Discussion Highly overrated novel

I will say it again, Ratings, Rankings and Reviews are useless on nuf and should never be considered while choosing a book to read.

 

Editing is a very big deal. Accomplished authors can use the same editor for decades to maintain their writing style.
I made a thread a few months ago, pointing out that editors could be considered more important than the authors themselves.
It's very easy to prove. You can Google unedited books.

Gone With The wind is a famous example. The editor changed the name of the female lead to what is now world famous: Scarlett

 

Let me, a random guy who have read LOTM up to the latest chapter on RAW.

LOTM is a very good novel, it's probably one of the best when it comes to storyline, plot, and lore. I assume you dropped this novel below chapter 165. I'll be honest here, I almost dropped this novel because the first 162 chapters are SO FUCKING BORING. I even thought that the first 162 chapters are fillers, then chapter 163-165 came. chapter 163-165 completely turned my views at that time, it's tragic. and it's has been hinted since klein drank the seer potion.

Vol.1 of LOTM are very unique, it's like a puzzle. the author put the pieces of puzzle in those boring chapters, the peak of vol.1 is chapter 210 where all the puzzle are completed, creating a very amazing twist that no one saw that coming. for the very first time I smiled when I read webnovels/lightnovels because of the amazing twist.

Before we talk about characters, I have to tell you that my opinion regarding characters may be biased since I love characters that belong to the gray side. the protagonist and some side characters are ANNOYING AND DISGUSTING (I'm sure many LOTM fans will be pissed by my opinion regarding klein). Klein himself is your goody to shoes guy, but this is what made me feel disgusted. HE JUDGES OTHER PEOPLE FOR DOING BAD THINGS WHEN HE EATS OTHER BEYONDERS' REMAIN TO PROMOTE. it feels very hypocrite. and his "MORALS" is even more annoying, I find his "don't involve innocent into beyonders stuff" is very annoying. I'll give you an example

Spoiler: heavy spoiler

later on when he is a sequence 4, he has the ability to controls 50 living being and swaps place with them. he met an avatar of an angel, not ordinary angel, but one of Kings of Angels, needless to say that his life is in danger. the thing is he could escape by swapping position with other people BUT NO, he didn't FUCKING DO THAT because his morals that I mentioned before. normally this kind of character in this position would definitely be killed but thanks god he is the protagonist he didn't die. a sequence 1 beyonder of monster pathway came to save him. so what's the point of having the abillity to controls 50 living being if he doesn't use it.

and don't expect any Character Development because there is a fucked up and stupid rule, beyonders that do things against their morals or codes will lose control.

enough about klein, let's talk about side characters. I love some of the side characters like alger wilson, but the other side characters are meh. for example Emlyn White, he would be the most promising side character beside alger IF the author gave him an arc that made him grow as a person. but NO, the author would rather give him a comedic arc than an arc that made him grow.

So, if people say the storyline is very good, they are not exaggerating because it REALLY is very good. but if people say good things about MAIN CHARACTERS (ironically, the antagonist are much more interesting than main characters) especially Klein Moretti, they are exaggerating. the main characters beside Alger are bad so far. and I definitely would drop LOTM if the storyline wasn't this good.

World building 8/10
Plot and Storyline 9/10
Character Development 1/10

 

Not denying the novel premise is interesting, or that the side characters have depth and background. Not denying that I dropped it "early" either, around Chapter 100+. I do believe you (and other fans of the novel) when you say the content (plot/storyline) becomes good LATER. I even tried to read both the english and CN raws to figure out if I missed something.

But it's legit to do a proper review after 100 chapters (unlike the trolls who weigh in after only a dozen chapters). There's enough material to make a determination, and readers shouldn't have to slog through days/weeks of painful reading just to "get to the good part". And while the content may improve, I'm still not sure if the ridiculous verbosity and writing style ever fixes itself. Are random strangers/NPCs/mobs still going to be named and lead readers in every direction? Are there still going to be random conversations going nowhere? Will there still be tons of filler / tons of pointless red herrings? Is it still going to require tons of mental gymnastics just to follow along?

If the fans don't think any of this is important for a self-touted mystery novel, here are some links to explain, and why I believe all of the aforementioned problems were a deal-breaker as a mystery novel.
https://www.masterclass.com/article...tricks-for-writing-bestselling-mystery-novels
https://mainecrimewriters.com/2016/03/24/how-to-read-a-mystery-novel/
A mystery novel is not just about plot twists. Pacing, good writing and logical plot development are equally important. What's the point of writing every chapter like a "Where's Waldo"?

"One Piece" stands out as the long-running best example of an incredibly complex universe where EVERY introduced detail, even from the initial few chapters were intricately tied to later chapters. There was purpose. There was intent. I've been reading the manga since it started 18 yrs ago and it still boggles my mind how far Eichiro Oda planned ahead (based on his notes, he started storyboarding since he was in junior high).
http://www.onepiecepodcast.com/2015/07/22/the-one-piece-connection/
"Sherlock Holmes", "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy", etc are all the other great mystery works that were referenced in LOTM, as mentioned by @Wujigege . All of them also had details with purpose like One Piece.
Ok, so maybe I set the bar really high like some of the previous commentators said. But it's hard to separate that when you know what the standard bearer is.
If LOTM has the same standard where every detail, named character, conversation, etc, has purpose just like One Piece, then I'll take back what I said. But I'm pretty sure author just tried to mix pointless lore and slice-of-life elements into a mystery novel as filler to drag out the chapters.

Readers are spoiled for choice with all the available content out there (print media, webnovels, manga, TV, movies, etc). If you watch an anime that sucks in the beginning, you don't carry past 3 episodes no matter how great it may become. If a TV series gets bad reception after the first few pilot episodes, it gets cancelled asap. This is common and acceptable practice. Why should LOTM be any different?

Again, I'm not denying the love that fans of the novel have for it. I can respect that they (and you) have the time and patience to grind through the first few hundred chapters. Even the sci-fi series "Firefly" gained a cult following despite it's cancellation.
But a hardcore fandom and a few good bits of a novel shouldn't be an excuse to overlook it's flaws, and the novel should be objectively evaluated.

TLDR: It doesn't really matter how amazing a novel becomes in later stages. Just like how we complain when a novel starts out great and craps out later or has a bad ending.
At least the latter allowed the audience to enjoy the journey ... calling out to Game of Thrones fans

 

Actually thought "Reincarnator" was decent. Not the best written for sure, but I think it was the first of it's kind (2015) to introduce current world (all of humanity is involved) + apocalypse + "dungeons". Everything else came later.

Everyone is a Returnee (2016)
Seoul Stations Necromancer (2016)
Master Hunter K (2016)
King of the Battlefield (2016)
The Tutorial is too Hard (2016)
The Second Coming of Gluttony (2017)

Gotta give credit where credit is due.

EDIT: I think only "Solo Leveling / I Alone Level Up" (2014) was technically earlier, but it was a crappy novel. The amazing manhwa adaptation took it to prominence. Any korean readers who are familiar with Munpia can probably correct me.

 

It is a good idea but to me Reincarnator is crappy. TKTB is much better, EER is better, SSN is much better, Master Hunter K and even that Korean high school novel, Sovereign of Judgement? is better.

 

Well, isn't it obvious? This shitty novel got unreasonable amount of 5* rating way too quickly. I mean, it appeared pretty recently (3 months?) yet it has more than 1200 5* ratings. Most of the novels after being in the various tops for years do not have as much. Site doesn't have so many active rating users to promote a novel of subpar quality like this disastrous trash in natural way.
Also, my negative review which got a pretty high amount of likes (23 in a week) just fking disappeared.
Looks like artificially boosting the rating isn't enough for them.

 

Something something different tastes...I will however agree that it is overrated, I'm also not sure why you'd look at ratings on NU. Check some of the reviews on novels you're knowledgeable on and you'll see all kinds of people, some reviewers seem outright insane or on drugs.

 

I don't know what you meant by "lead readers in every direction". all I can say is all characters are important, even some random dude that you may have thought unimportant character might be someone who held the key to the entire arc. and this has been proven.

yes I agree that there are some chapters where the whole chapters are filled with useless conversation, but this only happens in vol.1 imo.

there won't be pointless red herrings in the novel. and the only filler in the novel was the chapter about MC cooking for his siblings. like I said before, vol. 1 is unique. those boring and seemingly unimportant chapters are actually pieces of puzzle that will be completed in chapter 210. so no filler at all

yes, but not tons. the lore itself is full of conspiracy, what were told in the earlier chapters might be proven wrong by the clues left by the author. the authors won't directly tell readers about what's going on, instead the author will left clues here and there and when the shit is revealed, it's not something that comes out of nowhere. in other words, this is a mind provoking novel. this kind of novel may be not most people's cup of tea. I'll give you an example

Spoiler: example

later on, klein and his sibling wanted to watch an opera called "the return of the count" and bought the tickets. few chapters later some big shit happens. it turns out the tickets are clue to the big shit that happens later on, the "return of the count" ticket is actually a reference to shakespeare's Count of Monte Cristo. and it's beautifully excecuted

the only bad things of this novel is the lack of character development and main character. it's almost nonexistense

 

Thanks for clarifying with some of the spoilers earlier, gives me a better understanding of what's ahead. A lot of the other reviewers refuse to provide supporting info about why they think the novel is great. Just that it's AMAZING! Or that there are CRAZY PLOT TWISTS! You get the idea ...

But just to confirm, you're saying that the tons of random named characters that appeared very briefly like
- "Mr Gusev" (randomly mentioned in an ad in Chapter 29) ,
- "Jenny" (randomly mentioned as MC's-sister's-acquaintance in Chapter 29)
- "Mrs Rochelle" (randomly mentioned as MC's-sister's-acquaintance/neighbor/seamstress in Chapter 29 and 70)
- "Mrs Wendy Smyrin" (the baker who constantly reappears selling bread and MC and her haggling over the price of bread),
- "Chris" (MC's-sister's-friend's-brother who appeared for a whole lengthy paragraph as a nonsense example of the difficulties of saving money when you get married)
- "Scarter" (the real estate agent that helped MC find a house in Chapter 29-30)
- .....

All of these hundreds and hundreds of named characters, that appeared for 1 paragraph or 1 chapter, are key to entire arcs? They all have vital significance for this mystery novel?

In case you doubt the number, it's been verified by some Chinese readers who kept a log of all the named characters who had enough detail to warrant tracking (over 170+) as of Dec 2018. i.e. the number of named characters is actually much higher.
They sound very normal based on most of their character descriptions and obvious lack of powers (supernatural or political).
http://dq.tieba.com/p/5974071388

If they are ALL of significance then I really have nothing to say. But if they are not, then this is where I struggle with LOTM as a mystery novel, because that's clearly poor mystery writing. That's pointless complexity. That's obvious verbosity to add filler.

Again, naming a character implies significance. If you name everyone, then everyone becomes a possible suspect / significant character. This is where readers who actually read it properly (as every fan/reviewer of LOTM keeps telling me to do) get led in the wrong direction. I naturally have to consider that "Scarter" the real estate agent might be a mysterious operative who is deliberately trying to get close to the MC. Maybe that the "Tingen City Housing Improvement Company" is really a front for some evil organization? And if those are all not true, then they are just filler / nonsensical red herrings (and there are a lot).

Long-running manga like One Piece has over 1000 characters, and all of them had critical interactions with the One Piece crew (bad guys to fight, allies to help). You don't see a random sailor in One Piece (out of the thousands working for the World Govt) having a name. The named characters are typically self-contained in episodes. And yea One Piece is NOT a mystery novel.
https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Canon_Characters
Other long-running novels like "I Shall Seal the Heavens" (NOT a mystery novel), similarly have a large cast of named characters which actually have significance. The shorter arcs mean that some core characters stay on while others logically drop out to the wayside and are never mentioned again.

Filler also includes things like lengthy descriptions on things that make no sense. Like how he walks. How much money he spent for bread (EVERY TIME). etc. We could gloss over this kind of writing in a typical wuxia/xianxia novel because those authors never push it too far (millions of power stones/gold/etc to buy a priceless artifact). But "Cuttlefish That Loves Diving" went to ridiculous levels with this one ... when a novel starts telling you how much exact change you get (as if you don't know how to do math), there's a word count problem.

TLDR: A novel doesn't get to style itself as a mystery novel while having these kinds of fillers and flawed writing. You can't have your cake and eat it too for this genre.
If fans still like it despite the flaws, that's totally ok. But it's offensive and juvenile when fans keep telling me:
- I'm a dumbass because I didn't read it properly.
- Or to just keep reading and eventually it'll get "better", without clarifying if all of the prev writing problems would repeat itself.
- Or that every detail matters, even though it clearly doesn't, otherwise we have completely different definitions of "detail".
- Or that I'm a dumbass who has no right to review if I didn't read past 263 chapters...
Those were actually some of the anti-reviews posted after me, some of which were later deleted.

On a side note, totally agreed that lack of character development would be a problem. I did find it odd that MC and his crew just go about becoming Dragonball figures and powering up, nothing else. Seemed kinda boring.
Don't really understand how a Chinese transmigrator can suddenly fit in so well into 19th century England, or be a cold, hard, calculative figure even though his previous personality wasn't as such (he suddenly knows how to hoodwink the Tarot Club people despite meeting them for the first time?).
Even if he inherited some knowledge from previous owner, there's no way he can easily adopt the habitual speech patterns, language, and mannerisms since they would naturally conflict with his own. Just talk to any Chinese immigrant in London, even if he's been there decades, and see if he speaks like a Brit or not.

 

Btw it is 1 year 8 months old since translation started, you need to click on eye icon near Toc to check old release dates which are hidden. Still waiting on this one to collect more chapters before I give it a try.

 

Yeah, my bad here. It's just that I've never seen this novel before it changed the translator. I've seen comments about it before, but didn't pay it any heed. As far as I remember it wasn't nearly close enough to the top in any category, though I didn't really check the most recent ones futher than the 1/2nd page. I'm into popular (all). The first time I've noticed it was when it appeared in the top with a new translator who was into 30-40th chapters.

 

Rankings are decided by the release rate of the novels and the active readers. It used to have a slow-release rate which is why it was not in high ranking I would guess. Ranking is only good to look for a novel with stable release, most readers use tags to search for the novels. It was licensed so it should be fairly popular back then.

 

This is the case for most "rebirth" novels where the MC remembers the past. It's a plague.
I argue it's NOT fun when the character knows exactly what to do and where to go.

One way around that I saw done well Is Second Life Ranker, where MC receives memories from his brother, however he still hast to face the challenges on his own terms.

 

Tales of Herding god

yes the novel pre 300 chapter was really good since it didnt follow revenge and usual crap troupe xianxia novel suffer from which i give credit for but its got too many 5s reviews for a world that isnt conisistent and mc whos at 2nd lowest realm already out playing gods and and shit

 

Peerless Martial God is one of the most cliched and overrated. MC is your typical arrogant xianxia protagonist that runs around offending people. People try to kill or cripple the MC to get revenge but end up killed or crippled by the MC, even if they are several cultivation realms above the MC. Every time the MC is about to get killed, mysterious forces or old farts show up to protect the MC. Huge cast of characters, most of whom are useful for only a few arcs and never show up again. Most of the female characters (even the strong ones) are only there to be part of MC's harem. I could go on and on...

 

those characters won't get mentioned anymore, in other words, fillers.

the MYSTERY part of LOTM is more about the mystery of the world MC transmigrates to, not some mysteries you usually find in detective novel or manga. I think it's safe to say that LOTM is not a mystery novel because MC tries to find the truth of the world instead of murder cases lol. if you enjoy the story where MC trying to find the secrets and mysteries of the world, you will definitely like this novel. so why is the title of the novel "Lord of the Mysteries" ?

Spoiler: spoiler ahead

it's related to his pathway, mystery pathway. and sequence 1 of "fool" pathway is "Servant of Mysteries". there's a good theory about pathway in the spoiler thread https://forum.novelupdates.com/posts/5230779/

how about this, try to read up to chapter 210. I'll give you 5k nuffies if you still don't like it as compensation for your time wasted on it.

btw, I'm not gonna say things like "this novel is the best" because it's definitely not the best novel here. but it's a better novel IMO

 

I have never seen anyone actually rate this novel, at least not enough to say its overrated.

 

It is true, but also not really. There are about 30% of people who just rate everything 5/5. Usually, if the novel has less than 50% 5/5 ratings on nuf then it means that it isn't good at all, at least based on currently translated chapters. If the novel has more than 60% of 5/5 rating then it can be to your liking depending on your preferences. And if it has 80%+ 5/5 ratings then it is likely that the novel has something really special to be proud of, at least at the beginning. Many highly rated novels become worse later, but almost all of them has a very good beginning.

 

you're wrong and its not stated anywhere that you will lose control if you act against your morals. Every pathway is different and for those that understand the path they re walking most act the part like a script in a movie to until they completely assimilate it , if they don't they lose control its just like you expecting a tiger to eat grass it won't work because its against it nature its a carnivore not a herbivore or an omnivore. Becoming a beyonder its like changing into an animal if you choose a pathway that needs you to act like a pick pocket you do it if you instead decides to act like a armed robber you will case a conflict between the beyonder portion and your subconscious