Discussion Do you think this was justified?

Tell me what you guys think.



For me it’s okay to defend yourself, but when you start attacking that’s when the line has been cross.
Personally she could have harmed a lot of innocent people. Especially firing off 5 rounds. I think showing the gun would have been enough maybe.
It’s always easier to see what you should have done after the event. Lots of time to second guess yourself. But when on the frontline and you only have a split second to decide. How would you react. Hindsight is wonderful and all, but what do you do when you fear for your life and maybe your love ones. Would you try to chase down you attackers before they try to attack your family.
I wish I could have heard what the fight was about.

 

Next time, I’m wearing a bulletproof vest when I’m at Walmart.

 

When you pull out the gun you don't just brandish it, you use it. She was justified in the first few shots, but once they were out of her view she should have stopped and not pursued.

 

Maybe the first shot could be justified as self-defense since it would act as a deterrent. Moreover, it could have been attributed to panic.

But chasing after them and spraying bullets? Not at all; that was reckless retaliation which could resulted in innocent lives being harmed.

P.S. Whatever she was doing, she should've stopped the moment her attackers stopped attacking/ran away.

 

Adrenaline. And the reason why she didn’t get charged with attempted homicide was that legally she was justified in believing that her attackers constituted a clear threat on her life.

That attack did not look good. That woman had every right to be afraid, and use potentially lethal force to defend herself.

I wonder how much Amazon charges for bulletproof vests?

That attack came outa the blue. She was not trained as a police officer, she was scared and she justifiably overreacted.

Don you guys think I should get ceramic inserts on my bulletproof vest? Without, it should stop pistols...but if the crazies bring an FN 7, I’ll need ceramic inserts...

 

I feel like it we justified up until the point that she started chasing after them. Once they’re fleeing, you’re no longer defending yourself

 

Pulling out a gun is more than enough to stop a fist fight. If the other side had a weapon, sure. But shooting an unarmed person in middle of a busy store? You can kill innocent people by accident and is already overboard.

 

she got jumped. She not trained, she overreacted.

I really need to order a bulletproof vest.

 

It's inevitable.

 

...well, I think those who want to carry guns should be properly trained

 

IANAL...

AIUI the general thrust of "Self-Defense" shooting jurisprudence in the US is that if you fire your weapon you are required to be planning to kill someone because you are in fear of a threat to your life (or the lives of others), which means you shouldn't stop firing until your attacker(s) are down or gone, & attempting a "less-than-lethal" takedown means you weren't afraid of a risk to your life & thus weren't acting in self-defense.

So all shots taken while the attackers were in sight were not only appropriate, but mandatory if she were to have any hope of avoiding charges.

Chasing after an attacker however is more problematic, & is probably only valid if you can reasonably state that you believed not doing so endangered others.

TL;DR: If she had drawn her weapon (thus opening herself up to "Brandishing" charges), & not tried to kill her attackers with it she would probably have voided any attempt at using "Self-Defense" as a legal defense.

 

Kinda justified. Her going after the attackers cause she was afraid. Afraid of the threat so she decided to eliminate the threat, kinda like cape buffalloes curb stomping a lion.

 

well it's justified, for me that is,
they are inside the establishment who is enclosed,
they attacked me out of the blue inside a freaking public establishment,
so i need to make sure that my surroundings is safe, i'm not to sure that when the time i will be going out one of the assaulters would have bought a freaking knife then stab me,

 

so as a criminal justice major, everything up to the point she followed her attackers was justified. at the point where she followed them is where she messed up, well not so much as follow them, mainly because she shot after following is why she's in hot water now

 

I saw that. How did she ever get a licensed with that kind of form. It’s like she watch to many gun movies or something. Instead of any official training.

 

Thanks for the lawful description of what she should have done. I also felt that reaction seem to be the right action to take.

 

So lets say someone jumps you to steal your wallet, you pull out your gun and they faint out of fear. You are then required to shoot the unconscious body? Or what if you shoot them and they fall on the ground half-dead, you now have to finish them off?

While there might be a general legal perspective, situations are still evaluated on a case by case basis. You might be in a situation where you need to shoot due to self defense, but that situation changes.

 

So, I'm just gonna preface this with I'm a very anti-gun person, and you may see these views bleed into my post. I do however understand that guns are most dangerous in the hads of the untrained and the malicious. I can't do much about the latter, but I can try to deal with the former

Rule number 1 of civilian gun use: The primary purpose of a Concealed carry (CC) gun is to quell violence, not escalate it. Shooting should QUITE LITERALLY be your last resort (exceptions exist, but I'll get to that). If you need to be told this, this is especially true for you as your aim is likely atrocious, and atrocious aim is how you get charged for manslaughter.

Once a gun has been brought out, if your potential assailants immediately withdraw, you should immediately attempt to mediate the situation (asking that you be left alone, stating how you do not want to fire any rounds [and believe me, you do not. Even if your case is entirely justified, the stress isn't worth it] and that you'd much rather be left alone. The whole time this is happening, you trigger finger should be near, but never directly on, the trigger.

Should you assailants withdraw (and if they don't have guns on them, they very likely will), keep a watch and immediately dial 911 (or your local equivalent), explain to them what just happened and keep an eye out for police. Your gun should be kept at your waist the whole time, ready to be drawn, but non-threatening. Once the police arrive, (if you haven't already completely withdrawn your weapon for fear of a renewed attack) immediacy place your hands up and follow any instructions they give you, they will likely ask you to drop your gun on the floor at some point and back away from it. Do this neither quickly not slowly, with as few jerky movements as possible.

If you did a good job on your 911 call, the police should at this point be non-aggressive and take you in for questioning, be cooperative, you are most likely not in trouble if you followed all above steps.

Exception: Your assailants do not immediately withdraw.
Keep the gun trained on the closest one to you at all times, releasing the safety, but keeping your trigger finger close to, but separate from the trigger. Slowly back away, trying to maintain about 15 feet (like 3-4~ meters) between yourself and them. It is very likely that if you do the above and maintain calm while trying to verbally dissuade an attack, that you will not be attacked (do take care to make sure no one is coming from your blind spot though. Only fire shots if after doing all the above the assailants remain aggressive and ignore any warnings to stay away from you. And again (if safe) try to fire your first shot at the feet of your closest assailant before finally engaging with them.

Exception: Your assailant also has a gun.
This is the trickiest one, as experts aren't all in agreement on what the best course of action here is. It is advised that you do the following at some point though
i.) Try to verbally quell violence by immediately stating you do not want to fire shots
ii.) Release your safety and keep your finger very close to the trigger
iii.) Back away swiftly, but methodically (no jerky movements)
Iv.) Remain calm and try your best NOT to give off the impression that you want to shoot
V.) Ask any passerbys to call the police whilst keeping your eyes on the assailant (especially their face and hands)
VI.) And this is probably the most important point- DO NOT SHOW PANIC. You can panic on the inside, all normal people would do in this situation, just don't let it leak on to your face.


And for any who are going "Just answer OP's question you dumb Griffin"
No, I do not think the lady's reaction was proper, she could have seriously hurt someone, because she was too quick to shoot (phrasing)

I can't say if she deserves to be charged for attempted homicide, but some sort of charge along with revokal of her CC license is definitely something I'd go for.

 

Makes sense.

 

tbh if that was me I wouldve chased em down and force them to surrender. wait for the cops and laugh as theyre arrested