Lots of novels getting "poached" recently?

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by riririn, Feb 14, 2020.

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  1. Fuyuneko

    Fuyuneko winter cat

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    Just curious. Why is 30 chapters the cut off line for deciding that a poacher has to start at chapter 1 vs the next chapter of the existing translation? And, what is considered a malicious attack?
     
    Fuyuneko, Feb 15, 2020
    #21
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  2. nonononononono

    nonononononono NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO

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    Second this, I am confused as well.
     
    nonononononono, Feb 15, 2020
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  3. Westeller

    Westeller Smokin' Sexy Style!! Staff Member

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    There's no special reason. When the policy was being drafted, other numbers and even measurements were thrown around. E.g. word count vs chapter, an important distinction for light novels with looooooong chapters. But "30 chapters" was eventually settled on, as something reasonable for most of the novels being translated. It's not a perfect fit, but the policy was meant to be fairly loose, anyway.

    At the time, we mostly wanted an excuse to say "no" when something like the Martial World poaching happened again - in which a disgruntled reader threw up badly edited MTL just ahead of the translator, alongside rants about said translator. Wasn't pretty. Competition is fine, but that was just an attack on the translator, y'know?

    There was also the Douluo Dalu episode, in which a group rushed out bad MTL of the final chapters and spammed the translator's comment sections with advertisements and death threats demanding he stop his translation. Just. Ew. That was a big motivator for me, personally, in pushing to have some kind of poaching policy established.
     
    Westeller, Feb 15, 2020
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  4. Fuyuneko

    Fuyuneko winter cat

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    Oh. My question is why is there's such a high requirement to be an active translator. Other than translators that translate as a fulltime job, it would take hobby translators months to get to 30 chapters. And until they get to 30 chapters limit, at any moment, someone can poach their novel by translate the next chapter without having to put in time to get to that chapter.

    Since the goal is to be as inclusive as possible, who would it discourage by having a low chapter requirement to be considered an active translator when there's an exception in place that anyone is free to translate a novel and be listed if they start at chapter 1.
     
    Fuyuneko, Feb 15, 2020
    #24
  5. Westeller

    Westeller Smokin' Sexy Style!! Staff Member

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    30 chapters is the line at which someone can't pick the novel up one chapter ahead, sure, but they can still start over from chapter 1. There's a very clear allowance for that. If we set the bar at, say, chapter 10, then the difference between them pushing out chapter 11 and starting over from 1 is sort of... small, don't you think? If they dared to compete with the translator over the novel, they must believe they can translate the novel better, or at least faster, and it probably won't take them long to translate the 9 chapters they're behind by... Chapter 30 is a fairly good mark at which we say no to people just trying to make a quick buck off of the translator's foundation, and require they prove their intent to seriously compete by starting over.
     
    Westeller, Feb 15, 2020
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  6. Fuyuneko

    Fuyuneko winter cat

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    But, why have a limitation that saves the poacher from having to put in more effort?

    The current rule means before chapter 30, anyone can make a quick buck just by translating one part. Having it set as 10 chapters means they would spend 10x or more time.
     
    Fuyuneko, Feb 15, 2020
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  7. Westeller

    Westeller Smokin' Sexy Style!! Staff Member

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    The poachers this policy is meant to .. let's say deter, rather than stop... usually use rather poorly edited MTL. I'd imagine they could put out ten chapters in a day, easily, while going to work/school and cleaning up after five kids at home. A policy that says they'll have to start over 10 chapters behind just isn't as daunting a deterrent as 30~50 chapters. (50 being the maximum they're required to translate if they don't choose to start over from 1). If someone intends to compete more legitimately, we also don't want to give them a hundred hoops to jump through.
     
    Westeller, Feb 15, 2020
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  8. Fuyuneko

    Fuyuneko winter cat

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    Oh, sorry I misunderstood your previous point. I thought you meant if 10 chapters have been translated already, the poacher would have to start at chapter 1, so it would be more work for them.

    I agree, if someone is doing poorly edited MTL, they can churn out a ton of chapters and it won't discourage them. But having a requirement of 30 chapters instead of a lower requirement to be the active translator only saves the poacher time.

    I can see why this rule* is created back it when the issue is encouraging people to pick up dropped novels (or possibly other reasons). But, hasn't NU changed since then? There's a lot more poachers doing low-effort edited MTL** to make a quick buck vs people compete legitimately. Out of the last 200 most recent novels that had an existing translator and got picked up or poached, how many was by people that genuinely like the novel vs poachers that want to capitalize on the original translator's effort?

    Doesn't this rule (requiring 30 chapters to be translated) penalize the first person that finds the novel and builds up a readership for it? Anyone that translates after them will benefit from their work. (Getting off topic, if someone genuinely likes the novel and is translated because of that, I would feel differently of course.) But, the higher the chapter requirement, the more burden it places on the original translator and makes it easier to poach. I agree with you that if someone really wants to poach, changing this rule won't do anything. But, why have a rule that favors poachers?

    * Is the reason for not requiring all new translator to have to start at chapter 1 to encourage people picking up dropped novels? Or, is there some other reason?

    **So grateful by the way for being able to exclude those groups from the main page. Really useful feature.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2020
    Fuyuneko, Feb 15, 2020
    #28
  9. Westeller

    Westeller Smokin' Sexy Style!! Staff Member

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    We're not trying to create a system where one translator "claims" a novel and no one else can translate it, or even really to encourage people to translate novels that don't already have a translator, though that may be a consequence.

    That policy was created as a reaction to malicious poaching and attacks against translators, who have reliably and consistently translated a novel for a considerable length of time. It's not meant to stifle competition, or tell people what they can and can't translate. If a novel already has a translator and someone else jumps in to try their hand at it? I sympathize with the translator who's project is being poached, but Novel Updates will not take a side.

    Again, Novel Updates is ultimately a directory to *all* translation projects, and we don't want to exclude *any*, for *any* reason. Every exclusion is a direct contradiction to the site's fundamental purpose. In some respects, the policy, loose as it is, is already antithetical to Novel Updates. It's not something we want to tighten or enforce more strictly. Instead, it's the minimum courtesy afforded to the translators that make this entire community possible.

    That said, it doesn't favor poachers. The fact that it exists at all is unfavorable to poachers. While it could certainly be stricter and even more unfavorable to them, telling people they can't translate a given novel is not something we can or should do.
     
    Westeller, Feb 15, 2020
    #29
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  10. asriu

    asriu fu~ fu~ fu~

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    Those spoke nuffie greedy meatbun

    regarding mtl
    poor edit mtl actually easy to report as long as NU member can prove it to any NU staff or NUF moderator available~ or create thread to pin point exact which novel and translator or group who do that~ as long as evidence is good enuf then kick it kinda reasonable~
    it all about community interaction~ if member only smack around say it poor edit mtl without enuf proof then it similar with childern throw tantrum~ NU staff and NUF moderator have their own limitation~
     
    asriu, Feb 15, 2020
    #30
  11. Fuyuneko

    Fuyuneko winter cat

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    NU doesn't judge quality of editing (it would be too difficult to objectively judge), Poorly edited MTL is accepted
     
    Fuyuneko, Feb 15, 2020
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  12. asriu

    asriu fu~ fu~ fu~

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    there was thread talking about novel with bad edit mtl on conclusion some chapters do kicked from NU cuz meatbun do judge it along with tony
     
    asriu, Feb 15, 2020
    #32
  13. Fuyuneko

    Fuyuneko winter cat

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    Wasn't it because they copied and pasted the MTL directly without any editing at all? At first, they thought it was badly edited MTL, but then someone showed that it was unedited MTL, so Tony removed it from NU.
     
    Fuyuneko, Feb 15, 2020
    #33
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  14. asriu

    asriu fu~ fu~ fu~

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    maybe
     
    asriu, Feb 15, 2020
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  15. Fuyuneko

    Fuyuneko winter cat

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    @Westeller Thank you for taking the time to explain! I misunderstood why those rules exist. I thought the purpose of the rules is try to balance fairness for everyone, but as you explained, the rules are an exception to NU's spirit of neutrality.
     
    Fuyuneko, Feb 15, 2020
    #35
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  16. baka8roukanako

    baka8roukanako Well-Known Member

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    AD REVENUE
    E-PEEN
     
    baka8roukanako, Feb 16, 2020
    #36
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