Discussion Checklist for Villaness Otome iskeai

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by theilikepie, Feb 13, 2020.

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  1. theilikepie

    theilikepie Well-Known Member

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    D0 you want to join the bandwagon and write an Otome VIllanes isekai? Well here's a template to get started. Ive compiled theses from reading hundreds of those stories

    • The setting must be Medival Europe- This is the best time for humans, Truly a comfortable era (unless you weren't a Nobel, but who cares about poor people, shouldn't have been born poor lol) anything other than that and you're iskeai will suck. We need more of these settings. No other setting will do and might alienate the readers
    • The MC must be a Japanese highschool girl- The Mc has to be relatable to the target audience
    • There must be no mention of the moral implications of hijacking another person's body and life- those kinds of subjects are too complex for readers, so just handwave it away by saying she was born as her. No moral quandary
    • The MC must be a Nobel- Now this is the most important. She has to be of the Nobel class. Not a disgusting peasant or *shudder* commoner. You have to make sure the MC gets everything handed to her, readers don't like to read about working hard towards a goal
    • The MC has to treat the World as a game world- She has to be of the belief that every other person in that world is a game character and must treat them as such. Oh the storyline might change because of her, no that can't happen, Its a game world and everyone is an NPC so they have to follow a set course. The other characters don't have feelings
    • Any other personality the Villainess might have and must be erased and changed to a doormat MC- We can't have an interesting protagonist. Audiences cant relate to that. SO the MC must be willing t be led around by the nose and have no real choice of her won. You can show her being her own person the first few chapters of the novel but later she must revert to a wet cardboard
    • The Novel must be pro- imperialism and suck the dick of royalty/nobility- Everyone knows how fair and just Royals used to be. The novel must keep mentioning how great they are and make strawman characters that can be easily defeated to attack them
    • The heroine must be a two-faced bitch whos only personality is that- Another thing that's important. Also, remember that she must always be below the MC in rank to show how much better and kinder the MC is. Make sure to mention how much of a hoe the heroine is for attempting to make a reverse harem, but remember to ignore the MC leading six guys on

    That's it for now. IF you know any other important things, feel free to add on
     
  2. holybell0

    holybell0 Member

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    This is beautiful
     
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  3. Miri-Bell

    Miri-Bell Semi-crazy Magic Cat

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  4. Snowbun

    Snowbun

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    Make a checklist for typos first! >A<;
     
  5. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    Considering how the 3 most popular novels of the genre (Otoburi, Bakarina and Kenkyo) don't follow this template at all... I think you're really way way waaaaaaaaaaaaay off mark. Eliza, Gomen ne Onii-sama, I Favor the Villainess, Tensei Oujo also are quite different and I'm sure I could think of more if I tried.

    Like, geez, I get trying to make a joke towards bad novels, but almost none of those items apply to pretty much any of the Otome Game Reincarnation novels I have read. I'm sure there must be some bad novels out there that follow your list, but I seriously doubt they're the norm.
     
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  6. The Everdistant Utopia

    The Everdistant Utopia Honorary Maou | Part Time Writer | Crau's

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    My disagreements with the cherypicking of bad tropes aside...

    You know, to chew a bit on the royalty point, I don't think it's limited to the genre of Otome VIllanes isekais, but rather fantasy in general. One could easily make a point that because Japan is currently under a monarchy (albeit constitutional one), that's just a natural conclusion for them to arrive at, because culture and what else. Or perhaps it's because the roots for their fantasy stories, specially isekai ones, are in popular games like Dragon Quest and so on, and those games are based on medieval europe, have monarchies only etc. Or perhaps it's because their perception of fantasy is a bit warped by the most popular parts of the genre, namely the medieval high fantasies (which, to be fair, also affect western fantasies though to a lesser extent). On a side note, I don't think they directly make a point to say that monarchies are the go-to government system, but rather make a point to heavily advertise the idea of the enlightened despot.

    But that's just my two cents in the matter...
     
  7. theilikepie

    theilikepie Well-Known Member

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    Yes. The gases

    I don't pretend to be good at spelling
    The big three were the OG ones. But the countless others that dnnt have manga adaptions are basically copies of eahcother. There might be some slight differences but there almost the same
     
  8. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    I mentioned 4 others that are way off mark as well. Like... I can't think of a single one that follows the template you described tbh.
     
  9. theilikepie

    theilikepie Well-Known Member

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  10. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    I read this one out of all you mentioned, let's see...

    She's old enough to have children in Japan, so definitely not a HS girl.

    She works hard to get her life better and nothing is handled to her. Rather, she goes from fat side character A that had things handed to her to working noble that created a shoe (and other things) company on her own.

    I don't remember how she looked at the world, but I'm pretty sure she did not treat it as a game.

    She definitely has a personality as a house-wife that reincarnated and looks at the other characters as if they were at the age of her children, it's quite the unique character.

    I don't think the novel ever praised royalty or anything, it simply didn't touch the subject.

    As for the Heroine... Uhn... My memory of her is a bit fuzzy, but she wasn't two-faced or anything as far as I remember... At the same time, she was kinda spoiled IIRC and was also hinted to be a reincarnated girl or something...


    So... Pretty far from your points I think? I haven't read any of the other ones, so I can't comment on them, but Quit Entourage definitely doesn't fit into your template.
     
  11. The Everdistant Utopia

    The Everdistant Utopia Honorary Maou | Part Time Writer | Crau's

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    Yeah, I'll have to call bullshit on this one.

    While is implied that she probably is a HS student indeed, it never really comes to play at any moment, it has no bearing in the story. As for being noble, her status as one is hotly contested at the get go, as her parents are dead and the only reason she's still a noble (albeit a very mistreated one), is because of her grandfather.

    For one, the entire novel is about her working hard to both avoid getting the literal boot from her cousin and to get slimmer. Plus the fact that she needs to deal with controlling her stress eating problems.

    And for starters, she doesn't treat her surroundings as a game, partly because it *wasn't a game to begin with, but rather a manga*, and she doesn't seem to treat people like NPCs without emotions. She even makes the effort to try and understand what exactly they think about her, though mostly fails.

    And, no. The novel doesn't advertise royalty as a perfect system. In fact, the MC even comments about how the tax money ended up being spent on frivolities as she's selling beauty products to high nobility/royalty.

    I don't quite remember about the heroine herself, but as far as I had read she had little involvement in the story (granted I halted in the early 100's of the chapters, so there's that). Maybe she was indeed two faced, or maybe not.
     
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  12. michael.kx5

    michael.kx5 [Sloth Incarnate][Lewd Overlord][The mediator]

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    The heroine appeared later on but she wasn't two-faced, just a naive idiot who is incompetent when it comes to social atiquite and noble mannerism.
    Also, the Heroine was the Royalty, sister of the main villainess from the manga.
    In the first place, Britney is not even the main Villainess, she is just a stooge the main villainess (the first princess) used and then threw away in the OG timeline.
    So NONE of the tropes apply.
     
  13. michael.kx5

    michael.kx5 [Sloth Incarnate][Lewd Overlord][The mediator]

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    I have read most of that list and NONE of them fit the bill.
    The first case doesn't even have any confrontation.
    AND she goes off to live as a COMMONER.
    And she is very strong-willed.

    living freely is just fluffy short chapters ( I havn't progressed much into it), the protag is a child, and she was 25 years old in her old life - not a JK.

    Avoid the death route doesn't even have a heroine yet since the protag is a little child.

    the next two on the list were covered already.

    I haven't read the male lead's fiance yet.

    The next entry is an erotic novel where there isn't even a heroine, and the protag gets married to her step-brother.

    In , "according to the scenerio..." the novels start with the confrontation where the protag accepts defeat ON PURPOSE because she thinks the fate-power of the story will force the scenerio to go the same no matter what so she gave up from the start.
    She then becomes a commoner.

    "Yume Watari" is an another erotic novel with the protag going along with the reverse-harem of the heroine at first because she wants to become a commoner so she acts like a bad guy (not a stepdoor personality at all).
    It all comes apart when her powers as a dream priestess(?) come to life and she shows the truth to all the brainwashed harem members on accident, one by one.
    The novel has multiple endings, one with each harem member.


    ANOTHER thing I noticed is that you don't understand how reincarnation works AT ALL.
    They don't hijack the Villainess body, that would be transmigration.
    They awaken the memories of their former lives and their former personality comes back online.
    The memories and the personalities of the two individuals fuse togather, with the older one (former life) usually being more dominant.
    "Okitara 20 nen" is not even a reincarnation story! just a "villainess" story. and she isn't even a real villainess.
    just an OP female shonen protag.
     
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  14. theilikepie

    theilikepie Well-Known Member

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    There not gonna follow the points exactly but they follow a variation of them. Aka high school/Japanese OL lady transmigrated, European setting shes always a Nobel, and more often then not the heroine is a bitch or hilariously incompetent to make the MC look better. The novels in the list dont follow all the points but they follow more the half of them.

    And I know about the reincarnation thing. But as I said they hanwave it away by saying it is the same spul from birth with recently awakened memories and the MC personality changes so much that she may as well have been hijacked by someone passaive. For most of these if the novel did tell you youd assume the Villaness MC was the heroine and the heroine the villaness

    The tropes are so overused that they even have started appearing in things other then otome isekai which is why some other novels are in the list
     
  15. Bachingchung

    Bachingchung Well-Known Member

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    I don't really mind the tropes, it's fun to read. What really grind my gears are the untranslated titles and the release dates that could vary from once a week to once a year. Although it's irritating to see Japanese MCs to be easily contented and have no goals to improve or just settle to be one of the mediocre sheeps to avoid future troubles; I can't really blame these authors, since they usually write about what they don't have. That's why animes have big eyes and hentais have big Ds and Ts. Slice of Life is also full of relaxing plot and laidback MCs because Japanese people are usually under a huge amount of stress. So their fantasies ain't about being the strongest and not-stop underhanded schemes, but having a relaxing life.
     
  16. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    Now you're just making yourself look silly when we make in-depth replies showing how the novels we have read don't follow almost any of the tropes you listed.
     
  17. theilikepie

    theilikepie Well-Known Member

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    Uh they do? Almost all these novels on here have more then half those tropee. Sure some might have the evil heroine or japanese teen MC but most of them do. Bu default they have the medical Europe, MC as a nobility,pro imperalsisim and reverse harem. The wet cardboard personality one is also in there 74 percet of the time. The other tropes vary but more often then not they're present

    You're getting really defensive.

    I dont blame the authors for following theses tropes. Its easy money wiht the least amount of creativity required
     
  18. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    Reverse Harem is rare, pro-nobility is rare, cardboard personality is rare, evil heroine is rare.

    The only common things are Teenager MC (which is super common for Isekai in general), Medieval Europe (which is super common for Fantasy in general) and the Nobility parts. All other things are very rare.

    You're trying to generalize tropes that aren't common and when people prove you wrong, you give a bunch of example of novels in the hopes we haven't read them... And when we did read them and call you out on your Bullshit, you ignore the flaws pointed out by the others.

    I'm not getting defensive, I'm saying you're speaking nonsense and trying to generalize a niche genre as if it was a quick cashgrab. Which it is not.
     
  19. theilikepie

    theilikepie Well-Known Member

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    I think of reverse harem when there is more than two people interested in the MC. Which is present for most of these novels

    And yea. Most Otome Isekai MCs have no personality or the same old shoujo protag personality. Its the same for regular isekai too. Good Iskeai MCs are hard to come by

    Evil/stupid heroine is more common than not. So is romanticizing nobility/royalty. I have never seen an otome isekai which really criticizes royals/nobility. The only one i remember is i favor the villainess and tearmoon princess (which to be honest are unique).

    And yeah it might have been unique in the beginning but it IS a quick cash grab these days, as with everything that becomes popular Maybe not in the anime format but there are two new VIlaness novels coming out every other day.

    You're either in denial or have only read two or three villainess isekai. Its like me watching quintuplets and nisekoi and claiming that the harem genre is unique and not victim to tropes.

    Oversaturation happens to every genre that becomes popular. It happened to battle harems, regular iskeai and now otome isekai. ANd more often then not they are gonna be shit because they don't try something new but will be popular because there safe
     
  20. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    Well, that's the problem, you're spouting bullshit out of your mouth, yet didn't provide a single example of a novel in which anything that you said held true. *shrugs*

    Because the examples you did provide were all novels that didn't fill in even 1/3rd of your pointless checklist.

    And you haven't seen an Otome Isekai that criticizes nobility, than you never read neither of Gomen Ne Onii-sama, I Favor The Villainess, Otoburi and Eliza.

    As for the no personality thing, if your definition of "no personality" means "Actually well-developed, interesting and relatable character", then I'll agree with you that the protagonists of Otome Isekai have no personality.

    I'm not in denial, you're the one that says nonsense and has no examples to back up your claims.
     
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