Spoiler About Ascendance of a Bookworm

Discussion in 'Spoilers' started by Yumika12345, Mar 16, 2017.

  1. jcochran

    jcochran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2019
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    75
    Reading List:
    Link
    Considering that "Gossiping by the Well" happens about 1 year after Urano's arrival and that the first few days after her arrival she cried about quite a few things. Getting clothed by her "father". Using the chamber pot while a family member watches. Not being able to find any books. Etc., etc., etc. I could definitely see the description "crybaby" applying to her during that time frame.

    Edit: Just looked up language development for children. Seems that for the 1st 3 years of life or so, a child is pretty much not understandably verbal to strangers. Get to be real chatterboxes their 4th year, but still quite primitive. So from the point of view of Effa from the time frame of the side story, over half of the time where Myne is understandably verbal, Urano is the one controlling the body. And is the most recent and hence rememberable activities. That puts a really nasty hole in the theory of "old Myne" talking about her dreams and makes it far more likely that anything mentioning her dream world is just Urano complaining about her current situation or wishing to be back in her old world.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
  2. jcochran

    jcochran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2019
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    75
    Reading List:
    Link
    Just skimmed chapters 154 and 155. First because I was having trouble believing that Dirk had more power than Myne, but that was alleviated quite quickly with the author explicitly stating the Dirk had more power than Myne at the same age. But in my opinion that conflicted with the test performed by Ferdinand which indicated that Dirk had maybe a little more power than a mid-rank noble. And the later use by Myne of a Tao fruit where Myne had Dirk touch it first to drain some magic and then she touched it to complete its ripening because she wanted to make some trombe paper in order to experiment with making a wax stencil. Those facts seemed to be in conflict with Dirk having more power. So I thought about the matter a bit more. It seemed that Dirk was a simple middle of the road noble as regards power and Myne was a scarily powerful abnormality. What was different about Myne?

    Then it struck me. Myne had been compressing her magic, starting at age 5. For those nobles who were capable of compressing magic didn't even learn or attempt the process until at least the age of 10 at the joint noble school they started going to at age 10. Additionally, the descriptions provided by the instructors to the noble children were rather confusing and unhelpful making the effectiveness of their compression rather low whereas Myne had a vivid, clear mental image of what she wanted to do making her compression more effective. And the better the compression skill, the more powerful you become as evidenced by Damuel, who's power went from low-noble to mid-noble after Myne explained her own method of compressing her power and he started practicing compressing using her mental imagery. And finally, after learning how to compress magic, there's the matter of actually practicing and acquiring skill. For the nobles, their motivation is "it will make you stronger". For Myne, her motivation is "if you don't do it, you will die". I'm pretty sure that Myne has a far more effective motivator than any noble. So in summary:

    Noble: Don't learn compression until at least age 10.
    Myne: Started compressing at age 5.

    Noble: Once a compression method is learned, stick with it.
    Myne: Once current capacity filled, try another method of compressing magic. Otherwise, she's dead.

    Noble: Practice if you want to get better.
    Myne: If you stop working on it, well you're gonna die.

    So we have evidence of Myne learning earlier, better, and practicing far more diligently. Add in the evidence that better compression will result in more power, and we have an extremely good explanation of why Myne is scarily powerful in the magic department. And it's quite unlikely that Myne will ever allow her method of magic compression to be taught to young children, because in her own words in chapter 261, "I choose the current situation where eleven people become blue priests, rather than ten dead and one noble." And she's currently enforcing her restriction on teaching the new method via magical contracts with everyone she teaches.
     
  3. TUSF

    TUSF Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2015
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    236
    Reading List:
    Link
    A weak argument like that doesn't put a hole in any theory at all.
    You pretend as though child Myne was completely unable to talk, the day before Urano took over, but like you said, they're not "understandably verbal" to STRANGERS. To family members and people they talk with often, 3 year olds may talk a bit simply, but are very much understandable. There would have been at least a whole two or so years where Myne's speech would be understandable to family, and Myne's vocabulary and grammar was already extensive enough to be usable by the time Urano "awoke".

    And again, this all ignores the fact that she (Urano) never mentions a dream world to Effa in her POV, whereas Effa seems to imply that Myne would *always* talk about these dreams after a fever during her "crybaby phase"—which wouldn't make sense if we assume this was Urano complaining about her situation, who was less worried about going to her dream world and "sleeping forever", and more interested in finding books.
     
  4. jcochran

    jcochran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2019
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    75
    Reading List:
    Link
    All I can say is that let's just agree to disagree.
     
  5. EmptySilence

    EmptySilence New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2019
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Reading List:
    Link
    Where did you all find these chapters? I only found up to chapter 127 online whede myne was making inc
     
  6. Nighthawlc

    Nighthawlc Nyan nyan nyan nyan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2017
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    181
    Reading List:
    Link
    Through reading the untranslated WN.
    Also a heads up, that "chapter 127" you found is actually "chapter 112 part 3" . The people that do the releases on NovelUpdates after chapter 103 split chapters into pieces and pretend the pieces are full chapters.
     
  7. jcochran

    jcochran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2019
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    75
    Reading List:
    Link
    Using a machine translation of the web novel. Honestly, it's better than the Flying Lines trash.
    Using Google Chrome, just go to http://ncode.syosetu.com/n4830bu/ and then have it translate the page for you (can set an option to always translate Japanese if you want). The translation is most definitely poor (wrong gender for pronouns. Sometimes opposite meaning from intended, etc). But still usable if you pay attention to context. And as @Nighthawlc said, it's not translated to chapter 127, but only 112 since Flying Lines doesn't bother to label their submissions cXpartY unlike other, better translators who sometimes breaks a web novel chapter into multiple parts.

    If you have problems remembering the URL for the web novel, the trick I use is to look up Ascendance of a Bookworm on wikipedia. Near the bottom of that page is a link to the web novel.
     
    mysticalavalon and lady-kyo like this.
  8. jcochran

    jcochran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2019
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    75
    Reading List:
    Link
    Just started to listen to an audio book version of Ascendance of a Bookworm and what I heard at the beginning of "A New Life" pretty much answers the question who's really in Myne's body. To quote:
    ...It’s so hot. It hurts. I hate thiiis...
    A child’s voice cried out directly into my head, filled with pain and suffering.
    Well, what do you want me to do about that? I had no idea what to do, and over time the voice grew increasingly quiet.
    The moment I realized I couldn’t hear the child’s voice anymore, the bubble-esque thing that had been encapsulating me disappeared with a burst, and I felt my consciousness slowly rising up.
    At the same time, I felt a hot fever and pain spread throughout my body as if I had been afflicted with influenza. I nodded and agreed with the child, This certainly is hot and it certainly does hurt. I hate it too.
    But the child’s voice didn’t reply.​
    The answer is that the original Myne and Urano never occupied that body simultaneously. The timeline of events is:
    1. Urano dies under an avalanche of books.
    2. Urano's spirit is encapsulated and put in Myne, unable to do anything except listen to Myne's thoughts.
    3. Urano's spirit continues to listen to Myne's thoughts until Myne finally dies.
    4. Urano's spirit is released from the bubble and takes over the freshly emptied body. At this time, Urano is then able to actually use the bodies senses and is capable of controlling the bodies motions. Prior to this point Urano had no control, nor was able to sense anything except Myne's thoughts as she was dying.

    A couple of pages later when Effa enters the room and starts talking to Myne, Urano gets a flood of memories from Myne's body.

    There's no way I can imagine the opening paragraphs of "A New Life" being interpreted as anything other than Urano's spirit witnessing Myne's death and then taking over the newly empty corpse. Urano had no sensation of the fever or pain until after the "bubble-esque thing" burst, and that bursting happened the moment that Urano stopped hearing the child's voice.

    Edit: Just looked at the WN and noticed that the child's voice isn't mentioned. So I'm assuming this is an example of the author clarifying her intent for the light novel because it wasn't clear enough in the web novel.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
    Yuukiyuki and MusicSounds like this.
  9. Nighthawlc

    Nighthawlc Nyan nyan nyan nyan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2017
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    181
    Reading List:
    Link
    TUSF likes this.
  10. TUSF

    TUSF Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2015
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    236
    Reading List:
    Link
    So… going by google translate, it appears the author is agreeing that Urano and Myne had the same soul…?
    So I was right?

    Can someone who actually knows Japanese (and not just MTL) confirm/deny? lol
     
    Yuukiyuki likes this.
  11. 7midnight

    7midnight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2018
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    35
    Reading List:
    Link
    Thank you for the spoiler. No I can unfollow the manga. Lutz is the only reason I like this story. I was hoping to read the continuation of his relationship with Maine. Now I know that it won't happen, I can finally stop reading.

    I never like Maine character to begin with but because of her sweet moment with lutz I keep reading. Not saying that the plot is bad, the story is actually very good, it just that Maine character/personality is not my cup of tea.

    So thank you so much for giving spoiler. I can stop wasting my time reading it now.
     
  12. Bakanogami

    Bakanogami Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2016
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    548
    Reading List:
    Link
    She's replying to someone asking about if they were the same person just with Urano's memories suddenly returning, or if original Myne was killed and Urano was a different person who took over.

    She says that how she thought of it when writing was that Urano's memory and personality from her past life were at the bottom, and memories of the next life wrap up and cover those memories, developing Myne's consciousness. Normally the experiences of living would thickly cover those memories of a past life and they would never come to the surface. But Myne's disease ate away at her self-consciousness, and trapped in bed she was unable to form any new experiences.

    The only place where Myne could experience new things was in her dreams (presumably of Urano's memories), where she could run, eat as much as she wanted, do what she wanted. And so Myne started thinking about how she wanted to sleep and dream forever, how she wanted to be Urano. She resented her father who wouldn't let her do anything, her mother for not giving her a healthy body, and Tulli for always having fun outside.

    When she was close to death, what she reached for wasn't her family but Urano's memories, throwing away her own self and becoming Urano out of her own free will. Even if she got Urano's memories and personality she was still in Myne's sickly body, but her child's brain didn't really grasp that.
     
    mysticalavalon, Jukki and TUSF like this.
  13. TUSF

    TUSF Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2015
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    236
    Reading List:
    Link
    Gotcha, thanks for verifying. That's more or less what I understood from the Machine Translation too.
    So it seems relatively clear that Myne's past dreams were likely from her life as Urano, although I wouldn't have extrapolated that the reason Urano's ego emerged was because Myne herself wished for it, but it does put into context the child's crying that Urano remembered before awakening.
     
  14. MusicSounds

    MusicSounds New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2019
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Reading List:
    Link
    Actually, I have a theory after reading all the above replies. Basically, it's a summary.

    Urano died after being crushed by her own books, and was reincarnated as Myne from the start. Since normal reincarnations would effectively have new experiences wrap around the soul's old consciousness and "devour" it like the devouring would, Urano remained in a state similar to hibernation whilst Myne's consciousness developed.

    In the anime's first episode, Urano's first day as Myne was shown. Before she awoke in her bed, she heard fading voices saying "It's so hot... I can't breathe... I can't take this anymore!", likely when the devouring ate away the final shreds of Myne's consciousness and Urano awakened from within. The voice was not audible to the outside - instead, it was within Myne's body, where Myne's thoughts faded into nothingness as the consciousness of "Myne" was devoured forever, exposing and awakening "Urano" from within.

    What would've happened if in Lutz's main if Urano decided to let herself be devoured? Well, I think as Urano said, only a corpse would remain because both "Myne" and "Urano" would be gone. However, how "Urano" remained preserved and untouched when ascended was because "Myne" had too little life experience to overwrite "Urano" for reasons mentioned in comments before this. (She was sick and couldn't leave home)

    Basically, since Urano had lived and died, she had enough experience to overwrite her soul's consciousness before she was Urano.

    Ultimately, Urano and Myne are the same soul, but different people. If that makes sense.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  15. bittervalley1

    bittervalley1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2019
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    250
    Reading List:
    Link
    Just found this topic and browsed through it. Interesting to see some people addicted enough to go through the pain of reading through MTL all the way to the end. I kind of understand that once you start on this story, you want more and more. When I discovered this WN (original) last summer, I read all 667 chapters in about two weeks. I believe it was more than 100 hours of reading. I was barely alive, with 3,4 hours of sleep everyday. I just couldn't stop. Then, I read it again, next time over two months or so, and then I started buying all the LN and reading them too.

    The strong impression I had with this series is that I like it so much more than Harry Potter series, although it takes as long as 12 volumes before arriving at the Hogwarts of this world. I had many friends who enjoyed Harry Potter, and I really wanted my friends to enjoy this series too, so I was really glad when J-novel licensed it and started working on it.

    I hang out at J-novel forum, but often feels quite restrained because I cannot participate in the speculation discussion because I know most of the answer. Maybe I can have my fix here.

    One question. I see people using spoiler tag. What is the criteria for using spoiler tag.... in a spoiler forum?
     
  16. TUSF

    TUSF Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2015
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    236
    Reading List:
    Link
    Far as I can figure, people use 'em whenever they feel like it. lol
     
  17. bittervalley1

    bittervalley1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2019
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    250
    Reading List:
    Link
    She is in the 4th grade at the end and hasn't graduated yet, so she hasn't reached adulthood. She claims to be 14, although she is actually 15 due to doing baptism twice (one as commoner and one as novel).
     
  18. Zeals25

    Zeals25 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2019
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Reading List:
    Link
    I have only read up till the end of part 2, but has there been any mentions of the smaller part 1 characters like Otto, Corinna, Mark or even Freida ever since then?

    I'm guessing most of their roles are probably finished by part 3. There's hardly any mentions of Freida outside part 1. Out of all of them, I could see Mark probably following Benno on his noble district business with Rosemyne? But otherwise, I'm wondering does the WN ending tie up all of Myne's relations (cause she had met and befriend a ton of people) or is the ending just focused on her family and Ferdinand.
     
  19. PickPonkan

    PickPonkan Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2019
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    1
    Reading List:
    Link
    Otto, Corinna still appear in part 4 and 5 mostly talking about clothes and hairpin. Freida MIA after part 3.

    The main story is focused to Myne's Family and Ferdinand.
    The remaining matters I think will be answered in After Stories or WN SS.
    But right now the author is really busy with LN and anime.

    According to her web, there will be 4 after stories from the other POV
    1. Hannalore POV (about Hannalore wedding, and a bit of Myne's life after the epilogue in 5th grade Noble Court ) = still unfinished
    2. Dermuel POV ( about Dermuel and Filine, Graduation Ceremony in Noble Court, maybe some cameo from Ehrenfest : Aub, Karsted, Elvira, Melhior ? ) = not yet written
    3. Gilvester POV ( about Ferdinand and Myne's Starbind Ceremony ) = not yet written
    4. Gill POV ( Plantin Company around 2-10 years later? ) = not yet written
     
    mysticalavalon likes this.
  20. bittervalley1

    bittervalley1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2019
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    250
    Reading List:
    Link
    Never seen those references to 2,3,4. Could you point me to where you saw them?