Discussion [Poll] Your friend is too attractive...

Oh, a case example of why *not* to move from 2D to 3D.

Sometimes, I hate people.

 

It's hard to make a case for the outsider since the information is third hand, but I think the relationship between the attractive friend and the boyfriend/girlfriend is toxic.

It almost seems like the attractive friend is just using the boyfriend/girlfriend as a tool for self validation and is jealous now that they're in a relationship. This kind of thing is extremely disrespectful and unfair to the boyfriend/girlfriend and also unhealthy for the attractive friend. Confidence should primarily come from within, not from others.

Even if I'm wrong about that aspect of the relationship, the very fact that they would even consider using those screenshots to break up their friend's relationship without permission shows that they are more toxic, manipulative, and jealous than the outsider could ever be.

 

Since you've said they are actual people and this isn't a theoretical thing I'll just treat it as if it were my friends in both scenarios. I'll go through each point along the way.

Scenario A: The girlfriend

You can't control who your partner is attracted to and you shouldn't try. It is natural for people in a loving, healthy relationship to be attracted to other people and still be loving and faithful to each other. He is allowed to be attracted to other people and you are too.

You can't control people outside of your relationship either. Trying will only lead to failure and make you more miserable. He is allowed to hang out with his friends, just like you are allowed to hang out with yours. It is not up to you to decide what kind of presents other people can get him. It is not up to you to attempt to dictate how much pleasure he gets from gifts, whether it's from you or someone else.

Confronting your boyfriend over all of this was a mistake. Confrontations lead to arguments, close-minded thinking, judgment. That's not what you wanted, right? I'm sure you love him a whole lot or you wouldn't be feeling so anxious, hurt and confused. When you want to know the truth from someone, especially someone you love and in such a sensitive situation, confrontation is the worst option you could choose. Instead of accusing him and starting a fight, take some time alone with him. No-one else. One on one. Tell him how you feel. Tell him about how insecure you feel, abut how sad this whole mess makes you. Do your best to explain the truth of what you're going through without making it his fault or trying to push him to give you the answers you want. Be honest. Without interrogating him, let him tell you how he feels and accept what he says is exactly what he means. You might not agree with it. You might not like it, but you can't expect him to hear you out if you're not willing to do the same.

As well as having a heart to heart you need to do some thinking. There's this old saying I remember reading "Even if you lie to everyone else, be honest with yourself". I've already said you can't control other people and even if it's cliche, the only person you can be responsible for is you. I've been asked by people before "...But what if they cheat?" or "I do/say [X] because they're up to no good". Baby, again, IT IS NOT YOUR ROLE TO POLICE YOUR PARTNER. If someone wants to cheat, they cheat. It doesn't matter how vigilant you are, it doesn't matter how virtuous you are, faithful partners stay faithful and cheaters cheat as sure as the sun sets and the moon rises. Stop torturing yourself with what-ifs and focus on the here and now because it's all you can do. What are you doing to keep yourself healthy and happy? What can you change? A healthy person is well-balanced and happy all by themselves. A loving relationship adds to your happiness, it can't make up for what you lack. If you're not sure how to create that for yourself, seek out examples and people you look up to. What do they do that you should be doing? Learn from them.

You are responsible for creating a good life for yourself by making choices that get you closer to your goals. Your boyfriend is your lover, not your dad, not your therapist and not your knight in shining armour. He is a man who loves and supports you and that's all he's supposed to be. You are his girlfriend. Not his mother, not his therapist, not his probation officer. It is good enough for you to be an ordinary woman who loves her man and wants the best for him. Mutual trust and respect are important foundations for a loving and healthy relationship. You can't have a happy and fulfilling relationship without these two things. If you want to be in a relationship with each other either work on it or kiss each other goodbye.

Maybe this will be the catalyst that gets you and your boyfriend to a better place, to a deeper appreciation of each other. Maybe you'll grow up a little together bit by bit and be able to work on your issues in yourselves and in your relationship. Maybe it'll go the other way and one or both of you will realize that you're not ready for that or that you want something different. I'm speaking from experience when I say, either way, you will be okay eventually if you choose to be. It's up to you.

 

Love is chemical brain play
good looking is genetic
No one wrong with this
blame your ancestors to evolve like this

 

2 main problems are lack of boundaries and miscommunication.

 

1. What would you do in Scenario A (Outsider Boyfriend/Girlfriend)?
My partner can't do anything about feeling attracted to someone. Although I wouldn't like it very much, what matters the most is the actions taken. In scenario A, it seems I don't know they playfully flirt with each other (and have always been, that's just how their "friendship" or so works). So I probably wouldn't have a huge problem with it. I trust that if my partner is in a mutually agreed on mono relationship with me, they won't intimately interact with someone else. So aside from telling them it makes me uncomfortable to see them attracted to someone close to them (and in case I did know they flirt playfully, ask them to keep it to a minimum cause that makes me uncomfortable too), I wouldn't try to do much about it or limit their actions. Cause after all, stuff like that can't be controlled... I'll just accept this level of discomfort and trust them. If they do sth I consider cheating though and I find out about it, then good riddance.

2. What would you do in Scenario B (Attractive Friend Perspective)?
Try to limit the playful flirting with my friend cause that can be massively misunderstood and make my friend's partner jealous. I would ask my friend if they're really comfortable with how they're acting now (e.g. not doing sth anymore that they've always liked and doing sth they never liked before because of their partner). Aside from sitting them down for a talk about this, I won't do much.

2. Is anybody right here? Is anyone wrong?
There's not enough info to come to a conclusion about that. What I can say is though that (if scenario A and B are the same, just from a different perspective) everyone involved needs to step their honest communication game the fuck up lmao.

3. Should you separate from your existing old friends if you start dating someone?
I wouldn't recommend it. Your friends are a part of "you" too, and although compromises are necessary in a relationship, it shouldn't be to a degree where you cut off a previously important part of "yourself".

4. Would you be jealous if your boyfriend/girlfriend had a close friendship with someone who is the same gender as you? What if that person is especially attractive?
Sure I would, particularly so if they're flirty and my partner has the hots for their attractive friend like in this scenario. Generally though, someone being attractive doesn't mean my partner is attracted to them more than to me or even attracted to them at all. And well, as I said, even if my partner's attracted to their friend, they chose me to be in a relationship with cause they like me the most (in that way) and wanna be with me. Simple attraction isn't much compared to the desire to be in a committed relationship with someone and the conscious effort to maintain it that way.

5. Bonus Question: Which one do you think is @lychee's friend? xD

+1
The friend's partner in scenario B sounds like much more of a douche than the attractive friend in scenario A.

 

I split my answer up since I knew it was going to be long. Hope it helps.

Scenario B: The Attractive Friend

Some of my closest friends are attractive men. The majority of them are in fulfilling, loving relationships. One or two of them even got married and a couple of them have beautiful children with their loving SO's. My best friend is an attractive man too. All of them are my brothers, my family and we share loving and respectful bonds.

From one attractive friend to another you are fooling no-one.

You have every right to think and feel what you wish to.
You have every right to voice your honest concerns to your friend.
You do not have the right to interfere in your friend's relationship.

You, my friend, are the epitome of the female version of the "Nice Guy". You are in fact, the "Nice Girl". You pretend to care about your guy friend's happiness and well-being by highlighting every little flaw you see in your friend's girlfriend, but then trip yourself up by admitting you've actively planned out how to sabotage his relationship. As for your messages being 'taken out of context', oh boy. When you're innocent, there's nothing to be taken out of context because there's no shade available to throw. You deliberately carry on in a manner you know will make the girlfriend feel jealous and insecure and you've even contemplated using it to your advantage. How selfish of you. I guess the only thing holding you back is the fact your guy friend would learn that you're really a snake in disguise.


1. What would you do in Scenario A (Outsider Boyfriend/Girlfriend)?
Talk to my boyfriend honestly and tell him what I'm thinking and feeling instead of blowing up at him and blaming him. I'd ask him sincerely what he thinks and feels and work from there. I wouldn't involve his friend since his friend isn't part of our relationship in the first place.

2. What would you do in Scenario B (Attractive Friend Perspective)?
Well, I wouldn't be sneaky and cunning and plot to drive them apart like the attractive friend. Attractive being a relative term of course, because you can cover a turd in gold, but it's still a turd. Honestly speaking, if I had concerns about the relationship I would voice them and then leave it to my friend. It's his life to live, not mine.

2. Is anybody right here? Is anyone wrong?
There's this reddit forum called r/AmITheAhole and honestly this scenario reminds me of some of the stories I've seen in there. The girlfriend is still immature and needs to work on herself first. I have no impression of the boyfriend either way. The best friend isn't a friend at all. If I had a friend like that I'd cut them off real quick. Like a tumour.

3. Should you separate from your existing old friends if you start dating someone?
It depends on what those friends are like. If my friends aren't healthy for me, yes. Otherwise, no. My relationship partner will get my primary energy of course, but I'd still love for, care for and make time for my friends.

4. Would you be jealous if your boyfriend/girlfriend had a close friendship with someone who is the same gender as you? What if that person is especially attractive?
No. I have model and ex-model friends. I have non-model friends that are also attractive. My partners have/had extremely attractive friends. The important point is that they're friends, not their level of attractiveness. As long as they're happy with their friends that's all that matters. It's not for me to dictate to my partner who they can be friends with and it's not for them to lay down the law with me either. Personally, I'm not the type to get jealous easily, but if I did, I would just tell my partner how I'm feeling and deal with it. It's my issue, not theirs. They're here to love and support me, not baby me. I think it's fine to be jealous as long as your actions don't become controlling, toxic or abusive.

5. Bonus Question: Which one do you think is @lychee's friend? xD
The Attractive Friend.


For the poll, I chose neutral. Even if I was asked to mediate by the couple themselves I'd really have to cherish them as good friends before choosing to intervene. I feel people should learn most of their life lessons on their own in order to grow and evolve.

 

First of all, I'm gonna assume that we're extremely close friends, and that my friend's girlfriend is somewhat just merely an acquantance to me, vice versa...

I would privately discuss about my insecurities with the both of them. They are, after all, partially in the wrong. Boundaries need to be made with people who are already in a relationship. Especially regarding the opposite sex. It's natural to be jealous, is it not...

I would properly straighten out my friend's relationship, and tell his girlfriend that it's all a simple misunderstanding. Though, I would assume it's too late for calm and reasonable course of actions, unlike 'perspective a' where things still weren't blown out of proportions...

Personally, I would make him distance himself from her. Both out of spite for my friend's girlfriend and out of concern for my friend. I'm not much of a good person, but I would most likely never resort to sending those screenshots to his girlfriend...

Personally, I think that would depend on two things: Perspective, and basis/criteria for judgement...

If I was the girlfriend, I would judge that they were in the wrong (reasons stated in question #1...)

If I was the friend, my friend's girlfriend was clearly in the wrong...

Though, these two conclusions aren't quite aligned because clearly, the situations are very biased towards 'perspective b,' and because it's quite lacking in personal and primary details...

Less of separating, more of distancing and knowing our (friends) limits...

I doubt he'd find someone better than I am (let me be confident for a bit...)

Though, if he does find/have someone like that, then I have every right to my own feelings. But I cannot decide for either of them...

 

I was like "eh? o.o" cause I thought of the word "confrontation" as more neutral than it actually is. I thought it meant sth like "face someone regarding an issue previously not discussed as deeply", without the hostile intent XD lololol... I wonder what's a word used for the neutral version then

everything is determined and noone has free will, so no one can be blamed for anything. I'll see you all in heaven

 

IKR? Uhh...Discussion? Dialogue? Heart to heart? They sound kind of neutral/non-threatening...

 

I would say confronting an issue is neutral but confronting a person has negative connotations. The neutral version of confronting someone about something would be just asking them about it, I think?

 

this case
is classic case where this cat just see from sideline then watch drama unfold smiling~
wanna solve this case?
take 4th and 5th cat to smack those three~ point each those three where their fault lay and where their good point to solve this case~
only those 3 can solve it
anyway

none of them best case lvl 1 friend aka better than stranger....
lul

 

1. What would you do in Scenario A (Outsider Boyfriend/Girlfriend)?
I confronted my boyfriend alongside the attractive friend? Then it all depends on how he reacted to her outburst. If he seems to support that in anyway, he's going in the bin.

Anyway, putting that aside... I want to try and calm down and have a proper heartfelt talk with him. Feeling jealous doesn't make you an evil bitch - it's all about controlling it and working on it with your partner. Hopefully my boyfriend properly listens, talks me through their relationship to reassure me, and maybe stops doing some things that really make me uncomfortable if he doesn't mind.

But I also want to talk about how his friend herself makes me uncomfortable - how she's actively disrespecting me and our relationship, how she's malicious towards me, how I don't trust her, etc. Once he's aware, hopefully he'll talk to her about it or take steps to distance himself so that she can't hurt me.

Otherwise, it's time to take out the trash and get someone new.

2. What would you do in Scenario B (Attractive Friend Perspective)?
If I was actually concerned for my friend, I would take him somewhere and tell him gently about my concerns without accusing anyone. I'd offer my help. But, if he firmly doesn't want it, I can't force my help on him.

Sabotaging his relationship is just disgusting and I would never stoop to thinking about that.
Also, if the relationship is genuinely abusive and the partner doesn't break up with them over the cheating, you instead gave the abuser arsenal to guilt and gaslight your friend. Good going.

2. Is anybody right here? Is anyone wrong?
The information is subjective with no objective view, so I can't truly judge.

However, I'd say that B is wrong. B needs to learn to grow up and communicate like an adult.

3. Should you separate from your existing old friends if you start dating someone?
No, obviously not. Your lover should not become your whole life or the relationship will become toxic no matter what.

4. Would you be jealous if your boyfriend/girlfriend had a close friendship with someone who is the same gender as you? What if that person is especially attractive?
I do sometimes, but that's my cross to bear. Unless there are major red flags, I have to forcefully assert rationality into my head and just cool down. Making friends with the person is a good way to make the fear stop, too.

 

2. Is anybody right here? Is anyone wrong?
Well both sound wrong I think...
3. Should you separate from your existing old friends if you start dating someone?
No?
4. Would you be jealous if your boyfriend/girlfriend had a close friendship with someone who is the same gender as you? What if that person is especially attractive?
Master dog will never have girlfriend/boyfriend so neither!
5. Bonus Question: Which one do you think is @lychee's friend? xD[/QUOTE]
Both!

 

I wonder what is the limit?

To be fair, he did try to change a lot of things. But people don't change on a dime, so it wasn't 100% of everything.

She didn't actually send it. She only told me that she had it and she thought about it.

Yep, they are on the younger side Not that young, but still towards the end of high school and the beginning of university.

Yes, that was the impression I got too. I think the guy (the one they're fighting over) actually does have feelings for my attractive friend. There's three people at play in this situation.

That said, the attractive friend already has their own boyfriend -- so technically you could even make this into a love quadrangle. However, he's kind of irrelevant to this story because he doesn't seem to be bothered by the fact that my attractive friend is a social butterfly.

Basically the way I have it in my head is that: Male Friend secretly likes Attractive Girl. Attractive Girl enjoys Male Friend's attention and friendship. Outsider Girl started dating Male Friend. Male Friend likes Outsider Girl but also still has residual feelings (maybe in denial?) for Attractive Girl. Chaos ensues.

I like this line. Thanks!

Yup! The entire scenario in OP is cooked up from @lychee's interpretation of a 1 hour conversation talking to the attractive friend.

There aren't enough facts to the scenario really say much about it -- and I'm not the kind of person to point fingers without really knowing any details -- but there's enough points of ambiguity that anyone involved could easily be in the "wrong".

My attractive friend generally has low self-esteem to begin with, and she gravitates to people who make her feel better in general. It's a long-standing pattern for her.

That said, I would hesitate to say that it's "all her" though. Based on the impression I was given, the guy (that they're both fighting over) is also kind of needy and clingy. For example, I was shared a screenshot of the guy trying to get my attractive friend to call him, but my friend was trying to explain that she was at work.

There was a lot of very questionable things that I heard, coming from multiple different angles. For instance, the Outsider Girl tried to get the Guy to leave a game he was playing with his friends by saying that her eyes were bleeding, or something like that. A lot of scary drama is playing out and I'm very happy I'm not directly involved.

Mhm, I understand that, but in this particular case I feel like I would feel especially jealous if a friend managed to outdo me with my SO through some avenue or another. Maybe I'm selfish, but I want to be the "best one" when it comes to my boyfriend/fiance.

I think the guy is satisfied on all sides and wants to keep things as they are with both girls. He's happy with his new girlfriend and he's also happy to spend time with his older friend. The sense of boundaries are probably different between each of the three parties, which the Outsider Girl having the most conservative sense of what boundaries are okay.

The confrontations appear to have occurred separately.

This is sort of a response to @celleit as well, but I think there's a blur of selfish feelings and concern (and gut response "I hate you" enmity). I think my attractive friend's perspective is that the Outsider Girl encroached on something and is trying to take him away, using underhanded methods including spreading bad rumors about their entire friend group so he stops hanging out with them as much. There are kind of direct and indirect attacks flying around, so it's not like she's a neutral uninvolved 3rd party advising the friend on the his relationship.

Around a third of the drama occurred on discord. My attractive friend created a server and was the founder for it. At some point, she gave ownership of the server to the guy in question. Later on the Outsider Girl got involved and started trying to convince people to kick my attractive friend from her own server -- which left a very sour taste in her mouth. Later on, the guy ended up giving ownership of the server back to my attractive friend and the two of them (Guy + Outsider Girl) left the server. But the drama still continues........

 

To be honest, the whole Telenovela gives me the impression that the guy will be single and alone quite soon... whether he's aware of it or not... and it's most likely the best outcome for everyone.

Those people should not be in contact with each other, imho.

Spoiler: What it's like

 

1) Set down with the other 2 involved and have a very serious conversation. Make it clear that although I don't mind them hanging out together that the casual flirting is making me uncomfortable.
2) Talk with the opposite gender friend. If they are in a toxic relationship that is causing them to be isolated the LAST thing that you would want to do is send that suggestive stuff to their lover. That is just asking for bad things to happen. I would tell the opposite gender friend that I felt that they had changed and that they are not the same person. I would ask if everything was alright and ensure them that if they ever needed help I would be there for them.
2b) They are both wrong in different ways. The Outsider is wrong in that he is isolating their lover from friends making the whole relationship toxic, but the Attractive friend is wrong in continuing their casual flirting when they know their opposite gender friend is seeing another person in their circle. Whether either side could be right is dependant on what the Attractive friend does.
3) No, that isolates people and is a sign of a toxic relationship. You should adjust how you interact with them in some cases though.
4) Probably. I don't have a whole lot of self esteem, and a few other issues that make relationships hard to begin with, and it may cause me to give up on them.
5) Attractive friend.

 

... I suppose cancelling your wedding to go see a movie with you close friend is definitely too much...inviting bff to come along to the honeymoon might also be too much. just work back wards from there. that is we are trying to create some kind of "what ta do spectrum."

@lychee
get the friends to become more mature mentally posthaste. as @Ddraig said too much dumbness

I wanted call this out several times, if this was a solvable problem we must remove the root of the issue, the only common factor in everyone's misery is this guy... remove it or fix the broken gear and the social machine should fix it self...

ofcourse you can get jelly friend and attracto friend to be better machine parts, but ultimately will result in the removal of guy friend from the system anyway. So best thing to do, remove the infection aka guy friend, fix the broken pieces after.

ha... humans... SMH.

that:

+1

 

Actually I'm curious: what exactly is the definition of a "toxic relationship"?

This, though, is very, very bad of that Outsider Girl.

@lychee Generally at this point I think, since the Attractive Friend is the only person you can potentially influence here, you should just tell her to consider if the Guy is worth keeping as a close friend (maybe she could discuss this with her friend group, see how much he's changed and decide from there), distancing would be a good choice if she decides she doesn't want to argue over all of this and that his friendship is something she can afford lose. Because from what I understand in your descriptions, the Guy ain't no good guy most people should hang around.
Besides, he might actually be enjoying all this drama for all we know. It could really boost a guy's self-esteem.

Edit: And yes, they need to grow up.

 

Well I agree people dont change in the drop of a hat, but as with everything, effort matters. If he is making the effort to respect the boundary between him n B, or to explain how/why he thinks it was okay, then I’m sure A will feel better.
Then again, they rly need to discuss this between themselves as well (A and the guy)

I suppose there’s that, but it’s still pretty sucky of her to think about it. Also, in this case, she knew the guy kinda likes her? But she’s still acting like flirty with him??? And she has her own boyfriend already???? I just cant...

Well A seems bit.... of a bish too w.r.t trying to pull her bf away from the group of friends... but kinda understandable cos she felt insecure as she prolly perceived that her bf is somewhat onto B...

Kinda leaning on A a bit more cos I felt since you are B’s friend a lot of what you heard are from B’s side (pov) but not A - and thus is biased against A

But agree with whats been said, everyone needs to grow up.
Simplest solution is for A to break it off w bf so he could work on his feelings (to A or B, whatever).. but feelings and life is never that simple