betrays lack of actual knowledge on the subject, and excess contact with those pickupers and other unrealistically manly people.
That said, most Japanese male harem leads have attractive personality - they are usually described as "truly kind" (that is, they are willing to help other people even if they do not expect to be rewarded with sex), and often have other good qualities (like excessive modesty). Their actual looks aren't that bad either (generic cuteness for the win), and blandness is actually attractive (exotic looks can be attractive too, but one kind of good looks is near the average human in one's experience).
The degree of life harem girls have outside of sexually harassing the MC varies depending on the author's skill. And it's rare to see an MC getting in the way of harem girls' relationships unless they're obviously going bad (like encountering random pushy pickupers).

 

Yes, romance is one of the most difficult things to write, and that difficulty increases exponentially the more you add. This is precisely why I try to avoid romance as much as possible in web novels.

Setting aside those JP MCs who are so dense they think girls running away because the MC is too handsome but they think they are ugly. Most JP MCs are viewed as average to below average in looks and girls don't care for them. They then get sent to another world and end up a chick magnet (even if the girls themselves admit the MC isn't handsome, maybe the tastes change in another world?)

It is wish fulfillment, just like JP wish fulfilment wishes to run away from work and live the slow life due to the stress of JP society. CN novels wish fulfillment is toppling down on authority that suppresses them.

But we aren't describing humans, we are describing fictional characters. And yes, we all know alpha and beta is not what the stereotype portrays, but in this case we are talking about template characters.

No.. they don't. They have as bland personalities as possible to make it easy for people to self insert while focusing attention to the templates of the harem members.

If you look at reverse harem novels/manga/animes, how many male characters share personalities/traits with the MCs of novels with male protagonist? Yeah, exactly.

And if you notice, the JP MC's record for "saving people with no reward" seems to somehow be dominated by girls.

99% of them don't have a life outside the MC. That is not to say that there are no skilled authors that can at least do that properly, but the fact that it holds true for majority of harems is precisely why harem is looked down upon.

And there are plenty of times where the JP MC keeps his harem at bay. Even if the MC says himself he isn't interested in them, his actions speak louder than words.

 

On point! It really comes down to personal taste. I started reading JP novels and don't mind most MCs too much until I started reading CN and KR novels and I find it hard to go back to the "soft soap" MCs JP novels have. Maybe its a product of their post war era while Chinese and Koreans are still militaristic and portray MCs as more aggressive and less naive.

Edit:It wasn't until I read a particular JP novel where MC won a lottery and was bringing tech into the new less advanced world willy nilly without any serious thought for consequences I had to take a break. Being a bit of a history buff and seeing how the author wrote a 20+ MC that naive I knew I needed a break.

This. Both CN and JP novels have trouble breaking out of their set archetypes. Most writers fail to actually give their MCs personalities of their own, with CN MCs being typically arrogant and confident while JP MCs more calm, quiet and modest but you need more than that for a character to truly have his/her own personality. Sadly if authors added anymore their self insert readers couldn't immerse themselves in the story as the MCs. Its pretty obvious these webnovels MCs have little in personality department and saying otherwise is probably deluding oneself. Not all web/light novels but I can safely safe a majority fit this description.

 

I don't mind wish fulfillment (in fact, I like it). I don't mind toppling authority. But if your wish is flipping out and killing all the girl's clan after she refused you, you're probably a bad person. I'd rather read a story about a guy who gets a harem of lolis.

1) Yes, tastes can change in another world.
Otherworlders in Death March were surprised that people who are considered very beautiful in Japan are considered ugly in that fantasy world. Fantasy world's inhabitants apparently don't appreciate the catgirl and doggirl's cuteness too.
2) Yes, people change when experiencing otherworldly adventures. Exercise and spending time outdoors is good for you.
"Saint's Magic is Omnipotent" even said it outright - after stopping overworking in Japan, office lady protagonist quickly becomes beautiful.
3) In Japan, MC's looks might be "below average". In pseudo-European fantasy world, the same looks are "exotic beauty".
4) I've often heard that a male attractiveness is not all about looks, it's about seeming reliable and wealthy. And sure, successful isekai protagonists are all that. Not every one of them gets his own kingdom, but shiny gold coins and noble titles are quite within their grasp.

Indeed. So feel free to use more specific words, like "tsundere" instead of "bitch".

In practice, it varies. Battle harem protagonists are prone to have more extreme personalities, rom-com protagonists usually have more realistic ones. About 50% of them have a personality trait or two that breaks "self-insert" for me.
Like, everybody says Kirito is generic and self-insert. They must have never tried to self-insert. Whether he's pulling a prank or suffering from PTSD, he obviously isn't me.

I haven't seen many of these, but it doesn't seem that rare. They're just prettier and more active in pursuing the girl, but that's the genre.

That is the kind of coincidence that is necessary to make the story a harem. That said, I've seen enough harem leads that also save small animals, generic villagers and people outside their strike zone. And harem leads who have "helps whomever asks, and tends to get used as a result" trait.

I feel that you're exaggerating. Maybe it's been a long time since you watched harems, and you're too used to date sim adaptations that dominated the scene 10-15 years ago.

 

cause it felt that all the other characters other then the ''witch-house'' characters. didn't matter

what happend to all the other characters no idea

 

I avoid this tag because most of harem novels I have read, everyone is brain dead all girl have the same personality , only the type of jade skin change

 

I realized most of it is unrealistic wish fulfillment by a fellow nerd with little (no) romantic experience. I couldn't help but see someone tapping away at a keyboard in a darkly lit room surrounded by anime posters, dakis and figmas. I can hardly stand harems or romance now, and ecchi/sex scenes entirely turn me off, reminding me of that meme image with the fat, naked guy sitting at a computer (no I don't mean me!) only that he's writing LNs. The same old tropes, the same old card-board cut-out personalities, the jadelike skin and the genki/megane/maido/cat ears stupid OP isekai MC slave bullcrap that purely exists to excite the author's benis.

It's so bad that I've even been turned off good romance now, and after countless cringe inducing ecchi/sex scenes, I can't even stand lewdness at all. It's a complete turn off and has ruined many, many stories for me. Especially those overly descriptive, flow breaking chapters where the author just has to let us know about how much of a stud the MC is with his bepis plot-pheromones. A lot of good stories have had to be scrubbed from my mind when they degenerate into light porn.

I think I've mostly come to detest harems since for me it's a sign of

• zero creativity
• the harem IS the plot, therefore I'm not interested
  
• the story has devolved into the author's wet dream and become plotless ero
  
• characters have no agency and exist to please the MC's pepsi (I detest lack of agency in characters so much!)
  
• I don't want to get immersed in the story and get sad it was ruined
• I've probably read this exact... romance a thousand times

And many more~ and well, the other end of awful is the spineless beta-MC yessman who is afraid of commitment and women, despite being a horrendous pervert. That also sucks.

It's just so strange. In fleshspace, I find it exciting, but when I see it in novels I'm totally turned off from the idea.

 

What do you mean by Fleshspace?