Use of honorifics in translated works

Discussion in 'Translator's Corner' started by UnGrave, Apr 16, 2020.

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What do you think about using honorifics in translations?

  1. Keep every honorific, don't translate most "weeb" words and phrases

    16 vote(s)
    37.2%
  2. Only keep honorifics, translate everything else that you can (ie: onii-chan)

    12 vote(s)
    27.9%
  3. Everything should be translated unless absolutely required in Japanese

    15 vote(s)
    34.9%
  1. UnGrave

    UnGrave ななひ~^^

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    I've seen a lot of people complaining about the uses of honorifics in translations. Considering this, I make an attempt to limit the number of honorifics when I'm writing a translation. However, there are many times where I'm left with a choice of either leaving a "-sama" on a name or just removing it since it doesn't have any natural way to insert the meaning of it in the context. I figured I'd see what people think, although regardless I'll probably stick with my way of doing things.

    The poll above only has three options, but I do feel like it covers the range of opinions well. If not, vote the closest option to what you feel and comment.

    Edit: I went to vote on my poll and realized immediately that I don't agree with any of the responses. Sorry...

    Edit 2: I also realize that I've specifically mentioned Japanese, but the same goes for Chinese can Korean. My apologies...
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2020
  2. eray.gns

    eray.gns Well-Known Member

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    For Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei, keep them. For everything else, doesn't matter much. You get used to "translator's style" eventually (if you stick around till that point). But please don't "translate" like To Be A Virtuous Wife. I don't want to be forced to learn the original language to be able to read the translation. (You eventually get used to this too but damn it takes long and most of the time leaves you with a ginormous headache...)
     
  3. Zaroz

    Zaroz Existential Lurker Demonic Calamity

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    I feel like the answer for this topic is somewhat vague. In my humble opinion, the answer should be "whichever choice makes most sense in the context and provides the best reading experience." Another thing to note is that, you can also convert "weeb words" into pinyin/romaji/hanja and add in a translator's note to explain them to unfamiliar readers.
     
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  4. Anra7777

    Anra7777 All powerful magic grammar hamster queen pirate.

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    I feel that certain honorifics have become so familiar that it’s very annoying when they aren’t used. That being said, I’ve seen some Chinese translations that don’t translate any honorifics as well as not translating the different pronouns, and I have a lot of trouble understanding what’s going on.

    I think on the whole it depends? For example, I understand “onii-chan” and “ge” and “hyung,” but maybe put a note for those who don’t. As for “first brother,” “second brother,” “third brother,” “fourth brother,” etc., for the love of my mind, please translate it or at least leave the numbers in. (Have legit seen a translation that didn’t translate the Chinese brothers and sisters’ relationships beyond an initial note and I became confused very fast.)
     
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  5. RougeAsura

    RougeAsura Rayus

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    While translating it is good to maintain the original essence of the novel. So keeping honorifics is okay in my opinion. Mainly the name stucture should follow the original work.
     
  6. Bright_Lucky_Star

    Bright_Lucky_Star [Previously Known as OrdinaryUser] The Blessed One

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    I prefer not using honorifics like -san, -nim, -shi, -chan. In case of -dono just translate it to english equivalent like lord or master. In case actual style addres then translate it to english equivalent like His Excellency, You Honour and other style.
    But at the end of the day it's still translators choice, as reader I can only accept whatever their choice.
     
  7. Melodious Nocturne

    Melodious Nocturne [Dance, water, dance!] [My name is Demyx!]

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    |ω・)Call me... Demyx-sama! ( ^ω^ )
     
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  8. Chiiiiiiiii

    Chiiiiiiiii >Daoist Thirteen Bears< >Hero Astral Saber<

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    That really depends on what kind of novel it is, after all it's not easy to translate honorifics into polite speech nor is it easy to show how close people are in english....
     
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  9. Not Red Yet

    Not Red Yet Well-Known Member

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    Right, The honorifics shows the closeness in a relationship and also shows when it levels up.
    Example: Transitioning from San to Kun, and such.

    Reminds me of how Yen press removed what Pochi says at the end of her sentences.

    Hate when some translators keep the Japanese equivalent of words like Please/Thank You and many other annoying ones.
     
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  10. UnGrave

    UnGrave ななひ~^^

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    Arigathankyou gozaimuch!
     
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  11. Not Red Yet

    Not Red Yet Well-Known Member

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    :blobangery::blobangery::blobangery::blobdevil::blobdevil::blobdevil::blob_catflip::blob_catflip::blob_catflip:
     
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  12. UnGrave

    UnGrave ななひ~^^

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    Sumimasorry...
     
  13. Tennou

    Tennou Well-Known Member

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    I prefer to keep honorifics as long as it makes sense, since it also helped creating ambience for the characters when talking like when MC talking to a character with higher standing or when honorific is part of their character, I mean it's really weird hearing Miyuki(Mahouka) calling Tatsuya "Dearest brother" since that's what her "Onii-sama" implying everytime she said it. Although there are also novels that don't really matter much if you translate everything to "Lord" and such so it really depends on the translator in the end, if it make sense then everything is good.
     
  14. lailai

    lailai Well-Known Member

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    Dono doesn’t always mean Lord, but using your excellency is odd in English because your excellency is for titled people. Dono just means you are respected, either for your self/qualities/family background. Same with oniisama vs oniichan. One has more respect. Or using aniki versus oniisama.

    For Chinese, I am torn because I don’t want to keep reading caomin or the many versions of your excellency, nuances are lost or made up when an English equivalent is found. English is harder to show the level of social rankings because we don’t say “this house/family” the daughter of one family but madame of another family, the level of “lowlinees” for “this lowly one”, etc.
     
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  15. Drake888

    Drake888 That one guy. You know, the one over there.

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    I feel that honorifics are a delightful addition to a translation. There is no English equivalent to most of these and it is an important way to convey a lot of things. The OP used oniichan as an example. Think of what that honorific means and imagine trying to convey that in a situation where it isn't appropriate. Because that kind of thing comes up sometimes. You can use big bro in situations where it is meant to be used but in situations where the author uses it as a quirk, you need a footnote to convey what was lost in translation if you aren't using honorifics.
    As for leaving more than honorifics untranslated, that's a case by case sort of thing. I enjoyed reading "To be a Virtuous Wife" and felt like I learned something from having to understand certain words from context clues, but I can understand why that would be a pain as well.
    Honorifics help express subtle nuances but most other things are a lesson in language. If you are leaving more than honorifics untranslated you are asking your audience to do extra work to enjoy your translation and that isn't always a good thing. I might enjoy learning through context clues in a Chinese period peace but I usually don't have that kind of patience with a Japanese high school light novel.
     
  16. runsing

    runsing status : bleeding, health -10/s Novel Updates Staff

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    :blob_plusone: for Mahouka.
    reading/hearing Miyuki saying Dear Brother, or Tatsuya, or whatever else is just outright painful

    the thing that's quite important (to me at least) in keeping jp's honorific, imho, is that in most stories, the honorifics hints the changes and/or intimacy in the characters' relationship.

    while i prefer everything else that has proper english equivalent be translated accordingly, i do find what Dreams of Jianghu did for World of Cultivation is quite nice. thanks to that, now when i watch xuanhan drama adaptation, it makes a little bit easier and interesting to understand the hierarchy between the characters by hearing how they were addressed.
     
  17. Astaroth

    Astaroth empty

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    Honestly my opinion changes day by day and I often find myself coming back and changing something I was happy with before, then months later I might even change it back yet again...


    All I can really say is that I guess it depends a lot on the actual novels and how relevant the honorifics (or whatever it is) actually are and whether or not there's any good English equivalents for all similar terms. (The last one is pretty important imo, because you can't just decide to translate half of them and then keep the other half as transliterations.)


    Anyway, it seems a lot of things rarely gets right from the beginning so like I sort of hinted at you more or less have to go back again and again as you get further into the novel and constantly discover/create inconsistencies. (i.e. there's not much of a point to dwell over it in the beginning since chances are whatever you do you might just have to come back and change it later after having gotten further into the novel.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2020
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  18. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    I feel like it's a really up to you thingy, like...

    I usually prefer to have the honorifics, but sometimes it feels clunky and unnecessary. (To give an example, in a novel I was translating some time back, the MC hired a hunter to help her, and she called him Hunter-san the whole time... It really felt ugly to me to keep adding honorifics to that part. OTOH, I liked keeping honorifics on interactions between meaningful characters.)

    As for the weeby words... Well, I dunno, tbh I prefer onii-chan over big brother, because the former is affectionate, while the latter feels kinda distant... And stuff like onii-sama doesn't have a good equivalent.

    But well, some stuff needs to be translated of course, let's not have all according to the keikaku~
     
  19. Anlussom

    Anlussom Member

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    In Japanese, at least, the honorifics have grammatical function. So authors use them by default, even if that means there’s a mix of Japanese-style honorifics and ones that are used specifically to show rank, such as noble titles in a Western-style fantasy. This is really hard to translate well, especially if you don’t yet know the characters’ actual relationship. You can choose a style and then find it doesn’t work because of the way the original author writes later on.

    On the other hand, if there’s a mix of honorific styles in the original, it’s not like you’re committing some aesthetic sin by leaving in the -sama’s and -kun’s while translating the Highness's and Milord's.

    On the third hand, Japanese speakers use names and titles instead of "you" a lot. Translators should cut those out wherever it's still clear who's talking to whom.
     
  20. Night Ghost

    Night Ghost Well-Known Ghost Member

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    It depends on the story. If it's western themed story, remove the honorific. If it's japanese themed story, keep the honorific.
     
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