Discussion Money

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by OldManGu, Jan 18, 2020.

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  1. Nimroth

    Nimroth Someone

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    Paying for a construction and paying that same amount in a single salary is nothing alike even if it would be for similar reasons.
    For a construction you can see a reason for why it would be necessary to pay due to the complexity of organizing, planning, logistics and paying for both materials and all of the required manpower and any sane government would be trying to reduce that cost as much as it can as well unless it is riddled with corruption, and on top of that a large portion that money might be flowing back into the economy by creating jobs.
    But what reasons do they have for paying that same amount to a single person?, is there any reason he need that much money other than that he decided to value his service that way?, I've not read the novel in question so I don't know if he has any other reasons than being greedy.
    If he actually require a lot of money to maintain his service that would be a good reason.

    And again the way OP describes it is simply as them being unhappy about it, not rejecting it so it isn't as if they don't see the need.
     
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  2. flannan

    flannan Well-Known Member

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    Please do understand that most people don't have a feel for all scales and numbers outside their immediate experience. Sci-fi authors don't understand how mind-bogglingly big space is. Fantasy authors don't understand how expensive a gold coin is. And unless it's actually important to the author, he isn't going to research stuff. Days of professional and well-researched books are long gone.

    And even in this discussion, people keep comparing money to GDP (the whole country's money), not budget (government's money). Japan's budget seems to be about 1.8 trillion dollars, which is a lot less than its GDP of 5 trillion dollars. (and Japan owes about 2 years' budget to somebody) Or even to military budget of a totally different country (and USA is known for its inflated military budgets and endless wars).

    Also, reactions to money are culture-specific. I think that Russian actually expected the other side to bargain this sum down to 1 million dollars per day. We Russians aren't as fond of bargaining as in the Near East, but when it comes to knowing the price of blocking off an S-rank danger, that's the only way to know. You just name anything that sounds like "a lot of money", and then make offers and counter-offers until you've come to an understanding what the other side is actually willing to pay.
     
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  3. batotit

    batotit Well-Known Member

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    It is not that simple.
    Jeezes, paying an individual, no matter how important, has a domino effect not only to the economy but to the political, foreign and domestic affairs and the very social norms of your country.
    If Japan is dealing with a country or even an organization, then that is one thing, but for an individual to ask for an amount previously unheard of is totally a different matter. It doesn't matter if japan can pay for it or not, what they need to think about is what paying that amount will mean in the future.
    This has similarities with the same concept why nations officially dont negotiate with terrorist. It is not because they cannot pay for it, but because it will establish a precedent that no one wants to think about if people thinks that it is okay to asked billions of dollars from the government.
    Yes, the guy who is asking that sum is very important and might save your country, but that individual is saving you only from one danger and not the consequences of his action and any competent government must think about.

    fantasy example:
    A representative of a 100 million female Chinese declared that they are bored and unhappy. If nothing is done to fix their problem, they will start to riot and destroy every public property around them, making sure the government lost billions every day.
    The following day, the manager of the kpop boy band group BTS called the Chinese chairman and offered to do a concert for the females if the government paid them 25 million dollars every day.
    If you are the chairman, it doesn't matter that your country has the second-highest GDP in the world or that you can pay the amount, you should not agree to it because if you do, you create more problems than you fix.
    *Your nanny: Hwat?! you can pay a foreigner 25 million but you cannot give me a raise? Is your children not that important to you?
    *teachers: Huwat?! You think entertainers are more important than the education of our children? I demand that you double our wages!
    * soldiers: Hwat! You cannot increase our salaries but you can give 25 mil to koreans?!
    *Old people: Hwat?! You can give millions to someone but you cannot increase our pensions!
    *prisoners: Hwat? you cannot give us better facilities but you can throw away millions?!
    And this is just scanning the surface.
    For most governments in crisis, the most important thing is to show that they are still in control. You cannot do that if you pay an individual to do something very important and your people still think that you are still in control.
    the stock exchange can crash. the value of your currency will go down the drain, important people will start moving away, assets outside your country will be frozen, are some example than can happen if your government lose control.
     
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  4. Havisu

    Havisu Night Lurker

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    I think there's already some people here understand or trying to explain something i lacked in my explanation so i won't butt in anymore. It's a hassle lol

    Now lets talk about how bias this Solo Leveling author toward Japan. Based on OP description, it seems like Japan is stupid enough to let their country be in this desperate situation without trying to make few backup plans on what will they do if their top 10 strongest man died to that dungeon. Not only they're overconfident in their strength, but they're also reckless and didn't seems to judge/probe the dungeon level threat better. Would you think one of the top richest country would be so stupid as not to be able to predict the possibility of this predicament? As we all know, Japan, Korean and China have been at Love-hate relationship since while ago. So is it possible that this korean author actually being indirectly racist toward japan itself?
     
  5. flannan

    flannan Well-Known Member

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    On the other hand, you can compare it to other people at the same level of qualifications.
    For example, here: https://www.quora.com/How-much-do-celebrity-music-artists-make-per-show
    A few hours of work make a musical band something like 100k - 1 million USD. Going with assumption that that Russian guy really has to keep the barrier up round the clock, and a show in those answers lasts for 3 hours, he should get paid *24/3 = 8 times more. Thus we get, 800k USD to 8 million USD. Rounding up to 10 million USD per day isn't out of the question to have "the best" work for you.
    Is an S-rank hunter worth less than a rock star? I don't think so.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
  6. Raneday

    Raneday Not Rane

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    lol

    was that a prelude for someone to use that as a title for their novel?
     
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  7. Shibb

    Shibb Well-Known Member

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    A lot of the counters made had been Japan being unable to justify paying 3.65b as the salary for a single person they cannot control. But what are the requirements for the barrier to go up? Since the guy named his price by day, that meant it was something he had to do every day at certain hour(s). That means Japan might be paying the guy to put a pause on his life and reallocate to Japan. Since this is a fantasy universe and big skills always require expensive materials to cast, the 3.65b would be going to covering the guy's material costs as well. Living in Tokyo, this guy would need a minimum of 1.8k USD a year for rent, food, bills etc. However, that 1.8k means he's staying in a 15-sqm apartment (as big as 3.5 king-sized beds apparently), rarely ever eating out or having alcohol, and merely paying taxes for a 2.3k USD a month salary. He'll surely drink. He'll surely eat out a lot. It's also clear he needs to not be cramped up in an apartment with the normal folk since he has military clearance (I assume), because the government and military will be keeping tabs on him at all times. What about his family? Is he getting any benefits? What about where he'll be "working"? What about taxes? The more you earn, the more you'd be paying (logically). All that just means he could be spending up to 10k USD a month just to live in Tokyo. If he's buying his own property, he'd be paying around 26k USD per 3.3 sqm (tsubo). The average housing unit size was apparently 28 tsubo. (It a wikipedia that sourced a taken down article.) That means the average housing unit would cost 728k USD. There are so many factors involved that it's not ridiculous he's asking for 10 million a day. Japan could go back on the contract at any time too. By stepping up, he's also risking being kicked out by the Russians because which country likes their own citizens dealing privately with other countries? Even if the Russians don't care, surely he has to pay Russian tax or something to the government. 10 million USD would be the optimal price. The Japanese could stay calm and nego.

    My main focus was why the Japanese character even bothered being pissy and throwing a fit if the price named was considered affordable, cheap even. I need some Solo Levelling readers' opinions. Is this author good at world-building? Because I just realised all this could just be drama for drama's sake. The author could've put in 1$ as the price and the Japanese would still throw a hissy fit because they have to pay a Russian. Or to just show the Russian being "greedy" (even though the MC seems rather greedy as well. 50% of all loot? That's insane considering he could ask for all the rare drops and the guild would just be left with the generic trash). Does this writer even know how negotiations work? After reading through all the discussion, I'm starting to wonder if the author is even any good at writing proper stories now.
     
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  8. VeraH

    VeraH eternally lazy

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    What's this novel?
     
  9. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

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    It's even more silly when the choice isn't actually between paying this guy or not. It's actually about whether they'd want to pay the money to counter an imminent threat; effectively whether Japan prefers to pay 3.5B or to lose Tokyo (or the equivalent thereof)! This is such a ludicrously lopsided equation I can't see why anyone arguing seriously about this.
     
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  10. Nimroth

    Nimroth Someone

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    I want to point out that my argument wasn't that the price wasn't justified, it probably was.
    My sole argument was that it isn't that strange for one character being unhappy about it for whatever reason, that can happen in real life as well even for good deals.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
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  11. Havisu

    Havisu Night Lurker

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    You should've known that this novel is a korean novel, made by a korean author. That's why I'm also having doubt if this author is being indirectly racist to Japan or not. The author clearly are making as if Japan is freakish idiot. The Japanese gov in the novel, given how desperate they are and how only one person turn up to offer being hired, should expected that the said person would negotiate to increase his salary as much as that, or even more, and so they shouldn't have been so shaken with that much when being asked bluntly. Being shaken and even feeling guilty about it shows how they're not prepared for that at all, and they're still a powerful country??

    The idiot one surely is the author here, not the Japanese or Japan, or any country the author make out to be.

    it's because i don't remember that i can't mention it here like some few novels i have mentioned. sorry dude
    the main reason i didn't remember is because the novel is slow at being translated so i stopped reading when i catched the latest chap
     
  12. flannan

    flannan Well-Known Member

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    We aren't USSR anymore. Unless you have security clearance for state secrets, you can go and get hired at any company, public or private.
    With 10 million per day salary, anybody who objects can just be bribed off.
    Sure, it's more reasonable for Russia to send its state-sponsored dungeon team, just for prestige and any loot they take out, but I guess that setting is very anarcho-capitalist, and dungeons are explored on a super-individualistic basis of fantasy gaming.

    As for your cost-of-living calculations, I think it's more important to calculate opportunity costs. How much does an S-rank hunter normally makes, when working full-time? Does not going to dungeons hamper his personal growth and puts him behind the curve?

    I think "50% of the loot" is different from "first pick of the loot".
     
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  13. asriu

    asriu fu~ fu~ fu~

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  14. VeraH

    VeraH eternally lazy

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    :blob_teary:
     
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