Question Difference between sect (宗) and gate (门)?

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by Koslov, May 5, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Koslov

    Koslov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2016
    Messages:
    777
    Likes Received:
    258
    Reading List:
    Link
    So I’ve seen novels use either one of these two characters, and sometimes in the same novel, with 宗门 referring to them all in general. What’s the difference here, exactly?
     
  2. canaria23

    canaria23 『  』

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2015
    Messages:
    9,498
    Likes Received:
    10,979
    Reading List:
    Link
    In terms organizational function, none.
     
  3. Lirikan

    Lirikan [Charming Mollusca] [Cephalopoda Gentleman]

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2018
    Messages:
    272
    Likes Received:
    273
    Reading List:
    Link
    Gate sound cooler
     
  4. Soren59

    Soren59 MTL Shill

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2017
    Messages:
    831
    Likes Received:
    515
    Reading List:
    Link
    Could be wrong but I don't think there's really much difference in context. Like academy vs. school.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
    nonononononono likes this.
  5. tahzib1451

    tahzib1451 Title?is it food?

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2017
    Messages:
    2,922
    Likes Received:
    2,779
    Reading List:
    Link
    sect sounds more like a cult....
     
  6. tides

    tides Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2017
    Messages:
    2,108
    Likes Received:
    739
    Reading List:
    Link
    kind of hard to explain but

    for the words outside of novels
    宗 is usually used for large schools while 门 is used when referring to someone entering a school under a teacher
    so 门 often refers to something like a school or classroom, and sometimes factions as well.

    similarly, 宗 is also often used to refer to large organizations that teaches many different things like a university that has many majors/departments

    in wuxia/xianxia tbh i dont see any difference and authors often like to butcher words up and separate their characters to create new "terms" and it's how many of the names of cultivation realms are created.

    cults are called 教, and basically all unorthodox teachings/sects are also called 教.
     
    Koslov and nyamachi like this.
  7. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2017
    Messages:
    3,635
    Likes Received:
    3,515
    Reading List:
    Link
    In general, words in the English language generally have very specialized terms that will sound awkward when used outside of their standard definitions. This is so much so that you can use words that are both grammatically and technically correct but still sound very wrong because they don't generate the correct tone or the context doesn't quite fit. The Chinese language doesn't have this limitation in general so it's a lot easier to be loosey-goosey with words and terms. What this means is that a Chinese term that doesn't have a direct English equivalent can be very difficult to translate well.

    门 literally means door and household, and it feels to me more like an extended family. When a woman marries into a family, she is said to enter the door (门) of their family estate and she is now part of their household. Likewise, a person who is part of a government or other large organization can have a patron helping him out. That person would also be considered part of that patron's "门".

    There are other terms out there like 派, 会, and 帮. 派 is probably the most popular of these and you should see it everywhere

    To be fair, that's also how fantasy terms work in for writers in every other language out there as well.

    As an addendum, all regular religions also use this term. As examples, Buddhism is 佛教 and Catholicism is 天主教.
     
  8. tides

    tides Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2017
    Messages:
    2,108
    Likes Received:
    739
    Reading List:
    Link
    i would say this is partially correct. 门 means gate or door. it never means family/household unless you pair it with 家, making it 家门.

    but note that both historically and today, even the words 家门 has never been used to refer to household or family and only the word 家 is used.

    家门 however, was used in opera to refer to the household and today it is used to introduce yourself.

    like i mentioned, 门 is however used to describe how you have entered someone's faction or gone under his tutelage and in wuxia, it's often used to portray smaller sects or groups of disciple/students who follow a teacher, which is also how the meaning of "household" can be inferred as there are many large families during ancient china but even then, the word 家 is still used instead of 门
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
  9. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2017
    Messages:
    3,635
    Likes Received:
    3,515
    Reading List:
    Link
    Yes, it's another good example of just how flexible individual words can be in Chinese. The obvious example is 杨门女将.
     
  10. tides

    tides Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2017
    Messages:
    2,108
    Likes Received:
    739
    Reading List:
    Link
    tbh i would not say that using 门 to mean family/house/household is correct as mentioned in my above post. the example you gave is also not very good since the yang family generals are based upon a historic collection written by someone about his friend (yang ye and another), which then became many opera plays. the usage of "门" here in the title is also more or less due to the popular opera plays which was very popular.

    but yes, it is something that character based languages can do and "create" new words/terms but if someone asked what the meaning of these words, i would never say that they are "correct"
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.