Discussion What's up with JP MCs?

I have a theory that these characters are cultural symptoms. You have a lot of Japanese men and women entering a workforce where they're forced to work ridiculous hours with almost no overtime, and then after work they have to go to drinking parties. Most office workers have very little time to themselves, and in the offices they work all their skills, and talents are siphoned by the company where all the credit goes to the director, CEO, or w/e. So when you look at it culturally, it makes sense that a large group of overworked, underappreciated employees go home and write web novels where their main characters are all powerful, but all they want is time to themselves.

EDIT: Forgot to mention the schooling culture as well. Kids go to school in the day, then cram school in the evening, and some students even have home tutors. So you have a lot of social stress bearing down on these people, and they respond with these stories. I don't think its a coincidence that most of these characters die, and then get reincarnated, instead of just quitting their job and doing something else.

EDIT 2: It probably makes better sense to say, the characters are all powerful because that's what the author's believe is needed for them to have their own free time. If you're going to go against the social pressures to work and devote your time to something you don want to do, you gotta be pretty "powerful".

 

Agree. One's culture almost always bleeds into any work or output so there will be times that will be so overt. Personally, I use this formula when designing characters to get some surprise/interest/catch fpr the reader.
People in Asia, and in extension their character, tendto be more subtle compared to Anglo characters.

 

JP MC made me pissed off after a while. Like I had 15 years of JP MC they used to be okay but slowly getting more and more 'beta' etc. So tired of it. CN MC was fun at first but also got boring because they all follow the same formula.....


That's why I love Reverend Insanity, it is the best because the MC feels more realistic according to the background and situation-

 

You know, I haven't yet seen a transported MC who has ever built a rocket or anything of equivalent complexity. About the hardest thing I've actually seen is an airship made by Satou from Death March. Which discarded safety concerns to the level of "if it doesn't kill my level 40 lolis, it's safe enough, even if it occasionally explodes".
Hmm... I guess Magi Craft Meister did build airplanes. But he was a jack-of-all-trades even in Japan, and got legendary-class local crafting skills when he was transported.
Even those works were very much simplified by using ridiculously expensive fantasy materials, which remove much of the problems inherent in real engineering.

As for reforms... every monarch in the history textbook implemented reforms. Why shouldn't MC do it? People are flexible, and can be pretty clever even if they aren't educated. Sure, not every peasant might figure out how to use that. But they just have to ask somebody who did understand the reform.
Think about it - all the complicated economics in Wolf and Spice is real and was used in middle ages.

 

my two cents

- it's a trend. aspiring writers jump on trends for popularity and acknowledgement. they follow something that's guaranteed to be accepted for maybe a first attempt at a story. and right now man is it a trend...
- wish fulfilment/power fantasy. real life isn't grand enough, so let's write a fake reality (yay oxymorons) where you're super ttly hot amazing cool beans (you're not) and everybody loves you, and everything you do is super and awesome things happen because of you. come on, we all want that at some point in our lives XD
- lack of experience/knowledge. i think, a good writer is someone who researches well and knows a lot, and this is easily seen through their writing. a lot of these op mc stories are mostly amateur web serials written by people who don't really fit the above categories, and with a rather shallow/immature perception of the world. so... can't expect much. it could be fun, but mature concepts will probably be botched to hell and back.

the fact that even though a lot of people are tired of it, stories with these mcs are still abundant shows how popular there are. and that a startling amount of people really like their wish fulfilment fantasies.

i don't like any of the options tbh, but my preference for mcs is someone with agency -- they have a goal, objective/ambition they want to fulfil. if it's romance, it's dating someone they like. if it's action, defeating the big bad. i hate it when things just fall on their lap -- i want them to work for what they will gain.

ok more than two cents oops

 

Dude, the rocket scientist thing is just a metaphor. What i meant is that they suddenly knew how to make anything or did reform like for example the guy from gun ota he made a modern gun using his knoledhe as gun otaku? iirc he also works in the factory or somethin but i felt that just because he knows them then he remake them in the other world with magic? Mechanism? Fail safe or w/e? If for example he was the reincarnation of mikhail kalashnikov or gun designer or the like i will approve it.....

Same goes for things like making musket, canon, arquebus, in "falling in love with the villainess" a story set in a place similiar to medieval erurope (the one who make them is the antagonist of the story the summoned heroine.... classic) she was an office lady back in her old world but suddenly she could recreate those weapons? And trample the new world army with them, completely ignoring that even the late 18th and early 19th century musket is highly inaccurate (save for riffles still that also not that accurate)! Why do you think they stand in a row and fire forward in the first place? Cuz at that time that is the most effective way to maximaze firepower....... with 10 men shooting maybe 3 will be shot down maybe 5 maybe 7 or maybe just 1...... and that is ignoring the fact that weapon development until that time goes hand in hand with ironworking and metallurgy development..... also the fact that infrastrucutre like roads and i mean paved road for transporting that heavy ass canon not to mention resupplying them and all with ammo and canon balls..... the ottoman lost numerous artillery and canon pieces in the balkan before the first siege of vienna not from battle but from heavy rain, and bad road in the balkan...... causing them to do extensive preparation like building roads, bridges, forward military depot to store ammunition, canon and the like in the balkan region before they launch their second attack on vienna which happened more than a century later...... honestly i love the first and second arc a lot, the last arc...... i like it, tho with a bit of dissapointment

There's also other novels but i'm not gonna mention it all....and yes i agree with the magic craft meister cuz it is simplified realy simplified and he made up his vague knowledge with the skill he got and ridicilous materials

In death march airship is not a new technology there are precedent like the hero's airship, and the now gone empire also fought the boar (or orc?) demon king with airship technology (correct me if i'm wrong) he didn't recreate them using former world knowledge but using the new world's...... there's also some sort of gundam in there.... who knows, maybe satou will reverse engineer it..... sides satou not exactly an "average" salaryman as it was first believed......

Yes.... reform do happen, what i'm trying to say is the formerly average highschool boy, or salaryman, suddenly know how to do it......(sorry i can't give the example cuz i read 3 or 4 of such novel few years ago and already dropped it...... can't remember the name) if he was formerly an expert in that area like isekai pharmacist i would nod along and accept it..... another one is if, like mitsuha from saving 80.000 gold..... she didn't do her reform herself she asked expert in the field and even transported them to the site to direct the reform..... she didn't do it, she get other people to do it for her but basicly.... it is still her reform........

Yes, people may not all stupid they can asks other who might understand but like in maoyuusha it is hard to concvince people to change from the old way (albeit not impossible) as king or noble u might be able to do such reform as they are ur subjects but u had to place at least 1 supervisor who had full knowledge of such reform in each place u wanna reform in order to ensure smooth reformation process and even then there might be failure and again what i don't like is how these supposedly "average", "ordinary" could suddenly know how to do agriculture, economy, etc reform......

Oh and spice and wolf? I love it! The author take the timeline of medieval europe in the very medieval europe atmosphere not ur typical isekai novel medieval europe where the author barely know what medieval europe is like or the fact that it is spanned few centuries (or almost a millenia iirc) with condition, culture, society, etc from each century that may or may not differ from one century or another..... (since there's a northern crussade it might take place in the 12th or 13th century medieval era...... might) i especially love how the author depicts about the cancellation of the northern crussades and how it affect various people and created ripples that caused many events down their road to the north and the struggle of each people affected by it.......


Sorry..... i talked too much but i do hope u see my point......

 

Guns aren't that complicated. In fact, the popular models are very elegant in their simplicity. The best ones require precision machinery to make them just right, but you can make a crappy gun out of random metal scrap, and it will still shoot.
A gun otaku should be able to replicate a gun given a modern metalworking workshop. The question is, how good is magic compared to a modern workshop, and how much support is provided by "Skills" and "Stats".
The hard part is actually the ammo. You can make 10 guns, throw out 9, and keep the good one. But for modern guns, each bullet has to be like all the others. You can get away with putting more or less smokeless gunpowder inside, but the case and the bullet have to be of a specific size.
If you're going with pure technology, smokeless powder is a quite hard thing to make. It seems to need a chemical factory, not a private laboratory. Apparently, you can put old-school smoky gunpowder inside, but then you'll have to live with replacing your gun once in a while.

I haven't read "falling in love with the villainess", so I can't comment on how bad things were there. But I am under the impression that recreating muskets is within the ability of any otherworlder who can say "saltpeter". (this stuff is actually moderately hard to get in medieval times, and likely to be the bottleneck of supply chain)
Canons are harder to make - something about casting them so well they don't explode. I imagine first-generation cannons by an otherworlder would be either small and light, or overengineered to the point they can take on any flaw and still work.
Sure, using firearms effectively is about either being familiar with history or a military genius, but that's nothing impossible. I mean, middle ages people figured out how to use guns pretty quickly.

 

I think its more of a cultural things..
The japanese have a very strict or stressing work environment.. on top of the no standing out thing..
So when they get home from all those stress they would prefer something more stress free in their fantasy novel.
They try hard on reality already so why would they want to experience similar things on fantasy right?
Thats why theres so many of those slice of life cheat harem stuff going on..

I personally think these stuff is kinda boring tho..

 

To me it seems like the beta often comes from the author wanting to avoid the age restriction tags and japanese censorship. It is easier to just ignore the romance possibilities then write something that will not flag a censor/age restriction. especially if you are not very experienced in the area.

Plus their obsession with girls needing to be virgins until marriage can make it looks bad if the FMC's are sleeping with the MC (they look less respectable) so a slow romance can be more acceptable especially with a socially awkward MC, writer and audience.

As to the pushover part, how much of that is the MC simply not being a violent criminal. To often the part the audience complains about the MC being to passive over is a point when that is his only legal option, unless he wants to be hunted down like a bandit (many OP MCs are not fight off an entire major nation overpowered), or the character is not a psycho with a murder boner and does not enjoy killing, so they try to avoid it like a rational human would in that circumstance since acting out to satisfy the immediate issues will lead to years or even decades of problems.

Yes there are times when the Mc does not react and should, but too much seems to be readers complaining that the Mc is not living out their own lawless fantasies, or ignoring the obvious consiquences to the actions they want.

 

Well.... i still believe such thing could not be so easily recreated in another world by "ordinary" "average" highschooler, salaryman, (insert) otaku, etc..... different matter if they're an expert who had specifically studied in such field...... but if that is ur view..... then let's just agree to disagree

 

I say the main reason, outside of irl reasons, is that the whole "op and speeding through adventurer ranks" thing is a very plain and pale things. Sure the passive and laid back novels are also similar, but it allows for
1. A slower pace, which allows for more focus on every character they introduce
2. Allows non-combatant characters to get "screen time"
3. Overpowered and active mc's heavily outweigh the laid back type.

Most laid back, passive novels have come out in recent years, so it'll be like that for a while, before the trend will equalize with the full out action types. Its just the coming and going of new trends based off of previous ones.

 

Ahhh no.1 and no.2 i forgot these also >.< things went so fast characters appeared author basicly just describe their physical feature and then either that character exist to praise mc or just to be there....... i want those character to have....... "character" and well.... "alive" in the story instead of just existing.....

As a side note nowdays characters that appeared in such novel felt like 70-90% females (around mc at least) even if a male appeared either it is old men, unimportant side characters, or douchebag (sigh)..... i realy missed novels that not only revolves around romance between mc and heroine (or heroines) but also friendship and camaraderie between men

 

From my short experience working for japanese company, being “beta” is considered good there or even encouraged among the colleagues as it shows you have the grit to bear with it. Putting up with people attitude, environment, situation.. against all odds completing the work or in novels, quest, is considered as admirable.

They also very rarely shares their opinion on things in contrast to western or other eastern countries. In fact since they might not even have it as they try not to think about it. Sitting on the fence is considered normal in comparison to having to pick a side.

They are also encouraged not to stand out or brag about their achievement... which was already pointed out in another post. I think being OP is kinda like a power play which is a release needed by most of the readers who are most probably consist of stressed students and office workers that are often suppressed by their surroundings and themselves.

Thus forming the trinity of japanese MC.

Secretively OP, wishy washy, and not dealing with the sh1t until the world somehow force them to do it.. which of course since they are OP they will be able to clear it with just a flick of their fingers.

Also fun fact, for japanese people who are often taught to think of society before themselves and not to have strong opinion/feeling, their fiction is written in a way that we are reading into the character thoughts and emotion. In contrast to western book which is often written in third person pov, sometime we can’t read the character emotion..whilst in RL western society encourages expression and opinions. ...Ah.. almost forgot.. harem. It is rather amusing to see so many harem manga, game and novel.. and the nonstop sexualization of characters, as a lot of the younger people there are not having xxx or losing interest in it. (you can google for the news coverage on it)

Anti thesis much.

 

If you know the ingredients for black powder or fireworks I can see you being able to recreate crude early firearms. modern firearms would require something to replace precision machining used today (and possibly metals, since modern steel is higher quality then medieval steel). same for the chemistry of modern gunpowder. Though there could be in world items you could re-purpose/modify to replace the gunpowder, but there would need to be a good reason no one is using that as a weapon.

It is possible, but there are limits to what someone should be able to make, but with magic you could try for (electro-)magnetic induction (or telekinesis like in Death Mage) as a replacement for the propellent (world specifics allowing) and bypass most of the issues, assuming you have some time to tinker. But I still would not expect a full modern appearance over a more crude design.

 

There's nothing wrong with being a laid-back, albeit powerful guy. Isn't that the dream for most people? Do you think everyone is like these hardcore cultivators, risking life and limb, crawling through a proverbial sea of needles in order to inch their cultivation forward?

As for the preference towards one personality archetype over another, it really just depends on the story. If the character fits well into the story and the story itself is of value, then who cares whether they're brave or cowardly, strong or weak? One of my favorite books of all time is the short story Notes from the Underground by Dostoevsky, the protagonist of which is a cowardly, diminutive, caustic, resentful specimen of a man. This does not detract from the story. On the contrary, it enriches the narrative and I wouldn't want it any other way.

 

We have alpha and beta males, but what about gamma males?

 

People throwing around such terms don't actually understand what they're talking about, so they can't say anything about gamma males. The theories they ripped the words out of, usually only use three letters - alpha (the biggest and the strongest), beta (not the biggest, but fine too), and omega (the smallest and weakest). Although chickens have an exact pecking order, three letters are good enough for mammals.
No idea why chickens care about pecking order so much. They're still a useless parody of birds only good for eating scraps and laying eggs.

 

eh, reminds me of the omegaverse in yaoi, lol.

 

I did mean gamma, as that is the 3rd letter of the Greek alphabet after alpha and beta, respectively.

 

I get that Japanese culture emphasizes a lot on being friendliness and kindness. However, legitimately there are times where a person should have "I am going to express my politically incorrect or rude opinion because it is about time! If people are offended by it, then so be it!"-type opinion. Sure, there is no exact set time/place of where/when to use that mindset. Of note, things like workplace harassment or bullying come to mind. Whether or not they remain employed for speaking about against #MeToo stories is hard to say.