Question Name or title? [chinese]

Discussion in 'Translator's Corner' started by NikkiSpores, Mar 6, 2020.

  1. NikkiSpores

    NikkiSpores Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure if the highlighted red words is the king's name or his title...

    我是青丘国肃清王长子烛离
     
  2. Kailyria20

    Kailyria20 Perpetually distracted

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    我 - I
    是 - am
    青丘国 - Qing Qui Country
    肃清王 - King Su Qing
    长子 - Eldest Son
    烛离 - Zhu Chi

    That's what I got from plugging it into the dictionary, I presume that's his father's name??
    肃 - Surname Su or respectful/solemn/eliminate/clean up
    清 - Surname Qing or clear/distinct/pure/honest and just/purge

    Hope that helps, i'm not a native sorry xD
     
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  3. xiazixin

    xiazixin Well-Known Member

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    just a former way of writing, I am qingqiu's emperor's elder son, duli
     
  4. NikkiSpores

    NikkiSpores Well-Known Member

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    Ya I'm still learning chinese. I think that is his name too.
     
  5. NikkiSpores

    NikkiSpores Well-Known Member

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    But is Su Qing the name of the emperor? Or part of the emperor's title?
     
  6. lamb19

    lamb19 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know chinese but i think its a title
    But google daren says : I'm the eldest son of Qingqiu, Qing Dynasty
    I would try putting it into context first. Is it mentioned later? If yes then its name, if not then its title
     
  7. lamb19

    lamb19 Well-Known Member

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    This makes sense.
    Somehow i can feel your vicissitudes with MTL...
     
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  8. xiazixin

    xiazixin Well-Known Member

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    @lamb19 it's a typo mistake it's
    肃亲王 if it takes history....
     
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  9. lamb19

    lamb19 Well-Known Member

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    So its like this... i'll add to my wordbank for future mtl
     
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  10. xiazixin

    xiazixin Well-Known Member

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    I'm not that sure lol, 肃亲王 is a qing dynasty king. but I don't think they call dalian 青丘 at that time lol.
    I know that dalian is the name given by British during British occupation/enslavement. not sure what the qing dynasty given the name of that place lol.

    if it means original 青丘国, thats go all the way to xia dynasty.... over 5000 years of history... books are literally written in bones.

    edit: but qing dynasty is really really long. maybe they called that location 青丘?
     
  11. SnowTime

    SnowTime Busy Busy Busy, I Dug Too Many Holes

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    Rather than actual history, it's an ancient place from legends
    The source of 青丘国 is from 隋书 which was an eighty-five volume biological chronicle compiled during the Tang Dynasty which was an attempt to repair the history of five dynasties(?)

    There isn't an actual 肃清王 or whatever to my knowledge so can't help there

    Welp that's all I got
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2020
  12. Shibb

    Shibb Well-Known Member

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    This is what I got too. You need to claim which king you're the son of after all. It's like claiming "I am the son of Cleopatra, Empress of Egypt" in the pompous heraldic tone.
     
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  13. Bakaturq

    Bakaturq Tell me, what do you see?

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    However, in most CN historical novels, 王 is not the leader of the country.

    Imagine a group of siblings:
    - one becomes the emperor 帝/皇上
    - the rest of the siblings are king 王
    - then in some cases, the emperor might crown an outsider a non- blood related king (not sure the correct term) for his contributions (usually war) or as a guardian of the country 外姓王
    - if the previous emperor, if he is still well and alive, will be termed the Elder Emperor or something 太上皇
     
  14. Shibb

    Shibb Well-Known Member

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    That highly depends though. If you're talking of a minor country, it's still king for the leader. The only reason 王 is used as a title is because the fictional country is representing China's dynasties.

    Tbh, you're probably right about 肃清王 not being the leader and just a "relative" (they can also be unrelated. It's a title like Earl or Duke). In that context, 王 shouldn't be king. It should be something similar to the princes of the Austro-Hungary Empire.
     
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  15. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

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    That's not even just minor countries. Basically, the title that precedes 王 only applies to empires. For any entity other than an empire, 王 translates to king, so he would be the ruler of that country. Most Chinese historical novels take place in Imperial China so the ruler in those cases is the emperor, but 王 is still used for the rulers of most other countries.

    In this case, the construction of "青丘国" suggests that this is not an empire so it probably does refer to the king and sovereign ruler.
     
  16. Shibb

    Shibb Well-Known Member

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    On the 王 thing, that's dependant on the dynasty. The Zhou and Shang used 王. It's only after/at Qin Shi Huang times that they changed it. I used "minor countries" because I wasn't totally sure where the lines are between countries. How big must a country be in dynasty times before it's declared an empire? They look the same...don't they? (You can so tell I didn't pay much attention to my history classes)
     
  17. Kailyria20

    Kailyria20 Perpetually distracted

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    lmfao....this sounds so funny for some reason pfft.
     
  18. Kailyria20

    Kailyria20 Perpetually distracted

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    Yes usually, 'king' is auto-corrected in my head as 'prince' when reading mtl for novels in that plot setting so that it's understood that they are not the actual ruler but a cousin/brother/honorable title type position.